your mental illness is NOT an excuse to be an asshole

[kyuuei]

can i say as someone who has had bad paranoia and some delusions and what might be called hallucinations, i usually don't react to them and if i do its not in an attention seeking way it's not like me going omg you're trying to kill me i have to harm you. it's more like i'm gonna avoid you and be really scared but if i say something people will think i'm crazy and you will deny your intent. Ie 90% of the time people don't know what's going on at worse people either think i'm anxious/depressed or on drugs/alchol. I'm sure some people do react dramatically to that stuff i just don't, or if i do i'm usually crying and not really able to say it so you still wouldn't know. the only person i've met who did that turned out to be a histrionic who was faking. everyone else, and i was in treatment for 6 months with somepeople who were worse than me their reactions were a lot more subtle then hers, and it could be easy to mistake that reaction being caused by something else if you didn't know like just a bad day. if anything most of them didn't sit around going i have x so i get a free pass. most of goes do i have x? no i can't wait maybe i do. no that stranger online that doesn't know me is right i don't have anything wrong doctors were wrong, they were trying to trick me. but that being said i try not to be an asshole, sometimes i am but so is everybody on occasion, ill or not. and its easier for me to express my self in writing at times

and the histronic really fucked with me, i know i'm not suppose to let others effect me but her actions really did.

Everyone can be assholes without meaning to be.. Everyone's perceptions are different, so people in my social circle can think an action is awesome, and someone else can think it is awful.. and they're both right. The OP is definitely referring to the histrionic you mentioned.. people who have self awareness, and have the ability to reign in control, but actively decide not to do so. That kind of behavior is more toxic to a situation for both people with mental illnesses and for people who are socializing with/living around them. It hurts mental health people who have active phases/attacks/situations happening to them, and it hurts the people who might otherwise not be burned out on empathy and support in situations. It is a difficult thing for people to choose not to be offended by an offensive situation or gesture.. and when you deal with faked attacks, melodrama and people just generally faking the funk and using their diagnosis as a crutch on a regular basis, the reality is even if you WANT to be more empathetic and have a logical train of thought, you get burned out and .. just can't even.

 

[magpie]

I'm unsure of where your hostility is coming from? You posed the question "If mental illness patients can't be assholes, who truly can?" if I read you correctly... and my response is simply that even when people DO have legitimate "excuses" the reaction is still the same.. To me, no one has an excuse, no one has a right to be an asshole. Some people cannot help it, truly have no self awareness of their behavior in the moment (like my example), and even still it is deemed inappropriate... not only and simply because I'm the brunt of the behavior (though that is a part of it), but that it is not beneficial at all for the patient itself to allow the behavior from mentally ill patients. People without self awareness need to constantly be reoriented towards self awareness.

And if those people have a realm of 'unacceptable behavior' then anyone else NOT currently going through things like hallucinations, delirium, panic attacks, and extreme manic swings while not in treatment certainly don't get more wiggle room.

If your anger with me is with my response in a different thread, confirmation bias leads that one and that's an entirely different discussion. My point in that thread is not that EVERYONE does that, but it is a thing I have noticed with both my own family getting treatment and on the other side trying to help people get treatment. Self fulfilling prophecies and confirmation bias take over.. and people think it is pointless, they think it is stupid, they go into it without wanting to be there. If you don't want to be there, your attitude will reflect it, and usually I've found psychology is a two way street, someone who has no will to be there simply will not receive much benefit from treatment regardless of how awesome the psychologist may be. You've got to want to be there. I don't see why that point gets so much hostility either.

I wasn't saying if mentally ill people can't be assholes, who can. I was pointing out that a large amount of things are blamed on mental illness at the convenience of society at large while at the same time mentally ill people are told to take personal responsibility for their actions (as they should, if personal responsibility wasn't simultaneously a way to blame things on mentally ill people at the convenience of society). So mentally ill people are in the unique position of having tons of responsibility while also having very few rights. This isn't what the OP was talking about. The OP wasn't talking about actual mentally ill people, from what I can now understand. She was talking about people who do shitty things and then say, oh well, I have a mental illness, so... Or people who do have a mental illness but choose to do particular shitty things that they could have chosen not to do and then blame it on their mental illness when that was not a factor in their decision making. (Sorry it took me so long to understand this, OP).

In your example, the issue isn't really that the man is mentally ill. Sure, his inhibitions disappeared because he was having a manic phase. But if this is a common trait for men with young female nurses then maybe it has to do with how we as a society react to male entitlement. Maybe we should start telling men that their behaviour towards women is innapropriate, not just mentally ill men who sometimes have less inhibitions or feel really powerful from mania.

And see, that's where you unconsciously do give people who aren't going through delerium, hallucinations, panic attacks, etc, more wiggle room. Because their issues aren't unconsciously displayed for you to see and react to and condemn. People who are behaving badly who don't have mental illness symptoms are reacted to much more sympathetically than people who are behaving badly who do have mental illness symptoms.

You're the same person in both threads and clearly you've not changed very much in the course of a year, so why shouldn't I bring up a different thread?

 

[prplchknz]

Everyone can be assholes without meaning to be.. Everyone's perceptions are different, so people in my social circle can think an action is awesome, and someone else can think it is awful.. and they're both right. The OP is definitely referring to the histrionic you mentioned.. people who have self awareness, and have the ability to reign in control, but actively decide not to do so. That kind of behavior is more toxic to a situation for both people with mental illnesses and for people who are socializing with/living around them. It hurts mental health people who have active phases/attacks/situations happening to them, and it hurts the people who might otherwise not be burned out on empathy and support in situations. It is a difficult thing for people to choose not to be offended by an offensive situation or gesture.. and when you deal with faked attacks, melodrama and people just generally faking the funk and using their diagnosis as a crutch on a regular basis, the reality is even if you WANT to be more empathetic and have a logical train of thought, you get burned out and .. just can't even.

i agree. its really hard to explain to people who haven't experienced what i have, just like you probably can't explain some things you've experienced in a way i'd actually understand. so instead of reacting to what might or might not be real and then getting into an argument on how you're just crazy and having what you experience invalidated it's actually easier to stay quiet around others about that shit. but at the same time you really want to talk about it, but know you can't because of the arguments and the melodrama people that cause others to go oh you're faking you just want attention. which turns into maybe i am faking and it doesn't matter what your therapist or doctor says there's always that feeling of i'm faking. i'm saying to much sorry.

does this make sense? I feel like it does.

 

[kyuuei]

I wasn't saying if mentally ill people can't be assholes, who can. I was pointing out that a large amount of things are blamed on mental illness at the convenience of society at large while at the same time mentally ill people are told to take personal responsibility for their actions (as they should, if personal responsibility wasn't simultaneously a way to blame things on mentally ill people at the convenience of society). So mentally ill people are in the unique position of having tons of responsibility while also having very few rights.

This is the way with most illnesses. Mentally ill people don't get less rights--they just have less opportunity to stretch out the limits. They have to be very actively aware of their limits and triggers... but everyone who has to deal with any disorder does. It is a common thing. I suppose if you looked at it from a rights/responsibilities dichotomy, I have free reign to eat sugar while my diabetic father has very little rights and a lot of responsibility to refrain from sugar. But really it isn't a dichotomy. I still have to have responsibility, and my father still has the RIGHT to eat what he wants while choosing to decline. No one took away his right to choose what he eats... but he's sort of pigeon holed into his position. So is true with any illness. It isn't that unique of a concept.. but mental health is a very unique category.

This isn't what the OP was talking about. The OP wasn't talking about actual mentally ill people, from what I can now understand. She was talking about people who do shitty things and then say, oh well, I have a mental illness, so... Or people who do have a mental illness but choose to do particular shitty things that they could have chosen not to do and then blame it on their mental illness when that was not a factor in their decision making. (Sorry it took me so long to understand this, OP).

Right. This is what we're talking about here.

In your example, the issue isn't really that the man is mentally ill. Sure, his inhibitions disappeared because he was having a manic phase. But if this is a common trait for men with young female nurses then maybe it has to do with how we as a society react to male entitlement. Maybe we should start telling men that their behaviour towards women is innapropriate, not just mentally ill men who sometimes have less inhibitions or feel really powerful from mania.

I mean... we do. All the time. There are whole movements where people are trying to constantly show and fix the social trends right now with their actions and words and media. I've been a part of more than one of them for some time now. And yeah, it is a reflection of society as a whole that this mental illness manifests commonly in this way. But I can't fix the whole world by myself--trust me, I wish I could. But you're right, his mania is not attached to him masturbating. He feels powerful, and overly confident, and he feels like he can do whatever he wants to whomever he wants. What I can do is set boundaries and let that guy know it doesn't matter what he's got going on, that him masturbating is a decision he is making that isn't attached to mania in and of itself and it is not an appropriate one to make. But my whole example was to show that this guy was in active treatment, deep in a manic phase... and that there are people who somehow feel like they have the right to make bad decisions that affect others just because they have an illness, and that they should somehow not have any consequences because of some magic mental illness clause.

And see, that's where you unconsciously do give people who aren't going through delerium, hallucinations, panic attacks, etc, more wiggle room. Because their issues aren't unconsciously displayed for you to see and react to and condemn. People who are behaving badly who don't have mental illness symptoms are reacted to much more sympathetically than people who are behaving badly who do have mental illness symptoms.

I don't think we're disagreeing here.. my previous posts have reflected this exactly.. if I'm giving people in treatment and in attack-modes certain parameters for their own benefit and those are the guys that REALLY need support and understanding.. I'm not going to give the guys we're talking about above MORE wiggle room. I'm going to provide less. Because the situation isn't calling for more wiggle room--they're going to take advantage of whatever inches they can get. They need stricter parameters from others to show that people are not going to just tolerate garbage being slung at them. And frequently, that's hard to judge because you do have people great at faking, and you can't be in someone's head.

You're the same person in both threads and clearly you've not changed very much in the course of a year, so why shouldn't I bring up a different thread?

Well, because it can easily derail this thread.. and that other thread is a more appropriate place to talk about it, because that's where the subject matter is, so it won't be derailing anything there.

 

[kyuuei]

i agree. its really hard to explain to people who haven't experienced what i have, just like you probably can't explain some things you've experienced in a way i'd actually understand. so instead of reacting to what might or might not be real and then getting into an argument on how you're just crazy and having what you experience invalidated it's actually easier to stay quiet around others about that shit. but at the same time you really want to talk about it, but know you can't because of the arguments and the melodrama people that cause others to go oh you're faking you just want attention. which turns into maybe i am faking and it doesn't matter what your therapist or doctor says there's always that feeling of i'm faking. i'm saying to much sorry.

does this make sense? I feel like it does.

Yeah, it makes total sense. Honestly, it is on people without mental illnesses to do research and figure out faking vs real attacks.. but a good sign of fakers are people who won't go get treatment. (Not always.. I've seen attention-seeking behavior where treatment makes it real for others and so they get more attention and get addicted to using up free resources and attention and days off of work. It's more rare, but it happens.) Fakers tend to feed off of the energy they get from the issue they're creating.. it doesn't feel negative to them. People who think you're faking or exaggerating when you've got something real going on aren't good people to be around during those times. You keep on trucking on girl.

 

[prplchknz]

Yeah, it makes total sense. Honestly, it is on people without mental illnesses to do research and figure out faking vs real attacks.. but a good sign of fakers are people who won't go get treatment. (Not always.. I've seen attention-seeking behavior where treatment makes it real for others and so they get more attention and get addicted to using up free resources and attention and days off of work. It's more rare, but it happens.) Fakers tend to feed off of the energy they get from the issue they're creating.. it doesn't feel negative to them. People who think you're faking or exaggerating when you've got something real going on aren't good people to be around during those times. You keep on trucking on girl.

yeah but sometimes it's hard to get treatment read me and [MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION]'s wall conversation and you'll see what I mean. and i had a bad semester because of my stuff and not accepting yet i still managed to pass 2 of my classes, i also refused to tell the professors what was going on, out of the stigma(?) that other people make up shit to get out of work. I accepted 2 of my f's and lot of people will say you can use your dx to get out of things, I don't like to, if i fuck up i fuck up and ihave to take responsibility. I restarted meds recently and i feel like they're working at least i'm slowly starting to feel better on them. I'm trying to be ok but the stigma and the fakers and the unsuredness of it all doesn't help and i just want ice cream and a hug. I try really hard and after this last episode my mom said that she's scared about my ability to after do full time work, but i know i have to work towards that. because one of my triggers is stress, and I did not like hearing that.

 

[magpie]

This is the way with most illnesses. Mentally ill people don't get less rights--they just have less opportunity to stretch out the limits. They have to be very actively aware of their limits and triggers... but everyone who has to deal with any disorder does. It is a common thing. I suppose if you looked at it from a rights/responsibilities dichotomy, I have free reign to eat sugar while my diabetic father has very little rights and a lot of responsibility to refrain from sugar. But really it isn't a dichotomy. I still have to have responsibility, and my father still has the RIGHT to eat what he wants while choosing to decline. No one took away his right to choose what he eats... but he's sort of pigeon holed into his position. So is true with any illness. It isn't that unique of a concept.. but mental health is a very unique category.

This isn't what I was talking about. Mentally ill people do get less rights. This is seperate than a diabetic person not being able to eat sugar. That is not what I mean by rights or responsibility. I'm talking about actual rights. Like civil rights.

I mean... we do. All the time. There are whole movements where people are trying to constantly show and fix the social trends right now with their actions and words and media. I've been a part of more than one of them for some time now. And yeah, it is a reflection of society as a whole that this mental illness manifests commonly in this way. But I can't fix the whole world by myself--trust me, I wish I could. But you're right, his mania is not attached to him masturbating. He feels powerful, and overly confident, and he feels like he can do whatever he wants to whomever he wants. What I can do is set boundaries and let that guy know it doesn't matter what he's got going on, that him masturbating is a decision he is making that isn't attached to mania in and of itself and it is not an appropriate one to make.

I agree with this.

But my whole example was to show that this guy was in active treatment, deep in a manic phase... and that there are people who somehow feel like they have the right to make bad decisions that affect others just because they have an illness, and that they should somehow not have any consequences because of some magic mental illness clause.

I disagree with this. I know that one person can't change the world, etc, etc, but in my opinion you're approaching it from the wrong perspective. I don't think he feels like he has the right to make bad decisions because he has an illness, I feel like he feels he has the right to make bad decisions because he feels entitled to it. And so do lots of people. Lots of people feel entitled to their bad decisions. It isn't a magical mental illness clause.

I don't think we're disagreeing here.. my previous posts have reflected this exactly.. if I'm giving people in treatment and in attack-modes certain parameters for their own benefit and those are the guys that REALLY need support and understanding.. I'm not going to give the guys we're talking about above MORE wiggle room. I'm going to provide less. Because the situation isn't calling for more wiggle room--they're going to take advantage of whatever inches they can get. They need stricter parameters from others to show that people are not going to just tolerate garbage being slung at them. And frequently, that's hard to judge because you do have people great at faking, and you can't be in someone's head.

Your previous posts have not reflected this. Support and understanding is wiggle room. You need to be less concerned with who is faking and who isn't. You aren't the judge, jury and executioner. You don't have the tools or capacity to decide who is or isn't faking and why. You can't be in someone else's head. Statements like "if someone exhibits x behaviour, then they don't truly have x illness" or "people with x illness don't talk about it, so you can tell the fakers by how much they draw attention to themselves" are qualifying statements meant to regulate behaviour, make people doubt themselves, and reward people for complying with acceptable and unobtrusive behaviour specifications.

Fuck that. Let's talk about it. Why do we have to qualify things? Why do we have to fit into categories to experience legitimate suffering? Who cares? Let's just all be the best fakers we can be.

 

[Amargith]

The thing is..how does one distinguish between someone who uses their illness as a crutch and someone who is struggling but still making bad decisions because they're well...a) still learning how to make those decisions right - kind of like people who are still learning how to pick a mate that's right for them and keep picking the same type of person who is bad for them, and b) aren't ready yet to address their illness, or that particular behavioral part of their illness because they're still clearing out some other inner demons on the road there? If you're someone who has avoidance issues, it becomes really hard to ask for help to address your illness from a shrink. That in and of itself becomes an a) situation where you run circle till you are in fact ready to step into a shrink's office and only then can you get started on the real doozy in your life.

And unfortunately, the two situations also combine - if you're afraid to address your fear and are still working through that avoidance, it becomes really easy to just have moments where you throw your hands up in the air and give up and instead feel entitled instead to some support from the outside world - and that support is actually crucial for them to recharge and go at it again. Or, worse, someone who denies it completely because they're not sure how to even get started on something and are so stuck within themselves due to the shame of that that they don't dare to even acknowledge it to themselves, let alone others. To them, that kind of entitlement is a godsend. But despite kidding themselves, they're still miserable, wrecked with shame, guilt and anguish and often chronically stressed / depressed.

Usually the tough love approach works best, ime, on those that have a temporary relapse but who've already shown promise and are actually capable of doing the work. Giving someone who is ashamed and doesn't know where to get started the tough love approach tends to only make them more defensive and entitled, since that essential support gets internalised into shame. Again, that's based on the stories Ive been told and the things I've observed

So, where do you draw the line? Which ones do you accommodate just a little to give them a little nudge and which ones actually need to be bitchslapped a bit?

 

[Poki]

The thing is..how does one distinguish between someone who uses their illness as a crutch and someone who is struggling but still making bad decisions because they're well...a) still learning how to make those decisions right - kind of like people who are still learning how to pick a mate that's right for them and keep picking the same type of person who is bad for them, and b) aren't ready yet to address their illness, or that particular behavioral part of their illness because they're still clearing out some other inner demons on the road there? If you're someone who has avoidance issues, it becomes really hard to ask for help to address your illness from a shrink. That in and of itself becomes an a) situation where you run circle till you are in fact ready to step into a shrink's office and only then can you get started on the real doozy in your life.

And unfortunately, the two situations also combine - if you're afraid to address your fear and are still working through that avoidance, it becomes really easy to just have moments where you throw your hands up in the air and give up and instead feel entitled instead to some support from the outside world - and that support is actually crucial for them to recharge and go at it again. Or, worse, someone who denies it completely because they're not sure how to even get started on something and are so stuck within themselves due to the shame of that that they don't dare to even acknowledge it to themselves, let alone others. To them, that kind of entitlement is a godsend. But despite kidding themselves, they're still miserable, wrecked with shame, guilt and anguish and often chronically stressed / depressed.

Usually the tough love approach works best, ime, on those that have a temporary relapse but who've already shown promise and are actually capable of doing the work. Giving someone who is ashamed and doesn't know where to get started the tough love approach tends to only make them more defensive and entitled, since that essential support gets internalised into shame. Again, that's based on the stories Ive been told and the things I've observed

So, where do you draw the line? Which ones do you accommodate just a little to give them a little nudge and which ones actually need to be bitchslapped a bit?

Effort deserves no bitch slap....after time you see lack of effort deserves bitch slap. Both require something other then an instant quick judgement.

 

[kyuuei]

This isn't what I was talking about. Mentally ill people do get less rights. This is seperate than a diabetic person not being able to eat sugar. That is not what I mean by rights or responsibility. I'm talking about actual rights. Like civil rights.

Once I would agree with you. But civil law is actually really great for mentally ill patients. We've come a long way. The 'rights' mental illnesses struggle against lately are socially based--perceptions and reactions of others. But, again, this has nothing to do with the OP itself.

I disagree with this. I know that one person can't change the world, etc, etc, but in my opinion you're approaching it from the wrong perspective. I don't think he feels like he has the right to make bad decisions because he has an illness, I feel like he feels he has the right to make bad decisions because he feels entitled to it. And so do lots of people. Lots of people feel entitled to their bad decisions. It isn't a magical mental illness clause.

No.. He doesn't feel entitled to masturbate in public. He creates this excuse subconsciously for himself during his manic phase. Like I said before, no one taught him that it's okay to just do that in front of someone he's never met. Even mysogynistic men have socially known boundaries. It may not be a conscious excuse, but he creates one for himself in that moment. But like I said, my example was just one.

You don't have the tools or capacity to decide who is or isn't faking and why. You can't be in someone else's head. Statements like "if someone exhibits x behaviour, then they don't truly have x illness" or "people with x illness don't talk about it, so you can tell the fakers by how much they draw attention to themselves" are qualifying statements meant to regulate behaviour, make people doubt themselves, and reward people for complying with acceptable and unobtrusive behaviour specifications.

I feel like you're reaching for straws. There are literal quotes above of me saying it is difficult to tell at times, you can't be in someone's head, that these examples are not comprehensive, etc. etc. etc. If you're just wanting to be hostile towards me, then I'll end the conversation here.

People have to experience legitimate suffering because of situations like prpl's.. it makes the people actually suffering far worse--to the point they can't handle it.. vs just letting the people who need the attention and understanding get it so that no one burns out.

 

[kyuuei]

So, where do you draw the line? Which ones do you accommodate just a little to give them a little nudge and which ones actually need to be bitchslapped a bit?

It all boils down to knowing the person, or the situation. If you've seen a situation again, and again, and again.. you can get a pretty good lead on things. It might not be 100%, but it doesn't have to be. There is practicality in observing repeatable behavior. Like in my example on PTSD, where the guys make hallucination excuses to get out of A&B charges, but when I say I'm going to call the cops anyways because they aren't safe they suddenly back out because they're scared of getting committed and they know that wasn't what was really going on. It's a fairly safe bet because typically people who have been diagnosed with PTSD aren't going to show it off in situations like that--stupid decisions that could result in serious consequences... and typically don't manifest otherwise. Even if I don't know the guy intimately, I can pretty much tell an E-4 in engineering that went in the 13th wave of OIF soldiers have an extremely low chance of actually firing on the enemy.. and I can tell that guy is being a douche, and his friends all say he acts like a douche when he's drunk vs just being douchey at random times like 4th of July. Ya know? Pieces fall in place.

Generally speaking, I give strangers the benefit of the doubt because it's easier, and everyone else as I get to know them I look for traits that should either garner increased empathy or decreased empathy.

 

[magpie]

So, where do you draw the line? Which ones do you accommodate just a little to give them a little nudge and which ones actually need to be bitchslapped a bit?

Why is it down to you to accomodate (or bitchslap) people at all? Unwelcome and unwanted help or advice is not a favor. It's unwelcome. If someone is not ready to receive help or advice, has not reached out to you, or has shown no signs that they are interested in receiving help from you, then don't give it to them. We all seem perfectly capable of understanding this in people without mental illnesses, but with mentally ill people we immediately want to step in despite the fact that we are often not wanted, and then label people as ungrateful and difficult when we aren't well received.

Give people time. There's no rush. People are allowed to process their emotions at their own pace, with lots of pitfalls and hurdles along the way. They're allowed to feel bad without your help or anyone else's being forced on them. Let people who are close to the person who feels bad and want to help and know what works and care about the outcome do the prodding, if they want to do the prodding. They don't have to. You don't have to be in a shrink's office to start working through the issues in your life.

 

[Poki]

Since we got on the topic of fakers...people who feel they need to be fake for attention and such need help also. So faker or not...go get help. A professional should be able to recognize what you need help with by what you say and how you respond to stuff.

 

[Ivy]

It's not always a matter of stepping in or giving advice when it would be easy not to. Sometimes the behavior affects other people and boundaries need to be drawn and enforced. When someone's behavior encroaches on my boundaries, they are going to hear from me about it. I don't really think of it as a "bitchslap" exactly, but I don't just let that shit continue. If I know or suspect that they struggle with mental illness that might inform the manner in which I let them know that they have encroached on my boundaries. But them having a mental illness does not mean that they get to do so unimpeded.

 

[Lark]

I know that this is a board that touches on psychology topics and that a lot of us here have a mental health issue or two... people with mental health issues tend to be interested in psychology and tangential topics and that makes sense. This isn't a complaint about everyone with mental health issues because that'd make me a hypocrite.

This IS a complaint about people who act like assholes and then turn around and say "well, I have ____ issue, so I can't help it!"

Such a fucking cop out and it makes everyone else with mental health issues look worse as well and guess what? We don't NEED that because people already have their prejudices thanks to pop culture portrayals Most people learn to behave in a manner where they don't go around trampling on other people just because they feel shitty or super duper awesome or anything of the sort at the time... and most of us have the balls (or ovaries) to apologize if we realize that we've been an ass.

Yes, I know that it can be hard sometimes when it feels like your own brain is your enemy, or when you become somewhat paranoid about the motives of others or see very little hope in the world... it sucks and I understand that... I deal with it myself. However, I also realize that it's not anybody else's fault that I feel that way and I take a step back and put extra effort into not taking it out on other people. Sometimes I have to reread things a few times before hitting post and sometimes I just don't post much at all and mostly lurk. I know that I'm not the only one who has to put in some extra effort from time to time and it just feels like it undermines that a bit every time someone uses mental illness as an excuse.

So please, don't use your mental illness as an excuse to treat others as a jerk because there are a lot of members on here who manage to behave in a perfectly non-asshole manner despite also having problems, and every time you do that, you're adding one more chip to the negative stereotypes pile

I think that people use a lot of different things as licence for behaviour that they wouldnt give anyone else a pass for.

I dont think its a good thing because whatever your troubles most people dont make a distinction between the behaviour and the person responsible, you arent going to get a lot of people judging the sin and not the sinner or a lot of people judging the singer and not the song etc. So if you act with licence, whatever your circumstances, you're holding yourself back and yourself down.

Its something that I think about minorities or oppressed people all the time, depending on context or circumstances I can easily fit both categories, change that context and circumstances and I dont and am the majority or privileged. I dont give myself a pass and I dont do others. If I do its as part of an immediacy issue, like to de-escalate potential outbursts or violence, its not a favour and its not something anyone would or should relish.

 

[magpie]

Once I would agree with you. But civil law is actually really great for mentally ill patients. We've come a long way. The 'rights' mental illnesses struggle against lately are socially based--perceptions and reactions of others. But, again, this has nothing to do with the OP itself.

We have come a long way from keeping mentally ill people in small cages and drilling holes in their skulls I suppose. Though technically mentally ill people are still subject to legal imprisonment, beating, restraint, ECT, forced medication, psychosurgery, and I might be forgetting some things. But yes, clearly the most pressing issue is society based perceptions.

No.. He doesn't feel entitled to masturbate in public. He creates this excuse subconsciously for himself during his manic phase. Like I said before, no one taught him that it's okay to just do that in front of someone he's never met. Even mysogynistic men have socially known boundaries. It may not be a conscious excuse, but he creates one for himself in that moment. But like I said, my example was just one.

He doesn't feel entitled to masturbate in public because when he's not manic his mania isn't causing him to loose his inhibitions. What does it mean when men who aren't manic masturbate in public? Do they all have some sort of mental illness we can just give them? His excuse is his entitlement, like everyone's excuse is their entitlement. Except it's easier for him because of his mania. We really are going in circles at this point.

I feel like you're reaching for straws. There are literal quotes above of me saying it is difficult to tell at times, you can't be in someone's head, that these examples are not comprehensive, etc. etc. etc. If you're just wanting to be hostile towards me, then I'll end the conversation here.

I am not reaching for straws. You came in here with a hostile attitude towards people with mental illnesses from the start. You said that people who faked mental illness did so because they were histrionic. Well, histrionic is a mental illness. If you're histrionic, you're not faking a mental illness. You have a lot of biases you need to work through and a lot of hang ups on what is and isn't a real mental illness and what behaviours do and don't qualify a person for a "real" mental illness.

People have to experience legitimate suffering because of situations like prpl's.. it makes the people actually suffering far worse--to the point they can't handle it.. vs just letting the people who need the attention and understanding get it so that no one burns out.

You know, I'm really glad you regard prpl's suffering as real because I wouldn't want her to have to experience what it would be like to be on the receiving end of your judgements. But don't use her to further your crap agenda.

 

[á´…eparted]

You came in here with a hostile attitude towards people with mental illnesses from the start.

Actually, I don't think [MENTION=4939]kyuuei[/MENTION] is being hostile at all.

You said that people who faked mental illness did so because they were histrionic. Well, histrionic is a mental illness.

It's a personality disorder, an illness yes, but not a very extreme one. Some mental illnesses are worse than others. Considering personality disorders can be readily treated with CBT in most cases, it's very difficult for people to "excuse" personality disorders for that reason alone.

If you're histrionic, you're not faking a mental illness.

No, but it's probably one of the weakest excuses there is as it's a personality disorder. I for one never excuse personality disorders for bad behavior. If they can't manage their known problems, then they are just being a shitty ass person and deserve no leeway.

You have a lot of biases you need to work through and a lot of hang ups on what is and isn't a real mental illness and what behaviours do and don't qualify a person for a "real" mental illness.

I don't see any bias's. In fact, I'd argue you're the one with the bias's given you have questioned the foundation voracity and use of modern psychology in the past.

You know, I'm really glad you regard prpl's suffering as real because I wouldn't want her to have to experience what it would be like to be on the receiving end of your judgements. But don't use her to further your crap agenda.

You think her judgements are too harsh and she's pushing an agenda? Hardly. It looks much more like you're being defensive and overly sensitive.

 

[magpie]

Actually, I don't think [MENTION=4939]kyuuei[/MENTION] is being hostile at all.

Really? Do other people agree with this?

It's a personality disorder, an illness yes, but not a very extreme one. Some mental illnesses are worse than others. Considering personality disorders can be readily treated with CBT in most cases, it's very difficult for people to "excuse" personality disorders for that reason alone.

No, but it's probably one of the weakest excuses there is as it's a personality disorder. I for one never excuse personality disorders for bad behavior. If they can't manage their known problems, then they are just being a shitty ass person and deserve no leeway.

Can I get a list of mental illnesses from most to least serious please, including reasons?

I don't see any bias's. In fact, I'd argue you're the one with the bias's given you have questioned the foundation voracity and use of modern psychology in the past.

So? That gives me just as much of a bias as people who haven't questioned it, just in the opposite direction.

You think her judgements are too harsh and she's pushing an agenda? Hardly. It looks much more like you're being defensive and overly sensitive.

Maybe so. Does anyone else think I'm being defensive and sensitive?

 

[á´…eparted]

Really? Do other people agree with this?

Yes, really. I can't speak for others, but I seldom if ever see Kyueei as hostile. Blunt, but blunt ≠ hostile, which many people seem to forget or misinterpret.

Can I get a list of mental illnesses from most to least serious please, including reasons?

You seriously can't triage what mental illnesses tend to be more serious than others? Really? Of course there are so many that it becomes splitting hairs, and some cases can be so extreme it can create a data point outlier. Otherwise though, yes some tends to be much more severe than others. The big three are Schizophrenia, Schizoaffective, and Bipolar disorder.

NIMH » Serious Mental Illness (SMI) Among U.S. Adults

So? That gives me just as much of a bias as people who haven't questioned it, just in the opposite direction.

A bias is a bias. Since you question the basis of psychology (which is something that can't actually be invalidated in the first place), that certainly removes a lot of credibility for you to be able to speak about it. If there was legimate shakey ground for it, sure then it would be legit, but in this case there is not.

Maybe so. Does anyone else think I'm being defensive and sensitive?

If people answer, we'll see. It doesn't particularly matter all that much.

 

[prplchknz]

It's not always a matter of stepping in or giving advice when it would be easy not to. Sometimes the behavior affects other people and boundaries need to be drawn and enforced. When someone's behavior encroaches on my boundaries, they are going to hear from me about it. I don't really think of it as a "bitchslap" exactly, but I don't just let that shit continue. If I know or suspect that they struggle with mental illness that might inform the manner in which I let them know that they have encroached on my boundaries. But them having a mental illness does not mean that they get to do so unimpeded.

what's she saying is i can't randomly show up in her house and that be ok

(i do not know where she lives so this is hypothetical, and i suck at stalking)