[MBTI General] Intuitives are overrated

[EJCC]

People should learn to discern between good and bad type descriptions and stop reacting to certain types of people based on those descriptions, a good type description being one that moves away from mystification and towards rationalization.

Part of the motivation of this thread, as you can see from the OP, is that all the sites and tests that TGO found were biased. You point out one good site, but if the first few sites that one is linked to are biased to the point of being off-putting, what will motivate them to continue learning about the system?

So when people say, most sites are biased, and that's a problem that needs to be solved -- that's what's being referred to. Things would be different if newbies were directed to GOOD descriptions right off the bat. If those good descriptions were the very first ones to show up on Google searches.

 

[greenfairy]

Your mom's overrated.

Out of touch with reality and unaware of what's going on around me? Story of my life.

Well, only at the worst of times.

Hey, some people get jobs doing philosophy! There are professors who got degrees in it and teach it and have a pretty good salary. If they can do it I can.

 

[EJCC]

Your mom's overrated.

SO'S YER FACE

Out of touch with reality and unaware of what's going on around me? Story of my life.

Well, only at the worst of times.

Hey, some people get jobs doing philosophy! There are professors who got degrees in it and teach it and have a pretty good salary. If they can do it I can.

It's interesting how this can vary, even within types. I know INFJs who have absolutely zero patience for philosophical discussion of any kind -- as if they only use their Ni for practical purposes. Then again I'm thinking of 1w2s here. Wondering if there's some sort of correlation here? 1w2 INFJs being more invested in getting things done in "the real world"?

 

[WALMART]

This is incorrect and shows a misunderstanding of what Sensing really is.

I admit to not having the most detailed understanding of Se, and would ask that those with better understanding be the ones to step forward here -- however I have a very good understanding of Si, and can safely say that Si has little to do with "what exists". It has to do with what you remember, what you know from past experience, what you have absorbed from any number of sources and consolidated to create your general worldview. I have said elsewhere on the forum and will say here as well that I am absolutely horrible at living "in the moment" -- 99% of the time, my mind has wandered to what I need to do, what will happen ten minutes from now, a day from now, years and years in advance -- or it has wandered back to things I have done, or witnessed, in the past. I'm about as bad with "sensing" as it relates to bodily needs as any average N on this forum.

As for S/N and the "advancement of humanity" -- you need only look at type descriptions, even biased ones, to find Sensors who have strived for that same advancement. SJs, for example, are very frequently the ones who call the emperor out for having no clothes, or who strive against injustice in some other form. More proof that the stereotype of SJs always being "establishmentarian" is incorrect. They are for whatever moral code they have found that they believe is the most "right" -- whether it be their family's, the establishment's, or something else they've found.

Well, as an ESTJ, you are not a "Sense type" as ascribed by Jung, but a rational, "Thinking type". Take Martin Luther King Jr, who Jung typed a "sensing feeler". He is not only a sense type, there are elements of rationality to his personality, and he made great strides for the advancement of humanity. So huzzah on that front.

I was reluctant to follow through with that post, not for the fact that I question its veracity, I just don't know how well it can be interpreted without a fair sense of bias in terms of valuations.

Bare in mind, I am a Buddhist. lol.

 

[yeghor]

Part of the motivation of this thread, as you can see from the OP, is that all the sites and tests that TGO found were biased. You point out one good site, but if the first few sites that one is linked to are biased to the point of being off-putting, what will motivate them to continue learning about the system?

So when people say, most sites are biased, and that's a problem that needs to be solved -- that's what's being referred to. Things would be different if newbies were directed to GOOD descriptions right off the bat. If those good descriptions were the very first ones to show up on Google searches.

Have you ever played an online MMORPG? There are multiple player classes in those games and there's always one or another class that comes across as overpowered to other classes so much that other classes lose enthusiasm about the game and start complaining and asking to the mods that the overpowered class be nerfed.

Urban Dictionary: nerf

The OP reminded me of those guys that ask from the admins that intuitives be nerfed. The thing is that we are not in an online MMORPG and intuitives and non-intuitives are not competing against each other and there's not anything to win and this is not a competition. So why ask for a nerf? Particularly, why not ask for sources as to accurate descriptions of types rather than complaining about types?

Of course there were troubled people in those MMORPGs that played those overpowered classes and taunted those they defeated with phrases like "pwned noob, sucker" etc. so I can understand the things that may have transpired between non-intuitives and intuitives including mistyped ones and the resultant resentment.

There are also players in those games who start taunting the now-nerfed classes so as to settle scores, get back at the other and vent-out previous resentments. It's a vicious cycle.

So I am against both versions of negative attitude.

 

[yeghor]

Oh my CGPA at graduation was about 2.90/4.00 by the way. So I am pretty mediocre when it comes to T stuff for instance. I think intuition is more about noticing patterns, possibilities and imagination.

 

[meowington]

Oh my CGPA at graduation was slightly below 2.90/4.00 by the way. So I am pretty mediocre when it comes to T stuff for instance. I think intuition is more about noticing patterns, possibilities and imagination.

Yeah it is. I've only started to develop the T stuff later on, from adolescence on (tertiary function for INFJs : Ti, tends to develop later, as you probably know).

On topic:
I'm convinced certain people have developed all the functions better than some others. And that some people are very weak regarding most if not all functions. It's all very individual. Not everyone is a stereotypical version of their type, eventhough those do exist plentiful.

 

[greenfairy]

SO'S YER FACE

It's interesting how this can vary, even within types. I know INFJs who have absolutely zero patience for philosophical discussion of any kind -- as if they only use their Ni for practical purposes. Then again I'm thinking of 1w2s here. Wondering if there's some sort of correlation here? 1w2 INFJs being more invested in getting things done in "the real world"?

Yeah I dunno, maybe. I'd say more personal E-types might be less into it as well, preferring art and emotional expression.

 

[prplchknz]

sometimes I think, humanity is over rated. But perhaps that's good. Because if we didn't think highly of ourselves we would've never existed as the first humans would've died out and not reproduced. I wonder how different the world would look? would another species have taken over?

 

[Retmeishka]

Let's find the building where the MBTI sacred documents are housed, and parade around in front of it with signs demanding equal appreciation for sensors. We'll find all the books that contain vaguely derogatory descriptions of sensors, and have the books revised and reprinted.

I swear I feel like this is the type of thing that would be necessary - the MBTI test is set in stone, and it still has the same exact wording that it had decades and decades ago when it was first created. You just can't get them to change a single sacred word on the test, even though I and others have complained that the wording on the test is confusing and misleading and makes sensors sound stupid, so we choose the intuitive answers instead and everyone gets labeled 'INTP.'

It would take a big 'information campaign' with the goal of changing people's perceptions of sensors.

Except I also agree with the people who say intuitives are unappreciated in real life. I wish I knew the answer to that eternal question, 'What job can I do?' If I were really going to make an information campaign about anything, I'd teach people in real life to appreciate intuitives when they find them, and, I dunno, pay them to just walk around chitchatting with the other employees who are working, and befriend them and have interesting conversations with them, because just being there entertaining people makes the workplace a better environment.

I work with two INFPs at my fast food job (along with many other people), and they fit in just fine and have no problem being realistic enough to do the job, but I strongly suspect it's because this particular workplace is primarily a Beta quadra workplace with lots of ISTJs who get along with them. The ENFP who worked there briefly - everyone hated him, and he quit/got fired after being there only a couple days. But I think it would have gone differently if he had worked at my *other* job where there are lots of Deltas - ESTJs and ISTPs.

Socionic quadras make a huge difference in how well people fit in in the workplace, and they make it much easier, or much harder, for sensors or intuitives to appreciate each other. I get along great with the two INFPs most of the time, until they are under extreme stress, if we're really busy or if something bad is happening, like if we're about to get an inspection - then suddenly the conflicts start happening, and the conflicts are always over the same issues, which never get resolved... When that happens, it's a moment when neither of us is appreciating the other.

I totally felt like sensors were described as inferior (I'm agreeing with the OP), until I read the descriptions in socionics. I know I say that all the time, but it never hurts to say it again. If you really want to understand how to appreciate particular types, regardless of which types they are, the best way to do it is to group them together with people in their own quadra.

 

[á´…eparted]

SO'S YER FACE

It's interesting how this can vary, even within types. I know INFJs who have absolutely zero patience for philosophical discussion of any kind -- as if they only use their Ni for practical purposes. Then again I'm thinking of 1w2s here. Wondering if there's some sort of correlation here? 1w2 INFJs being more invested in getting things done in "the real world"?

This is important. Granted I am an ENFJ but this still applies.

I'm like you where I test as pretty even with N/S, and when I read descriptions for S/N or test I often align with S more because I am very mistrusting of my intuition. It's usually right, but my fear of making errors is very strong so I opt to ignore it and put it on hold until I can gain some solidity to it. Really, I am just very perfectionistic and I want to be right/do the rignt thing. A la 1w2. Add in the fact that I just don't identify with Ne even slightly. It's very alien to me. Sort of you with "negative Ni" I must have "negative Ne" . Tests are a starting point. They are not the end all be all answer, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. Except maybe for "official" tests, but I have no experience with them as they cost money, so I question those two.

I also really don't like philosophical discussions. I just get so bored, and am like "ok, what is the practical application of this? What use is this? What is the point?". A lot of the time it gets wound up in defining things and the semantics of a word like "time" or whatever. Who the fuck cares. I don't. I don't care about that level of minutia and I want no part of it. It's annoying and way too much work. I get annoyed with the fact that stuff which is basically self evident gets questioned and I have to sit there and pick it apart. It's mentally a ton of work and I get zero enjoyment out of it. Do I exist? Pft. Ok, you can go talk about that. I'm not going down that semantic hell hole. Fun to think about, not to discuss most of the time. I'll enjoy philsophical discussions when they are more wholistic and there is more of an understanding/common ground.

Really this entire thread can be boiled down to unfair stereotypes attributed to either side. Further, inaccuracy with reported data (which is shotty at best) because much of it is self reported. In my opinion, there is no such thing as a special type, or a repressed type. All types have strengths and weaknesses, and it's nothing more than a theory of how people intake and output information. What happens beyond that is external and different from what the theory is. There are some patterns that emerge (which, as they are external and easily seen) and people wrong try and draw patterns from that. Hence, stereotypes form that makes things look bad. It's a problem of over-extrapolation.

By all accounts this sounds like S, but it isn't. Actually it's mostly my inferior Ti showing up, but that's another matter. Ni is definitely in play with how I think, but I don't apply it to stereotypical Ni things.

 

[The Great One]

Like I said, I haven't seen it happen here in a long time. That attitude isn't part of the "forum culture" anymore at least.

Your OP is also full of trite stereotypes about intuitives, ironically. People who live completely in their fantasy world are schizophrenics, not intuitives. I know how to tie my own shoes and do what I need to get where I want.

Yeah it happens more on PerC than it does on this site.

I don't agree that N is so bad. I would say my gut feelings are really good and the fact that I like fantasy may be hard on me, but at least my life isn't boring. Thinking in advance is also very good trait. I am not saying that there aren't bad sides, there are always good and bad sides, in N and S too.

I would agree that S may be more underrated. I personally love many S people as they are more 'alive' as living more in the moment. But I have really healthy S traits. I am able to let myself go and enjoy in a moment when with others, I just never loose focus on my plans. S people might not be worried about the future so much, but they could also have a healthy side of maybe having in mind what matters to them.

I think that S and N may be considered here too extremely. People are just complex, in a way we all have S and N, just depends which dominates and none of it has to be better than other. What makes a person better than another are that person's level of 'mastery'. I don't know if you get me. But there are smart people, some kill people and some are like Martin Luther King. The fact that someone is smart therefore doesn't make them necessarily 'better'.

Oh no. I think that N's are very good. I just think that S's are underrated.

 

[Romello]

I don't think they're overrated as much as they are less common than most people on these MBTI forums could be led to believe. Seriously, it irks me that like well over half of their members claim to be intutives and it's just so obvious by the way many of them type that they are indeed just a bunch of people with such fragile egos that they must consistently announce how bright or "out of the box" they are in order to feel a sense of special placement in the world without any real, honest investigations of their true personalities being taken into account. Then they begin to subtly demonize sensors, even though they very may well ones themselves, which leads to people with good sense questioning why these misguided "intutives" trump themselves up to be some kinds of gods among men.

 

[Agnes]

Oh no. I think that N's are very good. I just think that S's are underrated.

I think that extreme case of N is bad, where one is all the time somewhere else and not in reality. Extreme case of S is also bad, where one will all the time do something just so that he don't have to think about future. Supposingly N and S should be 'equal' value. But when you think of benefits of N compared to S, N do seem better. Maybe we just need more S understanding. But this is typical problem as with any MBTI opposite. E is better than I, N than S, T than F and J than P. Therefore I'm perfect type But the things is that everyone is individual. No matter the fact that people can share same color of hair or same MBTI type.

EDIT: N and S should balance each other in my opinion

 

[Lady_X]

i say fuck the whole lot of em

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

HITLER WAS AN INTUITIVE.

-------------------

That aside, I kind of agree. The first time I took the Myers-Briggs so many years ago, I tested as a Sensor because Intuitive questions seemed very la-dee-da, spacey, and impractical. Yuck, I'm not like THAT.

Problem is, I actually am like that. And I'd agree, I'm kinda worthless. Like,

- I chronically forget valuable items such as my umbrella, bag, and/or keys, multiple times every day.
- I can't memorize worth shit.
- I walk into random furniture and get all these random bruises without even knowing how it happened.
- I forget I'm hungry, feverish, whatever.
- I walk around so lost in fantasy that I'm oblivious to myself and others.
- I habitually over-estimate my odds ("I can eat, shower, get everything ready and make it to the airport in just one hour!").
- I habitually pop out with nonsense that no one else understands, and I spent the better part of my childhood being laughed at and rejected for being "different".
- I become inflexibly sure things happened that didn't actually happen and get myself in trouble for acting on this.
- I can't keep my room clean, and I spend most of my time being scattered and lazy.
- I AM SO UNPRODUCTIVE that it burns.
- I forget where I put my money and am at a loss on where that $500 went at the end of the month. I forget I even have bills to pay at times.

Don't even get me started on the hypochondria.

So what if I ace all my exams without putting in any effort? It's like I can't handle reality, which is just a little bit MORE important than exams. I don't think Sensors have these problems. I'm sure they have their own problems, but I test as a Sensor, and dammit, I think it's a great way to be. I get tired of the "Sensors are dumb" garbage, myself.

I mean I like being Ne-dom (despite everything), but I fail to see why Intuitives are made out to be "smarter". I'm one of those academically "smart" people who's actually dumb.

 

[Lady_X]

me too sanjuro it's the worst

no really

 

[reckful]

the MBTI test is set in stone, and it still has the same exact wording that it had decades and decades ago when it was first created. You just can't get them to change a single sacred word on the test, even though I and others have complained that the wording on the test is confusing and misleading and makes sensors sound stupid, so we choose the intuitive answers instead and everyone gets labeled 'INTP.'

The MBTI has been revised a number of times. The current "Step I" (Form M) is from 1998.

And your notion that the test has an N bias seems strikingly inconsistent with the fact that less than 30% of takers come out N. (It's the only one of the four dichotomies that isn't within 10% of 50/50.)

If what you view as the test's N bias was corrected, how much smaller a minority do you think the N's would be?

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

me too sanjuro it's the worst

no really

I know.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Your list resonates, [MENTION=18576]Sanjuro[/MENTION], esp these for me:

- I walk into random furniture and get all these random bruises without even knowing how it happened.

All the time. Have some right now.

- I habitually over-estimate my odds ("I can eat, shower, get everything ready and make it to the airport in just one hour!").

This is so true it hurts! For example, right now, I think I can paint the deck surface, see my Mom at the hospital for 2 hours, go to the garden centre, purchase and plant some perennials and finish the garden mulch. By 5pm. And even though I am sitting typing this right this second. I often joke it's a good thing I'm an optimist or I wouldn't get anything done!

- I habitually pop out with nonsense that no one else understands, and I spent the better part of my childhood being laughed at and rejected for being "different".

Yep. I could tell you a story from as far back as yesterday on this ... at least when you're older, rejection is less likely, and I care way less than I used to about that.

- I AM SO UNPRODUCTIVE that it burns.

Yes. On that note, off to get the deck stain ready.