[Te] Why people don't like to talk about Te ?

[Virtual ghost]

I started one earlier this year. You posted in it:

TJs: Describe Te as You Understand It

This is sort of my point "You know there was one Te thread earlier this year". On the other hand no one even counts Ni threads anymore.

I will answer your specific questions later, but for now I think you have identified one part of why not much is said about Te: pretty much everyone knows the basics about it. It is much less mysterious than, say, Ni. I have even heard Te described rather pejoratively as the "least common denominator function", as if to deny it has any depth or ability for nuance. Without getting into the accuracy of that characterization, I can say that the relative straightforwardness of Te is its strength. It is concerned with objective aspects of external reality, things all of us can point to and measure. In short, the "facts of the matter". If we cannot at least agree on those, then we cannot productively move on to interpretation, valuation, elaboration, and those supposedly deeper and more nuanced thought processes. Te, regardless of where it is in our function stack, helps us all get on the same page.

I can merge the threads if the OP wishes.

If you insist ok. However I wanted a clean start since I have pretty big plans for this thread.
If that is not the case I would simply resurrect one of my older Te threads.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I've always felt it was looked at as a really boring function. I never heard much else said until it got attacked by some Fe doms. I never got it, it's not the villain it's made out to be. For us, Te helps Ni (through Se) be more objective or embrace the external world and stop over complicating stuff, for starters.

It also finds keys and wallets, especially other peoples' keys and wallets since we're good at gathering factual data (where they're likely leaving stuff) and evidence (Here's your stuff!)

Are you sure ? There are some pretty open questions in my opinion


1. How does it interact with other functions ?
2. How does it behave in some lower positions ?
3. What does Te do in uncapitalistic environemnts ?
4. What does Te do in very P or Fe environments ?
5. Te and romance ? Is it possible ?

This is why I claim to be mistyped for qute some time, since all Te stuff are biased towards American culture and worldview. I played INTJ Te heavy card for quite some time but as my health got better I just could not see myself as inferior Se anymore, since I really changed. Plus I went through so much stuff that this would negatively effect everybody.


Aux Te can be boring since it really is "fact checker" but as dom it has so much more in the terms of social interaction/dynamics and ambitious goals.

 

[violet_crown]

This is sort of my point "You know there was one Te thread earlier this year". On the other hand no one even counts Ni threads anymore.

If you used the search tool there are others, I'm sure. It's probably fair to say there haven't been any active ones for a while.

 

[Tilt]

I will answer your specific questions later, but for now I think you have identified one part of why not much is said about Te: pretty much everyone knows the basics about it. It is much less mysterious than, say, Ni. I have even heard Te described rather pejoratively as the "least common denominator function", as if to deny it has any depth or ability for nuance. Without getting into the accuracy of that characterization, I can say that the relative straightforwardness of Te is its strength. It is concerned with objective aspects of external reality, things all of us can point to and measure. In short, the "facts of the matter". If we cannot at least agree on those, then we cannot productively move on to interpretation, valuation, elaboration, and those supposedly deeper and more nuanced thought processes. Te, regardless of where it is in our function stack, helps us all get on the same page.

Yes. The unabashed straightforwardness without too much innuendo is what I learn most from whenever I interact with TJs. It often feels like an unwieldy hammer coming at you (at least coming from a Fe perspective) but there's something refreshing about the transparency when you guys do chose to show your hands quite unlike some of other types. Not to imply that other types aren't honest or that TJs can't be dishonest but the "facts of the matter" approach seems more transparent without the added BS.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I get along well with Te-doms and Aux, usually. It is mostly only a problem when it (1) leans towards subjective goals and (2) the person using it has power over me like an employer.

I wish I could use more Te and just state the facts. It can often come across as a strong function that provides clarity and stability among people. I recently had an experience socially that made me so frustrated with myself for not demonstrating a bit more Te. It's put me in mind of the function and considering that I should see if I can access more in myself and just say whatever should be said in any scenario.

What I like about Te in others is when there is that feeling of clarity and directness, because the subtext from the majority of people wears me out. I can see and feel a great deal of subtext in others, but I don't enjoy it at all.

Is Te the function that recalls large amounts of facts? Is the "walking encyclopedia" person strong in using Te?

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

1. How does it interact with other functions ?
There is an interesting interaction between Te and Ni in interviewees I see when watching documentaries about aliens. I see people amassing great quantities of facts about the world using Te, and then Ni allows the mind to play with those facts, arranging them, comparing them, creating various conceptual patterns that allow one to rethink assumptions about reality and come to new conclusions. This doesn't have to involve aliens, but that strikes me as one example.

2. How does it behave in some lower positions ?
I'm not certain about this, but I think tertiary and inferior Te can present strong certitude about the facts of a position without amassing as many facts, without obtaining as clear a big picture of the concept in some cases. Although, I do think some people use the weaker functions with great efficiency.

3. What does Te do in uncapitalistic environemnts ?
Te does in any environment what is most logical, what provides the most efficient outcome based on the available parameters. Perhaps Te beholden to Si requires more consistency, more tried and true approaches, but Te with Ni will rethink and take risks to get the desired outcome.

4. What does Te do in very P or Fe environments ?
In Fe environments it tends to feel confused by social politeness. I've had discussions with strong Te people who are genuinely mystified by "midwestern politeness" asking "Why would someone say something they don't mean? Why would they say 'yes' if they mean 'no'." It provides bafflement and frustration.

5. Te and romance ? Is it possible ?
For the most part it is more likely to be startlingly direct and so encounter more initial failures, but it can work hard at romance and be successful. The danger is low empathy, so I think Te requires a partner willing to communicate very directly about their own needs.

 

[Virtual ghost]

If you used the search tool there are others, I'm sure. It's probably fair to say there haven't been any active ones for a while.

I know there are other Te threads around ... I even opend some of them. It is just that people don't see to talk much about it. What is kinda strange since this is the function that is most likely to keep things togather when problems come knocking at the door.

Is Te the function that recalls large amounts of facts? Is the "walking encyclopedia" person strong in using Te?

It can be but this is more of a Ti or Si thing from what I have seen. Te is more like "knowing what to do" or "figuring out what to do" while encyclopedia thing is more academic approach to life. Which stronger usage of Te wantes to "overide" since it is too slow and often lacks pragmatism. I have frustrated a number of times people who have more academic apprach to life since I am too result driven and focused more on things that have impact/leverage instead of on all pieces equally.


In other words Te is result driven instead of understanding driven, therefore knowledge is simply the means/resource.
Just the other day I had a conversation with my father and he was "Wow... easy, easy!" since I pushed everything into a clean time table and ended discussion right there. I did what had to be done and that was it for me since I was not interested in a chat.

 

[Poki]

This is a good topic because "ceo" just doesnt cut it. I know a homeless ESTJ. He used to own his own business, but now he is homeless and cant find a job. I work with a white collar ESTJ. I know spastic ones, laid back ones, meticulous ones. Ones who are filthy, and ones who are spotless.

Pretty much all of them enjoy attention to detail, detail is the data and its how you make proper decisions. They are a type that believes that screw ups make us a better and stronger person. Clutter is evil...doesnt mean they are the most organized, etc. But all that i know hopd organized very HIGHLY.

Its a shallow T function that uses experience over a deep initial knowledge set. Lets do this hands on and figure things out as we go. Whats known data and detail or concepts and patterns and make a decision and move. They are all faster paced people that love kicking back and socializing...shootin the shit.

 

[Virtual ghost]

4. What does Te do in very P or Fe environments ?
In Fe environments it tends to feel confused by social politeness. I've had discussions with strong Te people who are genuinely mystified by "midwestern politeness" asking "Why would someone say something they don't mean? Why would they say 'yes' if they mean 'no'." It provides bafflement and frustration.

This question is big for me since it is a core of my social problems. Since I have a problem dealing with ....


People who complain about money but spend too much on litterally nonsense.
Government that has no vision, can make a deficit of 30%, doesn't know many employees it has, affairs are too numerous too count ...
Mayor that has about 170 afairs behind him but he answered for 0 of them.
People who are into sugarcoating for the sake of sugarcoating.
Proper background and connetions provides jobs instead of grades and competence.
Etc. Etc.


For me this is all toxic and I can't live like this.
I have even started ignoring people/friends since I have not desire to even try to play along and I have to do it for my own emotional well being.
I need clearity or at least a struggle for clarity, otherwise I implode.

 

[Virtual ghost]

This is a good topic because "ceo" just doesnt cut it. I know a homeless ESTJ. He used to own his own business, but now he is homeless and cant find a job. I work with a white collar ESTJ. I know spastic ones, laid back ones, meticulous ones. Ones who are filthy, and ones who are spotless.

Pretty much all of them enjoy attention to detail, detail is the data and its how you make proper decisions. They are a type that believes that screw ups make us a better and stronger person. Clutter is evil...doesnt mean they are the most organized, etc. But all that i know hopd organized very HIGHLY.

Its a shallow T function that uses experience over a deep initial knowledge set. Lets do this hands on and figure things out as we go. Whats known data and detail or concepts and patterns and make a decision and move. They are all faster paced people that love kicking back and socializing...shootin the shit

True, Te-dom has good or above average chances of becoming a ceo, but there are no guarantees.


However this post strikes me more as a rant about American education system or culture than something that is trully typology driven. As I said my country will soon introduce our 7th currency over the last 100 years and therefore I don't see money as a driving mechanism of the world. Plus I am clearly anti guns ... as I said a number of times.

These are all values ... not cognition.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I like the Te types.

Working with them has been hit or miss. Leave me to my own devices. They make good managers. Once I prove myself as competent and capable of devising my own strategies and approaches, they usually leave me alone and just check in occasionally.

That wasn't an explanation of Te. I apologize.


I thought it was one of the more straightforward functions, at least in terms of being able to accurately describe it. It only makes sense, being an extraverted rational function, that it would be easier to observe, classify and define.

Yet I struggle to define and explain it because it is still somewhat alien to me. It would seem to be like Ti turned inside out to the world, but that's probably an oversimplification that doesn't do it justice. Their endgames are different, but that's because one is directed inward, the other outward. Te users seem less prone to flights of fancy for the sake of flights of fancy, or systematizing for the sake of systematizing .Te is a great anchor for the IxTJs, I think; for the ExTJs it can be both effective and overbearing (to non Te observers)--that overbearingness isn't bad per se--leverage and presence are underrated and both ExTJ types seem to excel there. There's usually a way of bringing a theory or idea back into the concrete world, and if they can't, they will either discard or change a procedure, system or theory to better work in the world. So while it seems more rigid and, ahem, boring, than Ti at a casual glance, I can appreciate it for being the more practical, and in some ways, more adaptable function.

 

[Poki]

True, Te-dom has good or above average chances of becoming a ceo, but there are no guarantees.


However this post strikes me more as a rant about American education system or culture than something that is trully typology driven. As I said my country will soon introduce our 7th currency over the last 100 years and therefore I don't see money as a driving mechanism of the world. Plus I am clearly anti guns ... as I said a number of times.

These are all values ... not cognition.

Rant? I have no issues with these people at all. I actually get along with them. Where does money come into play with what i said or even guns? This was strictly perception and loose categorization. Anything other then that is your perception based on what was said, not mine.

 

[Poki]

Empirical thinking is at the core of extraverted Thinking when we challenge someone's ideas based on the logic of the facts in front of us or lay out reasonable explanations for decisions or conclusions made, often trying to establish order in someone else's thought process.

This would be a rant. Te is good at projecting the inner self on others due to focus on self confusion in essence pushing that confusion onto others which essentially ignores all but whats internal to them self and ignoring others in the process.

They can be a beating to work with when they are stuck on their own internal confusion of the subject at hand.

 

[Poki]

Te is about objective facts, Ti is about subjective principles. A Ti user cares more about the logical system they have created than individual facts. Te users care more about the facts themselves.


Healthy Te can change its thinking more easily because it is usually only taking specific facts into consideration instead of a system. If a fact is demonstrated to be false, Te won't hold onto it's conclusions. Te is more like applied sciences than mathematics. If you try to use principles instead of facts to convince Te you probably won't have much luck.


A Te user imposes logical connections upon the world


Te users want to organize things in the external world in a logical, consistent way. The ultimate expression of Te was Soviet communism, a complete reorganization of a society according to impersonal, amoral principles.



Te: How does this work?

Te: Playing these three notes together will form this chord.

Te: To reach my goal I follow the steps to X.

Te starts with the fact and organizes that way (Aristotle believing that blueness does not exist without blue things). Because of this Te deals with real-world stuff.

Some basic stuff i have found on Te that in my opinion are pretty accurate.

 

[Tilt]

This would be a rant. Te is good at projecting the inner self on others due to focus on self confusion in essence pushing that confusion onto others which essentially ignores all but whats internal to them self and ignoring others in the process.

They can be a beating to work with when they are stuck on their own internal confusion of the subject at hand.

Yes. That lower-order Fi can conflate things and make them dig their heels into uncharacteristically irrational conclusions fronted as objective truth/logic. The amount a TJ tries to assert how "logical" he is is proportionately related to how biased the argument will be... from my observation.

 

[Poki]

Yes. That lower-order Fi can conflate things and make them dig their heels into uncharacteristically irrational conclusions fronted as objective truth/logic. The amount a TJ tries to assert how "logical" he is is proportionately related to how biased the argument will be... from my observation.

Yes, keep them out of fight mode and all is good. This is dependent on "society though". Sometimes you have to let them fight society to bring them down out of that mode before they get back in healthy mode and open back up.

Above all else they value competence in others and value those they can trust. These 2 traits directly align with the outlook and method they use to go about life.

They are the "good ol boys" sans any value of stupidity that goes along with that saying.

 

[ceecee]

True, Te-dom has good or above average chances of becoming a ceo, but there are no guarantees.


However this post strikes me more as a rant about American education system or culture than something that is trully typology driven. As I said my country will soon introduce our 7th currency over the last 100 years and therefore I don't see money as a driving mechanism of the world. Plus I am clearly anti guns ... as I said a number of times.

These are all values ... not cognition.

I wondered where the gun reference came from but Poki wasn't talking about guns. "Shootin the shit" is just sitting around and hanging out with people and talking (shooting) about whatever (the shit). Sometimes I forget that not every American figure of speech is translatable or even understandable by everyone so, I tend to explain where I think it's needed.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I wondered where the gun reference came from but Poki wasn't talking about guns. "Shootin the shit" is just sitting around and hanging out with people and talking (shooting) about whatever (the shit). Sometimes I forget that not every American figure of speech is translatable or even understandable by everyone so, I tend to explain where I think it's needed.

That makes sense. My English is pretty thin when it comes to "street talk".

 

[Virtual ghost]

This would be a rant. Te is good at projecting the inner self on others due to focus on self confusion in essence pushing that confusion onto others which essentially ignores all but whats internal to them self and ignoring others in the process.

They can be a beating to work with when they are stuck on their own internal confusion of the subject at hand.

Te is extroverted function and therefore it requires feedback, when Te-dom is unsure they first search for new data in people around them. Since that is often multiple times more effective than searching the answer on your own. I was rised in a way that this is "wrong" but I have started to do exactly this. Also Te-dom is a natural coordinator and therefore it is often vital that this person understands what people around them have in their heads. Since the entire plan often depends on what people have in their heads ... and this is perhaps the only way to get that insight.

I think you as most IxxP people mistake "Te information search" and external confirmation for ignorance or confusion.

The ultimate expression of Te was Soviet communism, a complete reorganization of a society according to impersonal, amoral principles.

That is not true. Political systems as ideas are all much more related to introverted functions regardless of the MBTI type. Something what your quote calls "A Ti user cares more about the logical system they have created than individual facts".


Communism failed exactly because it was out of touch with Te and pragmatic common sense, plus it prefered the opposite of critical thinking in masses, since it prefered obidience that mimics Fe. I had many problems due to the fact that I live in ex-communist country and pretty much all of them are Te related. Te was somewhat present in this system since it was a system, but it surely didn't have the main word. Since planning and fact checking were pretty low in priority. As a matter of fact the "fact checking" was often illegal, what points at ego of the lawmaker(s) much more than Te way of thinking.

 

[Poki]

Te is extroverted function and therefore it requires feedback, when Te-dom is unsure they first search for new data in people around them. Since that is often multiple times more effective than searching the answer on your own. I was rised in a way that this is "wrong" but I have started to do exactly this. Also Te-dom is a natural coordinator and therefore it is often vital that this person understands what people around them have in their heads. Since the entire plan often depends on what people have in their heads ... and this is perhaps the only way to get that insight.

I think you as most IxxP people mistake "Te information search" and external confirmation for ignorance or confusion.






That is not true. Political systems as ideas are all much more related to introverted functions regardless of the MBTI type. Something what your quote calls "A Ti user cares more about the logical system they have created than individual facts".


Communism failed exactly because it was out of touch with Te and pragmatic common sense, plus it prefered the opposite of critical thinking in masses, since it prefered obidience that mimics Fe. I had many problems due to the fact that I live in ex-communist country and pretty much all of them are Te related. Te was somewhat present in this system since it was a system, but it surely didn't have the main word. Since planning and fact checking were pretty low in priority. As a matter of fact the "fact checking" was often illegal, what points at ego of the lawmaker(s) much more than Te way of thinking.

Thanks for the info about Te, food for thought.

I think they were just referring to the restructuring. Kind of how corporations restructure to refocus or streamline. I knew the communism would ruffle feathers and rightly so since it has so much crap tied to it. It was some info i found so i didnt want to modify and change it. Politics itself aside from the restructure mentioned seem to be hit or miss with Te. They like things ran a certain way and if they are ran differently it better work. If it works and is functional, Te will leave it alone or learn from it whether Te likes it or not. They eventually learn to enjoy it as it works...seen as competent.

That last sentence i wrote makes me curious about the love/hate dynamics between Te and Fi I see, especially in inferior Te types.

Te information searching would be something good to get into. I think its a VERY wide range of possible actions based on lessons learned. Not sure if this is right thread or if its to much experience based for a cognition thread and off topic.