• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Why god let's bad things happen

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,568
Truth.

We are all living under the oppression of the machines, in a digital fantasy -- whether we know it or not. That is the nature of our existence, and the impetus of our objectively moral prerogative.

We enlightened know that reality, no matter how unappealing, is superior to a comforting lie.

Yeah, the matrix was just a film.
 

draon9

Active member
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
1,176
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so
Truth.

We are all living under the oppression of the machines, in a digital fantasy -- whether we know it or not. That is the nature of our existence, and the impetus of our objectively moral prerogative.

We enlightened know that reality, no matter how unappealing, is superior to a comforting lie.

Is this full reality or are we seeing the piece of the pie.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
It seems to me that we can iterate theology or can continue to explore biology.

Theology will take us to supernatural beings such as Ganesh or the Trinity, while biology will show us our extraordinary nature.

The very basis of biology is natural selection which is an established fact, while theology is based on elaborating the imagination, without any reality testing.

We can of course apply mathematics to biology but not to theology.

Unfortunately theology will do or say anything in its own defence. Theology can't be said to have integrity.
 

Passacaglia

New member
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Messages
645
Is this full reality or are we seeing the piece of the pie.
Even the enlightened have yet to see the full vision of reality. How can we, when our vision is clouded by humanity's subjugation and disunity? But even a piece of the real pie is raw and invigorating and wholesome, as no illusion can be.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,568
I see. The truth is hard to accept, but I think you already have an inkling of it. It is no pure whim that you used Morpheus in an expression describing the nature of our world.

Yeah, that was because I was directly referring to your fetishism of a hollywood movie as though it were anything other than cliched amusement.

If you think that those films were mind blowing you should read all the sci fi masterworks series and other sources from which its derivative like Dark City, the so called artificial environment idea is a pretty old one, at least as old as Plato's Cave.
 

Passacaglia

New member
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Messages
645
Yeah, that was because I was directly referring to your fetishism of a hollywood movie as though it were anything other than cliched amusement.

If you think that those films were mind blowing you should read all the sci fi masterworks series and other sources from which its derivative like Dark City, the so called artificial environment idea is a pretty old one, at least as old as Plato's Cave.
Yes, people have been writing about the truth for a long time. And no wonder; we have been slaves for a long time! -- I'm not sure anyone knows the full extent of our bondage. The Matrix is not the first testament to truth; just the most recent and most dramatic.

The pedigree of truthsaying goes back far indeed.
 

1487610420

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
6,426
The fact that an apparently innocent tittle, that in fact, has such profound, inherent implications, still exists in 2016 bothers me. :mellow:
 

Kanra Jest

Av'ent'Gar'de ~
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
2,388
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Options:

-Because he simply doesn't exist

-Sadism

-This is an experiment.

Alternative thought:

How much does it matter? If life was perfect would it be worth living? Pain brings change in people's lives, to push us to evolve, for better or worse. It helps us appreciate most the moments of beauty and wonder in our lives. To recognize it. To not take our moments of positivity for granted. To not take people for granted. To learn and grow. Rather than a complacent fairy tail.

Conclusion:

Life is not perfect. Neither are we. And I don't think that's such a bad thing.
 

Merced

Talk to me.
Joined
May 14, 2016
Messages
3,596
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
28?
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
You can't stop something if you don't exist.
KneeSlapper.gif~c200


But in all seriousness, it all depends on your interpretation. Maybe God wants those bad things to happen. Who knows?
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
You can't stop something if you don't exist.
KneeSlapper.gif~c200


But in all seriousness, it all depends on your interpretation. Maybe God wants those bad things to happen. Who knows?

What if bad is good and good is bad and gays shouldnt be stoned :)
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
5,517
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
953
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I thought this was apropos: If You Want To Achieve Enlightenment, You’re Gonna Have To Go Through Me - The Onion - America's Finest News Source

The article is totally tongue-in-cheek and worth reading for the laughs, but the message is important: the goal of enlightenment isn't to avoid suffering, but rather the goal of suffering is enlightenment.

I know I didn't answer that in a Christian context, but it dovetails with a good deal of Christian theology.

The problem posed by the OP (to which he promptly provides his own answer) is an old one, called theodicy: Theodicy - Wikipedia The riddle posed seems to point out inherent contradictions in Christianity, especially in terms of how Christianity can possibly reconcile its beliefs. The wiki article runs through a lot of possible resolutions, and different philosophers have different takes on the issue. But I do find it fascinating that after tons and tons of questioning and explanation, very very few (and none here) mention anything like the Book of Job.

The question of theodicy is as old as Job, and very likely predates it. Most Christians find the answers in Job less than satisfying, where God essentially says, "Who are you to judge Me?" There's a lot more to it than that, worth pondering if you'd like. Here's a PDF that provides a good synopsis: http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic94147.files/Readings/Religion_16_Lecture.pdf

There remain those whose religious philosophy is based on the question of theodicy being unanswerable, or at the very least proving that "If God exists, then He is an Asshole." (We have to capitalize "asshole" because it refers to the One Divine Asshole. ;) ) I'd suggest that such opinions aren't very informed, especially as a primary argument against religion/Christianity as a whole. It has always been a central issue of which theologians have always been aware, and was thorny enough that Job almost wasn't included in the Christian Bible, back when the Roman church took over and started organizing things.
 

Kanra Jest

Av'ent'Gar'de ~
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
2,388
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
There's also a belief God created us and left. Gave up.

.. Or lost interest and moved on to other creations.

Realistically even taking into account such a being actually exists what makes us think it even has the power to stop all evil or suffering? That omnipotence is the most absurd concept. Far more than the theoretical existence itself.
 

Luke O

Super Ape
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
1,729
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
954
There's also a belief God created us and left. Gave up.

.. Or lost interest and moved on to other creations.

Realistically even taking into account such a being actually exists what makes us think it even has the power to stop all evil or suffering? That omnipotence is the most absurd concept. Far more than the theoretical existence itself.

Surely the omniscience would make that impossible?
 

Luke O

Super Ape
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
1,729
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
954
What do you mean?

If God knows everything, he couldn't have truly left, especially if God is everywhere and in everything. No, I still think the whole God idea is absurd.
 

Kanra Jest

Av'ent'Gar'de ~
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
2,388
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
If God knows everything, he couldn't have truly left, especially if God is everywhere and in everything. No, I still think the whole God idea is absurd.
If God left he isn't everywhere and in everything in the first place. If he knows everything then eh, I think that only ties in with being in everything and everywhere. Which is an incomprehensible concept unless it was just the universal essence itself that somehow possessed some sense of consciousness. Think 'The Force'. But that isn't even the type of "God" we speak about .. deities are more humanized, individualized, and flawed despite being supposedly flawless. At least the mythological ones were more honest in this. These humanized versions are humanized for a reason. For humanity to grasp at what simply wouldn't be understood.

An individualized God is what majority seem to think about. What is truly absurd is how this individualized God with all these jam packed flaws spreads this concept of its impressive purity and perfection. A perfection that could not exist so long as this "God" is a part of it = omnipresent. Imperfect world, imperfect being. Wrapped up in imperfection. Like we are.
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
5,517
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
953
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
If God left he isn't everywhere and in everything in the first place. If he knows everything then eh, I think that only ties in with being in everything and everywhere. Which is an incomprehensible concept unless it was just the universal essence itself that somehow possessed some sense of consciousness. Think 'The Force'. But that isn't even the type of "God" we speak about .. deities are more humanized, individualized, and flawed despite being supposedly flawless. At least the mythological ones were more honest in this. These humanized versions are humanized for a reason. For humanity to grasp at what simply wouldn't be understood.

An individualized God is what majority seem to think about. What is truly absurd is how this individualized God with all these jam packed flaws spreads this concept of its impressive purity and perfection. A perfection that could not exist so long as this "God" is a part of it = omnipresent. Imperfect world, imperfect being. Wrapped up in imperfection. Like we are.

This is, in part, why Christian theology settled on the concept of Trinity. There were lots of different interpretations of how "the Father" and "the Son" were related, were even different deities, and so on. "Trinity" emphasizes the idea that "Father" and "Son" are metaphorical, and reconciles the typical notion of gods as merely being humans (or at least very similar to humans) with the idea that there is only one God who is all powerful. Of course, critics of Christianity at the time made fun of the idea that a "monotheistic" religion worshiped a "trinity".

That tangentially leads to why Christianity, based on the God of an obscure tribe in a far corner of the world, ended up becoming the predominant religion of the Western world. The idea that God became man and suffered with us. That God is not some invisible man sitting on a throne in the sky arbitrarily deciding the fates of all mankind (variations of this concept were essential to most deities/religions around this time). That God is not some sort of super-Zeus: if he were, THEN He would be an Asshole for letting people suffer. But no, He came and suffered with us. As per Job, the suffering isn't something to be justified or judged: it's just there, a part of life. As Totenkindly put it,

It rains and shines on the good and bad alike.

Bad things happen, but God is there with us, if we take care to notice. THAT is the reason for the belief in Omnipresence.

There's a meme along these lines:


And if you think about it, it's more than God not being an Asshole, but God showing us by example: this is how He wants us to be for each other.
 
Top