Sinai-Mountain High? Holy Moses!

[Totenkindly]

omg.... this is just... I don't even know what to make of it.

Writing in the British Journal Time and Mind, Benny Shanon, an Israeli professor of cognitive philosophy, claims Moses was probably on psychedelic drugs when he received the Ten Commandments from God....

According to Shanon, a professor at Hebrew University, two naturally existing plants in the Sinai Peninsula have the same psychoactive components as ones found in the Amazon jungle and are well-known for their mind-altering capabilities. The drugs are usually combined in a drink called ayahuasca....

The full skinny is here.

 

[swordpath]

Is this surprising?

 

[Totenkindly]

I just can't believe how socially irresponsible it was for an 80-year-old man to be chugging "happy juice" right before going on a forty-year road trip.

Then again, it might explain his audacity in walking into the Pharaoh's court and telling him to let all the slaves go after 400 years of social oppression. Not even Lincoln was crazy enough to try.

 

[cafe]

I'm guessing the pop-news writers left out some vital pieces of the story because that seems like pretty thin evidence for a scholarly article.

 

[Totenkindly]

Oh. So we're back to asking for "evidence" now? What is this -- the 1980's?

 

[miss fortune]

well... that would explain a lot...

I always suspected that Revelations was an acid trip of St John the Divine's that he wrote down And it would make more sense to me that he was on drugs than that there was something amazingly supernatural occurring and nobody else saw it and there was no physical evidence left!

And a lot of shamans who consume hallucinogens for the sake of religious ceremonies are older gentlemen I do beleive!

 

[cafe]

Oh. So we're back to asking for "evidence" now? What is this -- the 1980's?

For some of us . . . maybe. Not that I, like, have an Inigo Montoya tee shirt on my Amazon wishlist or Degarmo and Key on iTunes or anything.

 

[swordpath]

Sheryl: [to Frank] He started snorting heroin.
Frank: [to Grandpa] You started snorting heroin?
Grandpa: [in response to Frank, aimed at Dwayne] Let me tell ya, don't do that stuff. When you're young, you're crazy to do that shit.
Frank: [to Grandpa] Well what about you?
Grandpa: [to Frank] What about me? I'm old. When you're old you're crazy not to do it.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Sounds interesting, although you'd wonder why the cocktail wasn't mentioned in the Bible at all, especially if it was revered as something mystical.

On a similar note, I once heard a theory that the prophets were all schizophrenics/bipolars. Sounds pretty plausible to me.

 

[Ojian]

Bull$h!t speculation!

This guy has some drug trip in the Amazon where he sees a Yucca plant with a halo over it, it reminds him of Moses, and Voila! he has a new theory. Now to find a plant in the Middle East that can cause hallucinations (like that would be hard) and he has all the evidence he needs.

Lets ignore everything we know about Moses and the Israelites, their stated Law and practices, because frankly he doesn't believe in it. But hey, if we can explain away the experiences of Moses (which he doesn't believe anyways), and by an outrageous idea that would be popular in this day-and-age, why not?

 

[swordpath]

It sounds more nonsense for what your counterargument would be:

"Bullshit! He saw god in the form of a burning bush, talked to him and received a set of rules from him."

A hallucinogen drug that brings about strong feelings of spirituality seems like a much more logical explanation. If the plants are in the region that would make even more sense. Not a bad speculation really.

 

[Nocapszy]

I'd say nubbishness is to blame. Drug nubs.



Nubbishness.

 

[zarc]

Sounds interesting, although you'd wonder why the cocktail wasn't mentioned in the Bible at all, especially if it was revered as something mystical.

They wouldn't give away all , if any, of their secrets and how to use them or else people would know how to do everything for themselves.

 

[Totenkindly]

They wouldn't give away all , if any, of their secrets and how to use them or else people would know how to do everything for themselves.

I don't know. It doesn't seem to be how things played out in other cultures, where rituals and substances were used/held in reverence. Usually it just gets turned into a "holy item."

In the case of the Jews, it was the Ark of the Covenant and the rituals/specifications of the Temple... coupled with the blood sacrifice and how oil was used. I am thinking if there were other things there, they would have been mentioned too.

At best, it still is just speculation... worth considering, but to claim it's true is overstepping evidence.

Interesting that, whatever Moses' experience was, he did not WANT to listen to the burning bush and argued with it. So he obviously believed it not to be a drug trip -- going back to egypt might have easily been a death sentence for him, if the story has any truth to it. If anything, he would have been hoping to dismiss it SOMEHOW... but couldn't find any reason to.

 

[zarc]

I don't know. It doesn't seem to be how things played out in other cultures, where rituals and substances were used/held in reverence. Usually it just gets turned into a "holy item."

Well, I was only referring to the Judeo-Christian bible/myths, not to any others. Nearly all religions are merely different interpretations of the same stories through past cross-cultural travels/sharing, even that of Moses'.

And what other evidence, aside from the bible/s do you speak of? There's no known physical evidence that Moses ever existed.

 

[Totenkindly]

Nearly all religions are merely different interpretations of the same stories through past cross-cultural travels/sharing, even that of Moses'.

I would qualify that better. (sorry, you are getting into my "quibble area!")

I think many of the more mythic stories (i.e., much from early Genesis) have similarities from culture to culture. Some, I am thinking, were even developed in order to purposefully contrast against a story that was already widely known.

Some of the others are more personal and specific... so it's like saying a modern day episode of Law and Order necessarily was derived from an old episode of Hill Street Blues... the similar topic matter means there will be some incidental story overlap and similar stories will not necessarily actually be derived from each other.

And what other evidence, aside from the bible/s do you speak of? There's no known physical evidence that Moses ever existed.

That is a problem, isn't it?

Archeology is confusing as well. Nothing is that clear, and little evidence has been found.

 

[faith]

Hm. I wish my hallucinations would produce something as reasonable as the Ten Commandments.

I spent a year and a half at Hebrew University. Some really good professors there. At least there's no lack of interesting ideas to discuss...

 

[sassafrassquatch]

Maybe It's just a story and none of it ever happened at all? Such pointless speculation.

 

[zarc]

I would qualify that better. (sorry, you are getting into my "quibble area!")

I think many of the more mythic stories (i.e., much from early Genesis) have similarities from culture to culture. Some, I am thinking, were even developed in order to purposefully contrast against a story that was already widely known.

I assumed it would be understood as myths/mythic stories as I mentioned bible/myths. As for Genesis mythic stories, there was already evdience that the mythic-stories existed within Sumerian myths (as it's claimed by some scholars that other religions took from it as well or rather cross-culturally shared/replaced-adopted them to their culture from that one and then others). Sumerians existed and were known as the first true civilsation dating back as far as 7000BC (maybe a bit further, I can't recall exactly.). Their myths, I think, 5000BC? I don't think they had the Moses mythic-story, though. One well known one is Noah's Arc or The Flood Myth. Several cultures have the same one, some written nearly the same/or using their own names/and some with differently written but have the same theme. If I'm off about anything, please do tell, I'm running on old Si

That is a problem, isn't it?

Archeology is confusing as well. Nothing is that clear, and little evidence has been found.

It is a problem, maybe for some who care for it or try to understand better, but it's fascinating too!

 

[reason]

"Just because I imagined it doesn't mean that it wasn't true"