Why so much ESxx hate?

[KitchenFly]

i don't give enough of a shit to hate baby jesus or even like him

Well that rules out a bird of paradise, they have a kinda sunny disposition, flesh eating INTP I'm thinking born in a suburb with no trees.

Lol...we hates them nasty critters!

 

[prplchknz]

Well that rules out a bird of paradise, they have a kinda sunny disposition, flesh eating INTP I'm thinking born in a suburb with no trees.

Lol...we hates them nasty critters!

oh you're hilarious let me tell you.

 

[KitchenFly]

Yes ?

Firer up and let me savour your ISFP (6)mood with that ENFP avenging (4)Agenda..lol..the conches of the INTP(5). So much hate as it touches upon its point of stress ESFP at point (7).

 

[Daydreaming Swan]

In general, ESxx types have trouble understanding INxx types, and because the majority of the population is ESxx, this makes INxx types feel alienated and resentful.

 

[á´…eparted]

In general, ESxx types have trouble understanding INxx types, and because the majority of the population is ESxx, this makes INxx types feel alienated and resentful.

I disagree. This appears to be nothing more than a shitty baseless "us vs. them" mentality.

In fact, I'd argue that if ESxx types do have a hard time understanding INxx types, then INxx types would have just as much of a challenge of understanding ESxx types. It would be a two way street.

I honestly find the notion that just because one type is more populous than another (which I'd contest anyway, but that's a different topic), the less common will be feel alienated to be contrived and selfish. What good does it do to hate the majority for existing? None. It just breeds embitterment.

I also generally regard resentment as a failure of the individual, not the other party unless the acted upon something with malintent.

 

[Coriolis]

In fact, I'd argue that if ESxx types do have a hard time understanding INxx types, then INxx types would have just as much of a challenge of understanding ESxx types. It would be a two way street.

This is certainly the case.

I honestly find the notion that just because one type is more populous than another (which I'd contest anyway, but that's a different topic), the less common will be feel alienated to be contrived and selfish. What good does it do to hate the majority for existing? None. It just breeds embitterment.

There is fairly convincing evidence that the types are nowhere near uniformly distributed in the general population. Minorities of any kind often do feel alienated. Much depends on the behavior of the majority. Of course hate is pointless. In any case, it is not the existence of ESxx types that typically causes resentment, but rather how they go about things, particularly when this places unwanted demands on INxx types.

 

[Andy]

Simple question: why is there so much hate directed towards ESxx types (especially ESFx)? It just doesn't make any sense to me, and it's really sad. Not just disappointing sad--I mean, legitimate feelings of sorrow. I just can't understand why we all can't accept each other as equals. Different strengths, abilities, interests, natures, backgrounds, etc. I'm just so sick of all the "I'm an INTP and you're not, so you're stupid" crap, and stuff similar to it.

I guess this turned into more of a rant than a question. But I guess the essence really is the why part. Why? I just don't understand it.

I have a theory - hate often exists before the explanation for it. That is, hate is often illogical and irrational, an instinctive response to something percieved as different and potentially threatening. In fact, some people just seem to need someone or somethng to hate. It's like they are filled with an unformed rage looking for target. Perhaps that is the appeal of radical groups like IS or neo Nazis - they provide a framework to shape that hate, to give it a seemingly rational form. To a lesser degree, MBTI often gets used for the same perpose - sensors are stupid, TJs overbearing. Whatever, the exact words don't matter. It's the way they provide a focus for peoples need to hate that is the important part.

 

[Kensei]

ESxx? Throwing an ESTP in the same category as an ESFJ? Not to be rude, but *barfs on the floor*

 

[BadOctopus]

I have a theory - hate often exists before the explanation for it. That is, hate is often illogical and irrational, an instinctive response to something percieved as different and potentially threatening. In fact, some people just seem to need someone or somethng to hate. It's like they are filled with an unformed rage looking for target. Perhaps that is the appeal of radical groups like IS or neo Nazis - they provide a framework to shape that hate, to give it a seemingly rational form. To a lesser degree, MBTI often gets used for the same perpose - sensors are stupid, TJs overbearing. Whatever, the exact words don't matter. It's the way they provide a focus for peoples need to hate that is the important part.

Great points. It's interesting how hardly anyone ever expresses hatred or distaste for their own types. It's always the types they don't understand or can't relate to. When you think of it in that light, it seems kind of lazy.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Great points. It's interesting how hardly anyone ever expresses hatred or distaste for their own types.

I'm torn between feeling antipathy and sympathy for a significant percentage of my own type. I guess I should be careful not to get on my high horse, because there was a time when I wasn't much different, but a lot of INTPs strike me as being perpetual teenagers or middle-schoolers. Essentially, I want to metaphorically shake them and shout this at them:

Yes, I know you feel pain because the world doesn't understand you, but you're not the only one who has problems and things could be a lot worse. You could be a Yazidi villager having to fend off ISIS or something. Try and put things in perspective; being miserable doesn't make you more virtuous than anyone else. Just because I think you should have a little more faith in yourself doesn't mean that I'm trying to convert you to a religion or lead you off the proper path. It's not going to kill you to have a little bit of self-respect. There's a lot of shitty things in the world, but there's some good things too. You aren't helping anyone by only focusing on the shitty things unless you go out and do something about the shitty things. If you're not going to go out and do something, it can't hurt to focus on the good things sometimes, too. And no, attempting to treat people decently or recognizing that emotions might have value doesn't mean you lose your special snowflake INTP card.

 

[fetus]

I must confess that when I first got into type a little over a year ago, I was also in the ESxx hate/stereotype club. It's just something I grew out of once I began learning more, maturing, and understanding the theory better.

 

[Mane]

Great points. It's interesting how hardly anyone ever expresses hatred or distaste for their own types. It's always the types they don't understand or can't relate to. When you think of it in that light, it seems kind of lazy.

I get the impression every type here gets their time in the hate-light, people only really notice it when it is directed at them, thus feeling that the community as a whole has some issue with their type.

Its not that unreasonable though, if I identify as hyperactive and you have the experience of finding hyperactive people annoying, you'd like find me annoying. It stands to reason that when we read a description or analysis tool of personality characteristics and identify that as ourselves or answer similarly to test questions attempting to determine our personality characteristics, we might actually share some characteristics, and others might have some problems with those characteristics.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I get the impression every type here gets their time in the hate-light, people only really notice it when it is directed at them, thus feeling that the community as a whole has some issue with their type.

Its not that unreasonable though, if I identify as hyperactive and you have the experience of finding hyperactive people annoying, you'd like find me annoying. It stands to reason that when we read a description or analysis tool of personality characteristics and identify that as ourselves or answer similarly to test questions attempting to determine our personality characteristics, we might actually share some characteristics, and others might have some problems with those characteristics.

I think people tend to have an issue more with unhealthy examples of each type. Sometimes they generalize that to extend to the whole type, which is unfair.

 

[Showbread]

I think people tend to have an issue more with unhealthy examples of each type. Sometimes they generalize that to extend to the whole type, which is unfair.

I mean honestly, I hate unhealthy ESxx types too. They seem to be the masters of willful/belligerent ignorance, which really sets me off.

 

[Mane]

I think people tend to have an issue more with unhealthy examples of each type. Sometimes they generalize that to extend to the whole type, which is unfair.

Maybe, but why would a charachteristic have to be unhealthy in order to bother someone? Take for example... NTPs - it is pretty safe to assume that we have both identified with profiles and functions, as well as answered test questions in a way that expresses an ability and desire to break down theoretical frameworks to their basic assumptions building blocks as our ways of understanding them, as did other TPs. There are people who can be bothered by it, find this tiresome or exhausting, complain that it's inefficient & lacking in direction, or even insensitive and invasive when applied to relationships and people (These are all things I've actually seen people say about NTPs BTW). Do we need to be unhealthy for those complaints to be applicable?

I think its' easy to dismiss it as "The other unhealthy ones", but harder to acknowledge that we might just have characteristics that have negative consequences for others.

 

[Frosty]

I get the impression every type here gets their time in the hate-light, people only really notice it when it is directed at them, thus feeling that the community as a whole has some issue with their type.

Its not that unreasonable though, if I identify as hyperactive and you have the experience of finding hyperactive people annoying, you'd like find me annoying. It stands to reason that when we read a description or analysis tool of personality characteristics and identify that as ourselves or answer similarly to test questions attempting to determine our personality characteristics, we might actually share some characteristics, and others might have some problems with those characteristics.

I could see this becoming an issue because of people zeroing in on a singular aspect or idea about something that they dislike, finding out about the MBTI, and then using type as a sort of a justification for that bias. I would think that after a while, it would become easier to really instinctively spot those characteristics, causing the individuals perception of the associated problems to seem larger and more significant than it actually is. It leads to a particular analysis of a type, that while it might seem whole to an individual, is really just a an emotional overidentification. It is a very singular, focused, one dimensional understanding, that leads to hate because the person believes that since they reaseached and have spent so long on it, their understanding must be broad, representative, and whole. But yes, at the end of the day, it is still emotionally tied to judgement.

And then there are those who just skip past the work of justifying an understanding, who just latch onto the smallest part of something out of ease of availability, and just let their hatred fester. I guess it is the same idea, just a matter of how much you have decided to ingrain it upon yourself.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I mean honestly, I hate unhealthy ESxx types too. They seem to be the masters of willful/belligerent ignorance, which really sets me off.

Yeah. I dislike willful ignorance, but you and EJCC seem pretty cool. I think I have had some negative experiences with ESTJs, for instance in my own life, but then I've had negative experiences with INTPs, too. I honestly can't think of any negative experiences I've had with ESFJs. I feel like we tend to inhabit different worlds, but it's easy enough to get on their good side just by showing a certain amount of courtesy.

 

[Mane]

Yeah. I dislike willful ignorance, but you and EJCC seem pretty cool. I think I have had some negative experiences with ESTJs, for instance in my own life, but then I've had negative experiences with INTPs, too. I honestly can't think of any negative experiences I've had with ESFJs. I feel like we tend to inhabit different worlds, but it's easy enough to get on their good side just by showing a certain amount of courtesy.

I worked with an obvious ISFJ once, she just laughed and said "Weird" to everything I said. It wasn't particularly negative, but it was kind of... Not particularly anything. It was hard to figure out a way to respond to that. I have tried to cover the semantics of what counts as weird with her, but that was weird too appealingly.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I worked with an obvious ISFJ once, she just laughed and said "Weird" to everything I said. It wasn't particularly negative, but it was kind of... Not particularly anything. It was hard to figure out a way to respond to that. I have tried to cover the semantics of what counts as weird with her, but that was weird too appealingly.

I guess, but that's more tolerable than dealing with the equivalent of Jerry Falwell or Bill O'Reilly. Essentially, a loud person that doesn't shut up or leave you alone but doesn't actually know anything. You offer them a carrot and they keep on asking you for more carrots. This particular flavor is obnoxious and impossible to satisfy.

 

[Mane]

I guess, but that's more tolerable than dealing with the equivalent of Jerry Falwell or Bill O'Reilly. Essentially, a loud person that doesn't shut up or leave you alone but doesn't actually know anything. You offer them a carrot and they keep on asking you for more carrots. This particular flavor is obnoxious and impossible to satisfy.

Hmm... Maybe instead of Trying to satisfy them, see how far they'll go for the carrots?