I wrote this earlier in the day…when I hadn’t had enough coffee…and then couldn’t log on again in order to get it posted (am I the only one having difficulty accessing TypeC lately?). Now I am questioning its relevancy but whatevs.
I never thought of my 5w4 as being ‘unfun’. Never. I mean, I am surrounded by 7s irl and, as you know, am somehow strongly 7 myself…and I know that, at least where my small sample is concerned, interesting = fun.
I mean, again, at least with regards to the 7s I know…they create their own fun by making it interesting to themselves. I do this too. I can make going to the grocery store interesting. Or doing laundry interesting. Or sitting in a waiting room interesting…in my own mind. I can entertain myself in my own mind and do not need the SO wearing a lampshape at the party in order to experience this (although whoa…I will say that would have been extraordinarily interesting to have seen).
The only challenge I faced in this regard was how scheduled everything had to be. I can’t speak for all 7s but I believe many 7s know there is much ‘interest’ to be had when you abandon the ‘planned schedule’ (just a teeny tiny bit) every once and a while…but the 5w4 in my life basically, for whatever reason, seemed completely unable to do this. I would joke (in my mind)…’from 6:14 – 6:16 we will read the menu’ and so on. Obviously, I do not think all 5s are like this.
I also think the e5 in my life was so/sp and could become a little arrogant. That arrogance was the most painful, hurtful, challenging…and I think would be challenging for many 7s.
1 so true! i think i'm also measuring multiple things unclearly. i think so types, e7s included, often align quite a bit more with the social reality than with sx or sp types. meaning, their sense of fun often feels more closely linked to what is considered fun by the majority. yes--lampshades. i don't know if this is true, but it is my hypothesis. they are usually diffuse enough to pick up the majority rules culture pretty well. but equally possible is that i just don't understand what e7s feel like internally, and i misinterpret them in a way that is based on my own insecurities (group phobia in the sense of ultimately feeling isolated from the majority of groups, especially large groups, most of the time; and also how the group has so much power to define your value, to not see you as you are). i just don't know how to measure without ranking and hierarchy, but e7s believe ardently in heterarchy.
maybe more interestingly than what i said here, tho, is how awesome e7 types are at making everything a game. not even a game that is won or lost, but just fun, challenging, enthusiastic, exciting, and novel. if "too boring" is not a dampener as long as one is interesting and capable of constant evolution, creativity, and forward motion, then what are the big dampeners? more about pessimism vs optimism than unfun vs fun? what about too serious vs too light? maybe this also has to do with subtype, and an so vs an sx would react differently.
2 the schedule thing to me is really funny. i don't think i'm that bad, but i do feel entitled at times and i need to combat that actively. my plan-making, time management, procrastination, and needing to really gear up to get motivated sometimes contribute to this sense of entitlement. just a sense of how things should go rather than shutting the fuck up and experiencing life in a more present, here and now, unique differences that make up THIS, right-brained way. this seems like the j/p split, and i'll admit that i imagine e1s and e5s are also probably the most annoying at this (somewhat critical sense of how things should be???). maybe this is why e7s, caught in between them, are the most opposite and most fun!!!
3 how did you interpret the arrogance? critical? judgy? focused on exteriors rather than on the subjective experience of a person? the empathy we feel relies on us seeing the extroverted context, but we're better off when we work a sense of ourselves and our own experience into the situation. it helps promote us reaching a better critical equilibrium between self and other, between expectations and acceptance. it helps us avoid being too critical of ourselves but also of others. i started out as very critical of others but the w4 kind of kicked my ass and turned it inward. when it's most tumultuous, it feels like being stuck in a revolving door of other critique and self critique. shhhhh breathe.
I might have something I can say to this but are you able to ask it again in a different way? I want to be clear on what you are asking.
meh, i'm just caught up in my own jargon because it's what i use to think with. it's mainly the exteriority vs interiority thing of PiJe vs PeJi. i'm seeing the outcomes of the plays and using all these "extroverted"/"objective" "facts" to Je statistically analyze/organize them. the alternative is to have spent time experiencing the plays and/or experiencing the process designing the plays and then seeing someone else do it and KNOW their plays based on the conflicts and goals you discovered when experiencing the process yourself, rather than using this Je sorting technique heuristic.
it makes the process (communication, conflict resolution) sometimes convoluted when we can assume something way different as the motivation for an action or outcome plan. i sometimes force people to communicate with me and throw all my fishing hooks into the water to see what sticks. i really like being on the same page, or of having my understanding be accurate. we j types rely on external consistency too much to read situations and p types rely to much on their own motives and behaviors projected into the subjective position of others. the p types in my life show me a world from the inside of things, of experience, that blows my mind. it's really amazing, it provides a support structure that helps me reconstruct interiors through conversation when i wouldn't be able to do it by myself. it immediately checks my occasional tendencies for arrogance or aloofness, because others help me see my s.o. or the person i am struggling with from a centered, experiential perspective situated where they are rather than merely as a confluence of external forces and as something swept up in that expression/co-articulation (of something completely outside of any "who this person is" sense--ok i might be making this too extreme, but this is the fundamental tension).