It isn't just the army.. Before I was in the army we wrestled inter-gender, just as friends. We played tackle football, or dodgeball, it wasn't thought of twice. If the girls didn't want to play, they just sat out, no one thought twice of it. It just isn't sexual automatically just because a woman enters the field..
Yes, but again, what is standard for one community isn't for another. Dodgeball is a no contact sport (in my experience anyway) and I've NEVER seen a girl play tackle football - flag and two hand touch, yes, but aside from that.. and neither of those is wrestling.
I suppose we ought to have just not integrated whites and blacks in small town schools because their socialization was different in the 50s, by these principles. They had no experience with going to school with blacks.. but the government did what they thought was right and said, "Well. About time they got some experience." I don't think that principle is too far off from this.
There's a huge difference between what is often viewed as a vaguely sexual activity, the outcome of which is highly dependent on physical size, and something as arbitrary and irrelevant as race.
Females are becoming a part of every facet of the world more and more--things typically for men in the past are not anymore. Fighting is coed. Wrestling is coed. Sports have just as many able female athletes as males. It's just the way the world is.. The world is finding out that we're not as different as we put emphasis on.
Go watch the Olympics and compare the men's and women's events. Both genders at the height of conditioning and training, and the men still consistently outperform women in just about everything where physical power/strength is the main factor. Wrestling, boxing, etc. I'm not sure what fighting and wrestling you watch, because as far as I know real fighting does not mix genders. Maybe WWE does, but to call that real fighting is an amusing thought xD
Again. What's normal isn't always what's right, nor does "normal" justify anything. If he feels uncomfortable with women wrestling.. maybe he should think about not wrestling. Or maybe he should consider learning how to merge principles together. Maybe the sport is just a bit too extreme for him. He's entitled to a personal opinion.. I never said he wasn't. But I'm not going to stop doing something I have every right to do just because someone else doesn't agree with it. Nor should this girl. It shouldn't be, "Well, I wonder if we should have girls wrestle, someone may be offended by touching them..." It should be, "This is the way it's going to be. If you're offended, there are plenty of other sports in high school you can try out for. We're not going to hold people back anymore."
Or how about you not place someone where they don't belong. "There are plenty of other sports in high school you can try out for." Would we really put a guy into a traditionally female activity just because "well, there aren't any guys groups"? I think not.
I don't hate HIM. I hate the principles of it all. I feel like those principles, seated THAT deeply in that kid, are never going to leave.. and his kids are probably going to have it too. And will any of those men take a female wrestler seriously? Doubt it.
What do you hate? That his values say "No, I'm not going to wrestle a girl" - I know plenty of guys who won't engage in physical violence [even of the sanctioned sport related kind] against a woman. I see nothing wrong with that mentality. Even if it wasn't "those values" and it was his discomfort with the idea of being in close contact with a girl like that, I think that is preferable to him enjoying said contact >.>
The idea that a guy refuses to wrestle with a woman? Let's be real here. Women are not the physical equals of men. You will never see women as linebackers in the NFL. Not gonna happen. Men are physically far more suited to fighting than women are, and the sports that are simulating combat ought not be made coed. I'm pretty sure it's been said earlier in the thread, that if he wins "oh, well he's a guy, he had an advantage" and if he loses either he'll be made fun of for losing to a girl or he can say that he took it easy on her. Either way, I don't think this is fulfilling or fun competition.
I don't see what *my* physiological 'differences' has to do with any of this. You're not going to CONVINCE me that I'm a girl and that I don't have a penis--it's a well known fact already mate. But at the end of the day.. You said I'm equal. And if this is the case....
... Than the woman was fit to be in the wrestling ring, and had the skill and experience to be put up against her opponent. So all this nonsense you're saying just backs up what I'm saying: That these "It's innappropriate to be harsh towards a woman" rules society has are generalized rules with obvious exceptions and loopholes. Just because many women are smaller and weaker does not mean that EVERY woman is, and it certainly doesn't mean that every woman should be held back as a result. I highly doubt any high school, especially one that takes wrestling so seriously, would put a girl against an opponent that she would be completely demolished by.
And apparently, no one can even TRY on a co-ed team, according to you that'd just be awful decision making.
I wonder what physiological differences have to do with a physical sport where those differences are key.. hmmm....
You're equal. Also different. You have the same rights as a person. It is entirely possible that you're in my intellectual league, though that is constrained by genetics independent of gender. That does not mean you are the same as a man. Just as I am not the same as a woman, and there are sports and activities that you will have the upper hand in. Hell yes it's awful decision making. None of you have ever played on coed teams, have you?
I'm sure there are more than one woman in the world capable of handing you your ass. You just know of one. Exceptions to the majority shouldn't be held back.. Rather, they should be highlighted. Imagine if you told an athlete, "No, I'm sorry, you can't play football. You run much faster than the other boys do... And that's just not normal." It just doesn't make any sense.
Highlighted? If you're physically able to compete with men, odds are you'll be near or at the top of whatever sport you're playing [assuming you're in a female league]. What would be wrong with being at the top of your sport for your gender? Why do you insist on trying to put women in the same athletic group of competition as men? You don't see men striving to get into women's leagues.
And your example actually makes perfect sense, if there was some sort of proven gender advantage for running that was in favor of women. I'm not sure where you think the logic breaks down.
As far as you pulling punches..
I doubt she tried to kick you in the junk, so I'd say you're about even in that department.
About even would mean neither of us go for below the belt.
http://picture.funnycorner.net/funny-pictures/5399/Cunt-punt-soccer.jpg
Are any of you here athletic?
I monitor Yahoo sports articles daily, just as part of reading the news, and on occasion I've seen that... or someone pulls out some rule where an exceptional player on the middle-school level has been excluded because he just scores too many points.
But typically what I see is that it's kind of shameful to not treat your opponents with the respect of playing the actual game as if they are contenders. I guess there are different schools of thought, but if someone wants to compete, then I think they have accepted the change of potentially being outclassed. That's not for the other person to decide, and it's kind of humiliating to not even be taken seriously.
Wrestling, as you say, is a sport where actually competitors are closely matched due to the stringent weight requirements. A girl's weight might be allocated differently, but the reality is that I don't think this wrestler had another outlet for wrestling due to lack of female participation, so in order to play she had to compete in the men's division; it was her only option.
Eh; my brother went to UNL, and he REALLY wanted to be on the rifle team there - due to rules about having an equal number of men's and women's teams, there wasn't a men's team. however, since it was a women's team he was not allowed to join either. So yes, sometimes it sucks and you don't get to do what you've wanted to. My brother didn't make a stink about it, or insist that he be allowed to join the Women's team.
Regarding taking a girl seriously in competition, when I played Coed intramurals I always took the girls seriously, at first. They just rarely presented an even remotely serious challenge. I don't enjoy being in competition with anyone who doesn't present a serious challenge. I hate winning easily.