[INTJ] Why do INTJ still keep in touch with their exes... too much?

[chubber]

I think everything you said makes sense and is really on point.

1) I do not know for sure, but I am almost completely positive he broke up with her. His ex was an ENFP as well. She seems way too interested and up his butt, for me to think it's the other way around. Plus, he told me some of the problems he had with her was watching her openly flirt with other men in front of him, and she wouldn't tone down the flirting. He also told me that she always perceived him as controlling her, he would suggest/advise her on some things, and she would do the exact opposite just to tick him off. It sounded like a volatile relationship.

2) He's an INTJ 6w5 sx/so, and I'm an ENFP 7w6 sx/so, our chemistry is insane and off the charts. We have insane chemistry on the mental/intellectual, emotional, and sexual level. We have not met in person but we video-chatted for like 2 months straight for hours every single day. I think because we are both Head Types on the Enneagram, our connection is more in sync, especially with being both SX types. He told me his ex-girlfriend is an ENFP 4w3, and he feels a better and healthier connection with me than he does with her. I am pretty positive the chemistry is still going to be there when we meet in person, it sounds crazy to everyone, but we have gotten really close, revealing everything to each other. It's a very intimate bond we have established. He even told me himself in a message that he's never had a connection with another person like he has with me, and it's a deep connection he's never experienced before and he knows it's "real".

3) I do plan on kissing and making out with him when we meet, he expressed he wants to do that too. I believe it's one of those situations where I will have to force myself not to sleep with him too soon. Our bond isn't only just on the mental and emotional level, it's on the sexual level as well. There will be flames.

There seems to be your problem.

On a serious note, why do you judge him based on what his ex says about him? What does he say?

A list that I can make of myself.

1. I don't know how to deal with people.
2. I don't know how to say NO to people, see point nr 1.
3. I do lie to myself (serious soul searching, after numerous XXFPs told me that)
4. I don't know how to use Fi
5. My viewpoint will never be your viewpoint.
6. I don't know how to be honest with myself. I don't want to rather, because I don't want to deal with feelings, they are just emotions to me.
7. When I become my shadow, the ESFP (negative one). Dealing in absolutes are fuelled by my child like Fi. (in that mode) overindulging and with weak values.
8. Feelings (considering other people) are not what I am good at. That would be your department.
9. I accept that I will never be as good as you at what you do best.
10. I need you to understand that I am not you.
11. I have difficulty getting people to agree with me.
12. I talk in general, detail is not my thing. I assume you are following my context.
13. I don't context switch as often as you.

Don't believe me? Hear what these experts have to say... of course in a spoiler.

INTJ / ENFP
The Scientist and the Inspirer

An Introverted/Extraverted Relationship

The level of both harmony and conflict within Introverted/Extraverted relationships can vary considerably, depending on how strongly expressed the introverted and extraverted tendencies are for these types. With very moderate expressions only the general attitudes, desires and interests of the parties involved are likely to be factors of importance affecting the relationship, and these will depend more upon the specific functions of the personalities and less upon their introverted or extraverted expression. In other cases however, particularly where both parties have a strongly expressed dominant focus, the impact of Introversion vs Extraversion becomes an important factor affecting all the functional dynamics of the relationship. For this reason overly general statements about the functional give and take within such relationships can mislead when such strong differences of viewpoint exist. We have tried to take this into account in the following, but it is worth recognizing that in some instances what might appear as a conflict in one relationship can be a source of harmony in another.

INTJ-ENFP Relationship Dynamics

The qualities and dynamics of this relationship will be highly dependant upon external factors such as the kind work each person does and the socio/economic space in which the relationship continues. There are many reasons why this relationship can just “fall together” at first, but as time goes on both partners will find it requires attention to detail and a careful and ongoing adjustment to each other’s needs.

The INTJ and the ENFP are very different kinds of people, with very different needs and viewpoints. This polarity can either work to quickly produce an easy complementary relationship or it can – and will – produce difficulties, both possibilities resulting from just how independent and fulfilled each partner is within their own personal life.

Dependence and expectation are the main cause of issues in this relationship, although even in a relationship free of such factors there will always remain the opposing effect, which is driven by both the INTJ and the ENFP problem of letting things that are unimportant to them fall into “whatever” mode. So this relationship is first and foremost one which requires ongoing attention; not only attention to the needs of the other, but also to ones own.

“To be or not to be... that is the question...”

Inner feeling combines with extroverted intuition in a way to drive the ENFP into the world in search of validation. Virtually anything can bring the necessary sense of alignment to their values and inspirations provided it offers a path which promises to lead ever onwards toward greater fulfilment. Where one path fails, they will soon find another which leads on toward the peaks of life.

They are not searching necessarily for experiences, but for the completeness of their recognitions of the world – for the ultimate situation, for the perfect alignment of the world outside themselves and the values within – and the kinds of behaviour this engenders in the ENFP can drive an INTJ crazy.

“Running about like chook with it’s head cut off” they will mutter as they watch from their quiet corner of the world and wonder if any of this rushing about is ever going to achieve anything. But without understanding the necessary feeling values which attach to ENFP behaviour, they will miss the point – for what is being achieved is happening right under their noses without them seeing it.

In a similar but inverted way, thinking combines with inner intuition in the INTJ to drive an endless search for realization of the essence or truth of things. Inspiration for this search comes from within and leads outward to the world where thinking is applied to the how and why of things. The INTJ sees that so many things are possible, but knows there can be only one truth – in which all things fit into a system of perfect alignment and correctness.

Need drives them to validate the world and the behaviour of others by its alignment to this sense of rightness, and they can do this sitting in a chair under a tree, riding on a crowded bus, or just laying in bed. All they need is the information. “Just give me the facts, ma’am... I’ll do the rest.” The idea that one might derive personal validation and satisfaction from arriving at a perfect geometrical alignment between outer facts and some inexpressible inner realization strikes the ENFP as such a strange, cold and valueless form of existence that they entirely miss its similarity to their own behaviour – where their own worldly search for validation is also essentially a method of finding a perfect and alignment between the possibilities they see in the world and a set of values no less fixed than the INTJ logical framework.

“Talk about chalk and cheese... they must drive each other crazy.”

Both difference and similarity underlie the assets of this relationship. If both lead satisfying lives, neither of these two will ever get in the way of the other’s dreams and aspirations. This is not only because they seek different things in different ways, but also under easy conditions neither is likely to make unnecessary demands on the other or seek to control the relationship.

It is essential however, that both partners are satisfied with their lives and goals. For when they are not, they can indeed begin to pull each other into the mire of their own dissatisfaction. The INTJ can do this without any awareness that they are affecting the other person by their behaviour, and the ENFP can easily begin to seek from their partner the validation they ought to be looking for elsewhere. Unfortunately the INTJ is extremely susceptible to the unhappiness of others around them, and closes down in a stressful atmosphere, while the ENFP will completely frustrate themselves through their unfulfilled expectations of their partner.

Nevertheless, put together the right way, this relationship can be one of the most creative possible. Where the respective thinking and feeling functions of the pair combine to enhance and rationalize their outer and inner intuitive recognitions, great creative works can be achieved. But such a marriage of minds does not often come naturally and where it does not, a considerable level of self understanding is demanded before either of these two begin to see the potentials in each other’s ways and ideas.

All too easily can these two simply decide to let each other do their own thing and not take an interest in each other’s area of expression. This does not mean that the personal relationship will be in any way unhappy. It means that it will not have the capacity to further enhance the creative expressions of either partner, even if, within a marriage relationship for instance, such an easy acceptance of each other’s differing paths might be considered a very positive value.

At the most negative end of this scale however, this relationship can all too easily fall into the “whatever” mode mentioned above, where even such communal things as meals, household chores, workplace tidiness etc, become disregarded and considered of little concern, if at all. If things get to this stage, then this “relationship” can deteriorate to little more than a loose arrangement between virtual strangers.

Making Things Work

The key to this relationship is the recognition that the ways and drives of the one can balance and enhance those of the other if given their right place and are understood not as demands for change, but as potentials for development.

The ENFP has a great ability to see and utilize the possibilities of a situation and the potentials of others. Above all they should apply this skill when considering their INTJ partner and their very different outlook. By recognizing and supporting the potentials the INTJ so often hides from the world, they can become the catalyst for their expression in ways the INTJ alone would not naturally be comfortable with.

It is not that the INTJ does not see the possibilities in things - quite the opposite: they see very deeply into such things, but they are generally only concerned with the effects and uses of their abilities within their own private world.

Conversely, the INTJ’s almost magical ability to predict the result of any given set of circumstances can be of great benefit to the ENFP, who more often than not, will take on a new job, relationship or project without considering the pitfalls or those equally possible outcomes which differ considerably from the one they believe they are seeking.

While at first, neither party in this relationship is likely to naturally seek out these respective skills in their partner, in sharing their views of every situation they will find the necessary information is there, and acting upon it, even in minor ways, will build a trust which will allow greater mutual benefits to develop.

“I’ve got to get out there... it’s all falling apart! - Relax... its all under control.”

One of the most challenging areas within this relationship is the great difference between the working and social environments each type is comfortable with, and the amount of time they each need to spend within these environments.

Socially, the ENFP is an endless connection maker, who has their eye on the possibilities such connections can have for the future of current enterprises, whereas the INTJ will shudder in horror at the mere thought of “networking” and what it entails. What makes the ENFP shudder in horror is the thought of sitting alone and achieving nothing of value – which is all too easily how they image much of the INTJ way of passing the time.

One of the remarkable things about this relationship is just how easily the one can provide the other with some of the very things they each spend so much time trying to find within their differing areas of connection. “Why didn’t you ask me? is a common response after either one of these has explained how much time and effort they have put in trying to find a way of getting a particular job done.

The creative and entrepreneurial talents of the ENFP require the “can do” abilities of others, whilst the INTJ requires the representational skills of others to get their carefully constructed ideas and understandings translated into reality. Building the bridge of trust between these two is not easy at first, for they each see the others areas of competence as strange and somewhat irrelevant to their life’s purposes. But the INTJ really does have a problem getting people on their side, and the ENFP often has a problem getting things done to suit them. The suggestion that they need other people to turn their ideas into reality will often be met with a non-committal INTJ shrug or ENFP voluble frustration.

Right down to the minutiae of daily life there are areas where both of these two can provide the answer to a situation neither can easily provide for themselves. Understanding this leads to a give and take situation in which both come to rely on each other’s very different skills in areas where they would once have merely sighed in frustration, and just this understanding alone can lead toward the development of a highly creative relationship.

Below are some suggestions to help advance development in this relationship.

Disturbance and discomfort

The situations which disturb the necessary feelings of personal comfort or security each of these types require can be very different and so become the main contributors to the relationship issues that might arise between them. For this reason it is important for both to realize and adjust to the others comfort and security needs.

• The INTJ needs to understand that ENFP derives a great deal of their fulfillment and comfort from human interactions within their social and working environment, and that should they complain about not being able to get out and do what they want to do they are feeling uncomfortable, in just the same way the INTJ feels when they required to attend an office party. The easiest way to deal with these differences in this relationship is to allow them to be – for it is natural for the INTJ to need time alone, just as natural as it is for the ENFP to spend a lot of time with others. Such needs should never be interpreted by either party as a problem with their personal relationship – nor should such differences ever be allowed to become a problem. Both parties should try to arrange their lives in ways as to have time for mutual interaction in an area of common interest which does not flow from their different private and working environments, so that both have a place in which time out is time shared creatively rather than wasted.
• The brain uses an immense amount of the body’s available energy and the more it needs to focus upon a problem or situation for any length of time, the more energy it uses. Working in their dominant mode both the ISFJ and the INTJ flow freely and easily and enjoy themselves. For example, the ENFP might spend the whole day organizing a school play while the INTJ might spend the same time fiddling with the pa system and getting the microphones in the right place and generally making things happen for their partner. Either way, both will come home refreshed and ready for the evening with a feeling of accomplishment and only a sense of physical tiredness. But place either one in a situation where constant attention to their secondary function is required and you have recipe for mental tiredness. Should the ENFP spend a full day dealing with family or friends and their problems, or should the INTJ have to write a considered thesis on some technical subject, then by the end of the time they will be both mentally exhausted. What the INTJ must recognize here is that while it appears that their ENFP partner was simply out relaxing with family or friends, they were actually full on in feeling mode and that this is a form of work to them. At the same time, the ENFP needs to realize that “just sitting in front of the computer all day” can indeed make their partner extremely tired. At the end of such periods of mental work, both partners must realize other’s need is to relax and not have further feeling or thinking demanded of them until they have rested, or perhaps spent some time “de-stressing” in one of their favourite “dominant mode” pastimes.

Emotional and Intellectual issues

• INTJ people aren’t good at qualifying feelings. It’s all emotion to them and it comes out that way. The ENFP needs to realize that the sometimes seemingly immature reactions of the INTJ to feeling situations is natural and does not indicate any lack of maturity. The fact that they see far more easily this weaker side of their partner rather than their mature intellectual and spiritual understandings is simply because they are naturally focused upon those issues and sensitivities which are not well developed in the INTJ. At such times when this focus breeds a problem the ENFP needs to re-align their responses and appeal to the reasoning and intuitive powers of their partner and try not to allow themselves to react to their seemingly inferior way of dealing with an emotional situation. Try and take the lead and be your partners guide rather than demanding them to be as astute as you are in such situations.
• ENFP people aren’t good at abstract thinking or dealing with the unrelenting minutiae of physical reality. It’s all a frustrating and sometimes frightening secret to them and it comes out that way. The INTJ needs to realize that the sometimes childlike reactions of the ENFP to situations that require clear analytical thinking or the abstract visualization of many physical variables doesn’t indicate a lack of maturity. The fact that they see far more easily the childlike side of their partner rather than their mature awareness of the creative possibilities in the world or their feelings is simply because they are naturally focused upon those issues and sensitivities which are not well developed in the ENFP. At such times when this focus breeds a problem the INTJ needs to re-align their responses by focusing on the possible answers to the immediate situation and the feelings of their partner and not to allow themselves to react to their partner’s seemingly inferior way of dealing with situation which demands concrete logical and structural adjustments. Try and take the lead and guide your partner rather than demanding them to be as astute as yourself in such situations.

Keeping it Together

In the above we have offered some basic ideas keyed to the most natural difficulties these two types will find together. Remember that these dynamics operate in every situation and try to locate them in each and every one of your relationship difficulties. Every time you can make a new adjustment from realizing how these difference work between you will bring a benefit. Soon you will see that working with, rather than against your partner’s way of being will actually promote your own interests and the return you get from them. This is one of the most important benefits which can flow from this relationship; that it flows naturally if allowed, and is the most wonderful thing about this particular pairing of types. way of being will actually promote your own interests and the return you get from them. This is one of the most important benefits which can flow from this relationship; that it flows naturally if allowed, and is the most wonderful thing about this particular pairing of types.

 

[ImNoBozo]

There seems to be your problem.

On a serious note, why do you judge him based on what his ex says about him? What does he say?

A list that I can make of myself.

1. I don't know how to deal with people.
2. I don't know how to say NO to people, see point nr 1.
3. I do lie to myself (serious soul searching, after numerous XXFPs told me that)
4. I don't know how to use Fi
5. My viewpoint will never be your viewpoint.
6. I don't know how to be honest with myself. I don't want to rather, because I don't want to deal with feelings, they are just emotions to me.
7. When I become my shadow, the ESFP (negative one). Dealing in absolutes are fuelled by my child like Fi. (in that mode) overindulging and with weak values.
8. Feelings (considering other people) are not what I am good at. That would be your department.
9. I accept that I will never be as good as you at what you do best.
10. I need you to understand that I am not you.
11. I have difficulty getting people to agree with me.
12. I talk in general, detail is not my thing. I assume you are following my context.
13. I don't context switch as often as you.

Don't believe me? Hear what these experts have to say... of course in a spoiler.

INTJ / ENFP
The Scientist and the Inspirer

An Introverted/Extraverted Relationship

The level of both harmony and conflict within Introverted/Extraverted relationships can vary considerably, depending on how strongly expressed the introverted and extraverted tendencies are for these types. With very moderate expressions only the general attitudes, desires and interests of the parties involved are likely to be factors of importance affecting the relationship, and these will depend more upon the specific functions of the personalities and less upon their introverted or extraverted expression. In other cases however, particularly where both parties have a strongly expressed dominant focus, the impact of Introversion vs Extraversion becomes an important factor affecting all the functional dynamics of the relationship. For this reason overly general statements about the functional give and take within such relationships can mislead when such strong differences of viewpoint exist. We have tried to take this into account in the following, but it is worth recognizing that in some instances what might appear as a conflict in one relationship can be a source of harmony in another.

INTJ-ENFP Relationship Dynamics

The qualities and dynamics of this relationship will be highly dependant upon external factors such as the kind work each person does and the socio/economic space in which the relationship continues. There are many reasons why this relationship can just “fall together” at first, but as time goes on both partners will find it requires attention to detail and a careful and ongoing adjustment to each other’s needs.

The INTJ and the ENFP are very different kinds of people, with very different needs and viewpoints. This polarity can either work to quickly produce an easy complementary relationship or it can – and will – produce difficulties, both possibilities resulting from just how independent and fulfilled each partner is within their own personal life.

Dependence and expectation are the main cause of issues in this relationship, although even in a relationship free of such factors there will always remain the opposing effect, which is driven by both the INTJ and the ENFP problem of letting things that are unimportant to them fall into “whatever” mode. So this relationship is first and foremost one which requires ongoing attention; not only attention to the needs of the other, but also to ones own.

“To be or not to be... that is the question...”

Inner feeling combines with extroverted intuition in a way to drive the ENFP into the world in search of validation. Virtually anything can bring the necessary sense of alignment to their values and inspirations provided it offers a path which promises to lead ever onwards toward greater fulfilment. Where one path fails, they will soon find another which leads on toward the peaks of life.

They are not searching necessarily for experiences, but for the completeness of their recognitions of the world – for the ultimate situation, for the perfect alignment of the world outside themselves and the values within – and the kinds of behaviour this engenders in the ENFP can drive an INTJ crazy.

“Running about like chook with it’s head cut off” they will mutter as they watch from their quiet corner of the world and wonder if any of this rushing about is ever going to achieve anything. But without understanding the necessary feeling values which attach to ENFP behaviour, they will miss the point – for what is being achieved is happening right under their noses without them seeing it.

In a similar but inverted way, thinking combines with inner intuition in the INTJ to drive an endless search for realization of the essence or truth of things. Inspiration for this search comes from within and leads outward to the world where thinking is applied to the how and why of things. The INTJ sees that so many things are possible, but knows there can be only one truth – in which all things fit into a system of perfect alignment and correctness.

Need drives them to validate the world and the behaviour of others by its alignment to this sense of rightness, and they can do this sitting in a chair under a tree, riding on a crowded bus, or just laying in bed. All they need is the information. “Just give me the facts, ma’am... I’ll do the rest.” The idea that one might derive personal validation and satisfaction from arriving at a perfect geometrical alignment between outer facts and some inexpressible inner realization strikes the ENFP as such a strange, cold and valueless form of existence that they entirely miss its similarity to their own behaviour – where their own worldly search for validation is also essentially a method of finding a perfect and alignment between the possibilities they see in the world and a set of values no less fixed than the INTJ logical framework.

“Talk about chalk and cheese... they must drive each other crazy.”

Both difference and similarity underlie the assets of this relationship. If both lead satisfying lives, neither of these two will ever get in the way of the other’s dreams and aspirations. This is not only because they seek different things in different ways, but also under easy conditions neither is likely to make unnecessary demands on the other or seek to control the relationship.

It is essential however, that both partners are satisfied with their lives and goals. For when they are not, they can indeed begin to pull each other into the mire of their own dissatisfaction. The INTJ can do this without any awareness that they are affecting the other person by their behaviour, and the ENFP can easily begin to seek from their partner the validation they ought to be looking for elsewhere. Unfortunately the INTJ is extremely susceptible to the unhappiness of others around them, and closes down in a stressful atmosphere, while the ENFP will completely frustrate themselves through their unfulfilled expectations of their partner.

Nevertheless, put together the right way, this relationship can be one of the most creative possible. Where the respective thinking and feeling functions of the pair combine to enhance and rationalize their outer and inner intuitive recognitions, great creative works can be achieved. But such a marriage of minds does not often come naturally and where it does not, a considerable level of self understanding is demanded before either of these two begin to see the potentials in each other’s ways and ideas.

All too easily can these two simply decide to let each other do their own thing and not take an interest in each other’s area of expression. This does not mean that the personal relationship will be in any way unhappy. It means that it will not have the capacity to further enhance the creative expressions of either partner, even if, within a marriage relationship for instance, such an easy acceptance of each other’s differing paths might be considered a very positive value.

At the most negative end of this scale however, this relationship can all too easily fall into the “whatever” mode mentioned above, where even such communal things as meals, household chores, workplace tidiness etc, become disregarded and considered of little concern, if at all. If things get to this stage, then this “relationship” can deteriorate to little more than a loose arrangement between virtual strangers.

Making Things Work

The key to this relationship is the recognition that the ways and drives of the one can balance and enhance those of the other if given their right place and are understood not as demands for change, but as potentials for development.

The ENFP has a great ability to see and utilize the possibilities of a situation and the potentials of others. Above all they should apply this skill when considering their INTJ partner and their very different outlook. By recognizing and supporting the potentials the INTJ so often hides from the world, they can become the catalyst for their expression in ways the INTJ alone would not naturally be comfortable with.

It is not that the INTJ does not see the possibilities in things - quite the opposite: they see very deeply into such things, but they are generally only concerned with the effects and uses of their abilities within their own private world.

Conversely, the INTJ’s almost magical ability to predict the result of any given set of circumstances can be of great benefit to the ENFP, who more often than not, will take on a new job, relationship or project without considering the pitfalls or those equally possible outcomes which differ considerably from the one they believe they are seeking.

While at first, neither party in this relationship is likely to naturally seek out these respective skills in their partner, in sharing their views of every situation they will find the necessary information is there, and acting upon it, even in minor ways, will build a trust which will allow greater mutual benefits to develop.

“I’ve got to get out there... it’s all falling apart! - Relax... its all under control.”

One of the most challenging areas within this relationship is the great difference between the working and social environments each type is comfortable with, and the amount of time they each need to spend within these environments.

Socially, the ENFP is an endless connection maker, who has their eye on the possibilities such connections can have for the future of current enterprises, whereas the INTJ will shudder in horror at the mere thought of “networking” and what it entails. What makes the ENFP shudder in horror is the thought of sitting alone and achieving nothing of value – which is all too easily how they image much of the INTJ way of passing the time.

One of the remarkable things about this relationship is just how easily the one can provide the other with some of the very things they each spend so much time trying to find within their differing areas of connection. “Why didn’t you ask me? is a common response after either one of these has explained how much time and effort they have put in trying to find a way of getting a particular job done.

The creative and entrepreneurial talents of the ENFP require the “can do” abilities of others, whilst the INTJ requires the representational skills of others to get their carefully constructed ideas and understandings translated into reality. Building the bridge of trust between these two is not easy at first, for they each see the others areas of competence as strange and somewhat irrelevant to their life’s purposes. But the INTJ really does have a problem getting people on their side, and the ENFP often has a problem getting things done to suit them. The suggestion that they need other people to turn their ideas into reality will often be met with a non-committal INTJ shrug or ENFP voluble frustration.

Right down to the minutiae of daily life there are areas where both of these two can provide the answer to a situation neither can easily provide for themselves. Understanding this leads to a give and take situation in which both come to rely on each other’s very different skills in areas where they would once have merely sighed in frustration, and just this understanding alone can lead toward the development of a highly creative relationship.

Below are some suggestions to help advance development in this relationship.

Disturbance and discomfort

The situations which disturb the necessary feelings of personal comfort or security each of these types require can be very different and so become the main contributors to the relationship issues that might arise between them. For this reason it is important for both to realize and adjust to the others comfort and security needs.

• The INTJ needs to understand that ENFP derives a great deal of their fulfillment and comfort from human interactions within their social and working environment, and that should they complain about not being able to get out and do what they want to do they are feeling uncomfortable, in just the same way the INTJ feels when they required to attend an office party. The easiest way to deal with these differences in this relationship is to allow them to be – for it is natural for the INTJ to need time alone, just as natural as it is for the ENFP to spend a lot of time with others. Such needs should never be interpreted by either party as a problem with their personal relationship – nor should such differences ever be allowed to become a problem. Both parties should try to arrange their lives in ways as to have time for mutual interaction in an area of common interest which does not flow from their different private and working environments, so that both have a place in which time out is time shared creatively rather than wasted.
• The brain uses an immense amount of the body’s available energy and the more it needs to focus upon a problem or situation for any length of time, the more energy it uses. Working in their dominant mode both the ISFJ and the INTJ flow freely and easily and enjoy themselves. For example, the ENFP might spend the whole day organizing a school play while the INTJ might spend the same time fiddling with the pa system and getting the microphones in the right place and generally making things happen for their partner. Either way, both will come home refreshed and ready for the evening with a feeling of accomplishment and only a sense of physical tiredness. But place either one in a situation where constant attention to their secondary function is required and you have recipe for mental tiredness. Should the ENFP spend a full day dealing with family or friends and their problems, or should the INTJ have to write a considered thesis on some technical subject, then by the end of the time they will be both mentally exhausted. What the INTJ must recognize here is that while it appears that their ENFP partner was simply out relaxing with family or friends, they were actually full on in feeling mode and that this is a form of work to them. At the same time, the ENFP needs to realize that “just sitting in front of the computer all day” can indeed make their partner extremely tired. At the end of such periods of mental work, both partners must realize other’s need is to relax and not have further feeling or thinking demanded of them until they have rested, or perhaps spent some time “de-stressing” in one of their favourite “dominant mode” pastimes.

Emotional and Intellectual issues

• INTJ people aren’t good at qualifying feelings. It’s all emotion to them and it comes out that way. The ENFP needs to realize that the sometimes seemingly immature reactions of the INTJ to feeling situations is natural and does not indicate any lack of maturity. The fact that they see far more easily this weaker side of their partner rather than their mature intellectual and spiritual understandings is simply because they are naturally focused upon those issues and sensitivities which are not well developed in the INTJ. At such times when this focus breeds a problem the ENFP needs to re-align their responses and appeal to the reasoning and intuitive powers of their partner and try not to allow themselves to react to their seemingly inferior way of dealing with an emotional situation. Try and take the lead and be your partners guide rather than demanding them to be as astute as you are in such situations.
• ENFP people aren’t good at abstract thinking or dealing with the unrelenting minutiae of physical reality. It’s all a frustrating and sometimes frightening secret to them and it comes out that way. The INTJ needs to realize that the sometimes childlike reactions of the ENFP to situations that require clear analytical thinking or the abstract visualization of many physical variables doesn’t indicate a lack of maturity. The fact that they see far more easily the childlike side of their partner rather than their mature awareness of the creative possibilities in the world or their feelings is simply because they are naturally focused upon those issues and sensitivities which are not well developed in the ENFP. At such times when this focus breeds a problem the INTJ needs to re-align their responses by focusing on the possible answers to the immediate situation and the feelings of their partner and not to allow themselves to react to their partner’s seemingly inferior way of dealing with situation which demands concrete logical and structural adjustments. Try and take the lead and guide your partner rather than demanding them to be as astute as yourself in such situations.

Keeping it Together

In the above we have offered some basic ideas keyed to the most natural difficulties these two types will find together. Remember that these dynamics operate in every situation and try to locate them in each and every one of your relationship difficulties. Every time you can make a new adjustment from realizing how these difference work between you will bring a benefit. Soon you will see that working with, rather than against your partner’s way of being will actually promote your own interests and the return you get from them. This is one of the most important benefits which can flow from this relationship; that it flows naturally if allowed, and is the most wonderful thing about this particular pairing of types. way of being will actually promote your own interests and the return you get from them. This is one of the most important benefits which can flow from this relationship; that it flows naturally if allowed, and is the most wonderful thing about this particular pairing of types.

I never judged him based on what his ex said about him... I don't know his ex, I never met her. What are you talking about?? I never said anything like that.

 

[chubber]

I never judged him based on what his ex said about him... I don't know his ex, I never met her. What are you talking about?? I never said anything like that.

What am I talking about? Have a look here...

Isn't this like cheating? He seems like he's emotionally involved with both me and his ex at this point and it's disgusting that he tells me he's not. His ex, judging from her comments on her business facebook page, clearly wants him still, the heart emojis by his name? Come on. Who even knows if he's even sleeping with her. And he's just as supportive of her, "liking" all of her posts on her page.

I don't even know what to do, or how to overcome this. I've already asked him twice if he's seeing someone else and he said "no". What am I suppose to say, I've been stalking your facebook page and learned otherwise? The information is crystal clear, right there, it's nothing I'm imagining or weaving together.

You claim you don't judge him, but you do judge her. You are "weaving" things together because of how you judge her.

 

[INTP]

I am going to advocate the direct approach. Tell him you were looking at his Facebook profile and noticed he still talks to his ex-girlfriend. Ask him, "Are you still interested in her? Are you still involved with her?" Then, wait to hear the answer. Ask when you can actually see his face so you can read the response as well visually.

The problem with this sort of approach is that it creates an situation where he can make excuses, which he certainly will if he is just playing. So you are pretty much guaranteed to get one answer type of answer "no im not interested on her" and then you need to figure out if its a lie or not, which basically is the same as no answer. Smarter move would be to place some trap(and not let him know of it ofc) that would alter his answer if he were telling the truth or lying. Something like not telling him that she has seen him talking with his ex, then asking not something like do you still like your ex, but more like prime the situation first like "how/why did you broke up?" and if says its something bad she did, then ask something like "that sounds so bad that you must not want to be in any interaction with her, right?". Then if he wants to lie about his ex, he will lie about not wanting to interact with her anymore, but if he is not lying he feels more free to admit that he has forgiven her. Maybe put few of something similar to this one and you can tell his intentions, just be sure that he has no idea that you know the real answers to your questions, and dont do it too much or he will become suspicious of you, like why you are all of a sdden asking all sorts of questions like that.

 

[chubber]

The problem with this sort of approach is that it creates an situation where he can make excuses, which he certainly will if he is just playing. So you are pretty much guaranteed to get one answer type of answer "no im not interested on her" and then you need to figure out if its a lie or not, which basically is the same as no answer. Smarter move would be to place some trap(and not let him know of it ofc) that would alter his answer if he were telling the truth or lying. Something like not telling him that she has seen him talking with his ex, then asking not something like do you still like your ex, but more like prime the situation first like "how/why did you broke up?" and if says its something bad she did, then ask something like "that sounds so bad that you must not want to be in any interaction with her, right?". Then if he wants to lie about his ex, he will lie about not wanting to interact with her anymore, but if he is not lying he feels more free to admit that he has forgiven her. Maybe put few of something similar to this one and you can tell his intentions, just be sure that he has no idea that you know the real answers to your questions, and dont do it too much or he will become suspicious of you, like why you are all of a sdden asking all sorts of questions like that.

I think she does have a point, ExTJs will have a quick response and can lie their way easily. Similar to what you are expressing here. IxTJs not so much.

 

[INTP]

I think she does have a point, ExTJs will have a quick response and can lie their way easily. Similar to what you are expressing here. IxTJs not so much.

Do you think that INTJ would not tell a lie(regardless if its a good lie or not) if not lying means to ruin a thing he wants to keep on going? And since you will reply with ofc he would lie, then we get to the questions of telling lie from the truth again. Now what if she asks a direct question and it takes 2 minutes for him to reply? How can you tell if he is just bad at expressing stuff, was doing something else and couldnt reply immediately or trying to make up a lie? Then if you ask him "what took you so long to reply on a simply question?" and he replies with "i spilled coffee", how do you tell if thats a lie? In the end whether or not you think IXTJs are good or bad liars, it comes down to trust, trust that should not be given to someone who you never even met..
So could you tell me exactly why do you think that direct question that will give always the same answer, but it could be a lie would be better than a question that would tell if he is lying or not?

 

[chubber]

Do you think that INTJ would not tell a lie(regardless if its a good lie or not) if not lying means to ruin a thing he wants to keep on going? And since you will reply with ofc he would lie, then we get to the questions of telling lie from the truth again. Now what if she asks a direct question and it takes 2 minutes for him to reply? How can you tell if he is just bad at expressing stuff, was doing something else and couldnt reply immediately or trying to make up a lie? Then if you ask him "what took you so long to reply on a simply question?" and he replies with "i spilled coffee", how do you tell if thats a lie? In the end whether or not you think IXTJs are good or bad liars, it comes down to trust, trust that should not be given to someone who you never even met..
So could you tell me exactly why do you think that direct question that will give always the same answer, but it could be a lie would be better than a question that would tell if he is lying or not?

I do think that IxTJs lie, it's the way they lie. But that's not the point here. It is what they (IxTJs) do when they lie and further their reaction. They, the xNFPs, can read that very well.

Your way isn't wrong, just not the best in this situation.

 

[INTP]

Your way isn't wrong, just not the best in this situation.

What makes it worse if it gives more accurate results? Also i should remind you that ENFPs want to believe good in others(especially those they like very much), so even if there would be some suspicion about the answer, it could still get through with some believable excuses. My way wouldnt leave any room for doubt or excuses(if done properly), so it doesent make any sense why it would be worse.. But if you have decided that the direct question way is better, im sure you can explain the reasons behind your conclusion, if not, then your opinion isnt relevant because it doesent have any basis on reason(sorry, but intuitive/feeling type of rationale just doesent work in this sort of situation).

 

[chubber]

What makes it worse if it gives more accurate results? Also i should remind you that ENFPs want to believe good in others(especially those they like very much), so even if there would be some suspicion about the answer, it could still get through with some believable excuses. My way wouldnt leave any room for doubt or excuses(if done properly), so it doesent make any sense why it would be worse.. But if you have decided that the direct question way is better, im sure you can explain the reasons behind your conclusion, if not, then your opinion isnt relevant because it doesent have any basis on reason(sorry, but intuitive/feeling type of rationale just doesent work in this sort of situation).

I can't explain it, you're right. I am terrible at explaining it. But that's just it, they are very good at reading when the IxTJ shows their shadow, because we are weak.

You can accept that they are not as good as you at what you do, as you are not as good at what they do. They can recognise, what you cannot?

 

[INTP]

I can't explain it, you're right. I am terrible at explaining it. But that's just it, they are very good at reading when the IxTJ shows their shadow, because we are weak.

You can accept that they are not as good as you at what you do, as you are not as good at what they do. They can recognise, what you cannot?

The INTJ in this case has experience with ENFPs, which means that he can be very good at saying the right things. ENFPs can be easily fooled if you know what you are doing(i was raised by one, so if any i know). This ENFP havent even met this INTJ in real life and the interactions they might have about this subject is over interwebs, which makes it even easier to lie, maybe there is a webcam that can make it a bit harder, but still easier than face to face. Like i said, even if there is some suspicion about whether or not he is telling a lie, its left on suspicion, few nice words can overthrow the suspicion.
The bottom line is this:

Direct question leaves room for lies and its hard to get anything more than a suspicion from this.
Indirect question(s) leaves no room for lies or suspicion.

= indirect is superior

 

[Starry]

What am I talking about? Have a look here...



You claim you don't judge him, but you do judge her. You are "weaving" things together because of how you judge her.

Obviously, I can't speak for ImNoBozo but what I *think* is going on here is that... the word judgment is being used by you in a relatively neutral, straightforward fashion... while her usage is charged with 'righteousness.'

In her world... she doesn't quite have enough information yet to *judge* this INTJ... but she's most certainly judging the ex. Which?

You know, maybe if I wasn't so close in type to ImNoBozo I'd just let this slide but... I have never understood this passing (righteous) judgment on the ex or "other woman" bullshit. And I'm not saying I'm above jealousy. But my jealousy has always stemmed from my misperception of my SO's intentions in response to some other woman's advances and not the other woman's behavior in and of itself.

I acknowledge and publicly admit that 7 causes me to imagine myself as a *real catch* when I'm totally not... but [MENTION=5418]Lady_X[/MENTION] and I have discussed this very thing many times before... Of not experiencing jealousy but respect haha in a "nice work/crafty" kind of way when faced with a determined "other woman."

It's just something I've always wanted so badly to understand and have never once received an answer to. If some other woman succeeds in stealing away the affections of an SO subsequently ending my relationship...then that other woman did me a favor.

^^Anyway, I understand ImNoBozo isn't quite at the stages I'm describing above. And for all the bad press we receive...I do know how decidedly unsuperficial we are when it comes to honoring the sacred connection she describes. I routinely discuss all the unhealthy and destructive reasons why the ENFP 7 avoids commitment and pain but today wish to include this caveat: no one should judge us in the righteously charged sense of the word for so often choosing to wade instead of swim. Or at least qualify the judgment first with the proper measures of how deeply we do feel and how quickly we can drown.

[MENTION=25239]ImNoBozo[/MENTION] if you ask this INTJ a direct question the chances he'll answer with more truth then you originally wanted are extraordinarily high.

 

[Gizmo]

Functionally I don't know why... I'm actually usually a bit worried that I can come off a bit wishy washy. For one; I'm not big into relationships... I get to know someone for a month, and usually we clique well if I stick around that long, but when I get to a point that I realize I'm thinking to much about it... That's when I go distant, and then somewhere in the next month or two I'll be reflecting on memories, and someone will cross my mind... Usually it's a "huh, I wonder how they have been"... And occasionally it's a " Actually I'm not sure why I closed the door, could have been a good thing." That typically turns into to the though of a could be followed by a hopefully not to sporadic text message. To me the distance away only feels like maybe a week... I don't typically recognise how long it's truly been. We are known to hold sincere acquaintances pretty close. As a result it may shed shed light on the saying "time fly's" or "Seems like it was yesterday" never minding how long its actually been... We don't tend to be good at remembering specific days on a calendar unless it's an upcoming task like preparing for a job interview, or to remember a deadline.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Direct question leaves room for lies and its hard to get anything more than a suspicion from this.
Indirect question(s) leaves no room for lies or suspicion.

= indirect is superior

imo, in this situation, an indirect question is nearly useless with an INTJ. Their Ni is thinking of too many possible meanings to why you're asking whatever obsequious question you're asking, as they try to parse whatever vague point you appear to be pressing. It's nearly guaranteed they will conclude incorrectly. Direct questions leave little margin for this type of misread or error.

 

[Coriolis]

imo, in this situation, an indirect question is nearly useless with an INTJ. Their Ni is thinking of too many possible meanings to why you're asking whatever obsequious question you're asking, as they try to parse whatever vague point you appear to be pressing. It's nearly guaranteed they will conclude incorrectly. Direct questions leave little margin for this type of misread or error.

I agree. Give me an indirect question, and if I am trying to be helpful and honest, I may very well not give you the information you are looking for because I misunderstand what you want to know. If I am trying to avoid giving up information or to direct the conversation in a certain way (or be even more manipulative), you have handed me a wildcard that I can twist in any of several directions. It is much harder to do this with direct questions.

 

[chubber]

I agree. Give me an indirect question, and if I am trying to be helpful and honest, I may very well not give you the information you are looking for because I misunderstand what you want to know. If I am trying to avoid giving up information or to direct the conversation in a certain way (or be even more manipulative), you have handed me a wildcard that I can twist in any of several directions. It is much harder to do this with direct questions.

Hence, why I think [MENTION=7595]INTP[/MENTION]'s solution works better on ExTJs (of course with Si/Ni having different outcomes). But his approach would make more sense on them.

 

[chubber]

Obviously, I can't speak for ImNoBozo but what I *think* is going on here is that... the word judgment is being used by you in a relatively neutral, straightforward fashion... while her usage is charged with 'righteousness.'

In her world... she doesn't quite have enough information yet to *judge* this INTJ... but she's most certainly judging the ex. Which?

You know, maybe if I wasn't so close in type to ImNoBozo I'd just let this slide but... I have never understood this passing (righteous) judgment on the ex or "other woman" bullshit. And I'm not saying I'm above jealousy. But my jealousy has always stemmed from my misperception of my SO's intentions in response to some other woman's advances and not the other woman's behavior in and of itself.

I acknowledge and publicly admit that 7 causes me to imagine myself as a *real catch* when I'm totally not... but [MENTION=5418]Lady_X[/MENTION] and I have discussed this very thing many times before... Of not experiencing jealousy but respect haha in a "nice work/crafty" kind of way when faced with a determined "other woman."

It's just something I've always wanted so badly to understand and have never once received an answer to. If some other woman succeeds in stealing away the affections of an SO subsequently ending my relationship...then that other woman did me a favor.

^^Anyway, I understand ImNoBozo isn't quite at the stages I'm describing above. And for all the bad press we receive...I do know how decidedly unsuperficial we are when it comes to honoring the sacred connection she describes. I routinely discuss all the unhealthy and destructive reasons why the ENFP 7 avoids commitment and pain but today wish to include this caveat: no one should judge us in the righteously charged sense of the word for so often choosing to wade instead of swim. Or at least qualify the judgment first with the proper measures of how deeply we do feel and how quickly we can drown.

[MENTION=25239]ImNoBozo[/MENTION] if you ask this INTJ a direct question the chances he'll answer with more truth then you originally wanted are extraordinarily high.

It's also sad, but it is what it is.

 

[Forever]

People can lie on the Internet...

 

[highlander]

I think everything you said makes sense and is really on point.

1) I do not know for sure, but I am almost completely positive he broke up with her. His ex was an ENFP as well. She seems way too interested and up his butt, for me to think it's the other way around. Plus, he told me some of the problems he had with her was watching her openly flirt with other men in front of him, and she wouldn't tone down the flirting. He also told me that she always perceived him as controlling her, he would suggest/advise her on some things, and she would do the exact opposite just to tick him off. It sounded like a volatile relationship.

2) He's an INTJ 6w5 sx/so, and I'm an ENFP 7w6 sx/so, our chemistry is insane and off the charts. We have insane chemistry on the mental/intellectual, emotional, and sexual level. We have not met in person but we video-chatted for like 2 months straight for hours every single day. I think because we are both Head Types on the Enneagram, our connection is more in sync, especially with being both SX types. He told me his ex-girlfriend is an ENFP 4w3, and he feels a better and healthier connection with me than he does with her. I am pretty positive the chemistry is still going to be there when we meet in person, it sounds crazy to everyone, but we have gotten really close, revealing everything to each other. It's a very intimate bond we have established. He even told me himself in a message that he's never had a connection with another person like he has with me, and it's a deep connection he's never experienced before and he knows it's "real".

3) I do plan on kissing and making out with him when we meet, he expressed he wants to do that too. I believe it's one of those situations where I will have to force myself not to sleep with him too soon. Our bond isn't only just on the mental and emotional level, it's on the sexual level as well. There will be flames.

I guess this is the problem with long distance online relationships. You need to meet each other. Is there a reason you can't be physically together?

I don't think I'd be binary in thinking about this - if this, then that, or there is no trust so you don't have a relationship, etc. You both are probably doing the best you can in the circumstances but long distance online seems like it would be a difficult thing.

 

[Destiny]

ENFP female here, recently met this INTJ, hit it off, he directly told me he wants to pursue and date me, I said the feelings are mutual. We met online and video chatted, we live too many states away, I'm suppose to meet him next month in person. We already have insane amounts of chemistry and he even professed to me that he's not had a connection like this before. We used to talk all the time when we first met, now not as much. He said he's been "busy" with his new job.

Well....

I was going through his facebook page and I learned he started talking to me right around the time he broke up with his ex girlfriend (so what am I here, a rebound???). They were together for 1.5 years. They are no longer friends on facebook. However, they are still in touch, he helps her with her business, and I learned this through the facebook business page his ex girlfriend created for his business and that he "liked". He likes all the stuff she posts, and everything. She once posted a pic of him on there, she also posted another pic with his name and heart emoji's next to it. What is that suppose to mean?

Here's what troubles me:

I've asked him on two separate occasions that if he's seeing someone now, he needs to let me know now so I can move on, it's not fair to me to I told him, I said to him I don't want to become more vulnerable and I NEED TO KNOW NOW, I don't like talking to a guy who's involved with another woman or talking to another women (especially his ex!). When I asked him two separate times, he told me he's not involved with anyone else on those two separate times. And all I can think is, "liar".

Isn't this like cheating? He seems like he's emotionally involved with both me and his ex at this point and it's disgusting that he tells me he's not. His ex, judging from her comments on her business facebook page, clearly wants him still, the heart emojis by his name? Come on. Who even knows if he's even sleeping with her. And he's just as supportive of her, "liking" all of her posts on her page.

I don't even know what to do, or how to overcome this. I've already asked him twice if he's seeing someone else and he said "no". What am I suppose to say, I've been stalking your facebook page and learned otherwise? The information is crystal clear, right there, it's nothing I'm imagining or weaving together.

I would never think an INTJ is this dishonest. I'm an ENFP and despite the reputation my type has, I never lie about these things. Am I overreacting here? Why would INTJs keep in touch with ex's this much?

Something smells fishy here.

His actions are contradicting his words. I have this gut feeling that he is still harboring feelings for his ex, and he is only keeping you around because he likes your attention.

And he's been busy with his new job eh? Unbelievable! When a guy truly likes a girl, no matter how busy he is, he will always fork out time from his schedule for her.
My brother for example, he struggles with depression, he worked 6 days a week in a highly stressful job, yet he still has time for his girlfriend.

Since he is keeping you as his option and isn't taking you seriously, I suggest you to keep your options open and date other guys. Tell him that since he isn't ready to commit to you then you want an open relationship and date other guys. Tell him that you will only be exclusive with him once he made up his mind about you.

Also, I highly doubt this has anything to do with him being an INTJ. He just sounds like someone who is lacking integrity

As humans, all of us have this thing known as gut feelings, and I believe that deep down, your gut feeling already knew what happened, hence you created this thread. But you are trying to convince yourself that those gut feelings are inaccurate. I think you should go with your gut feelings instead of second guessing it. People can tell lies, but your gut feeling never lies.

 

[ImNoBozo]

Functionally I don't know why... I'm actually usually a bit worried that I can come off a bit wishy washy. For one; I'm not big into relationships... I get to know someone for a month, and usually we clique well if I stick around that long, but when I get to a point that I realize I'm thinking to much about it... That's when I go distant, and then somewhere in the next month or two I'll be reflecting on memories, and someone will cross my mind... Usually it's a "huh, I wonder how they have been"... And occasionally it's a " Actually I'm not sure why I closed the door, could have been a good thing." That typically turns into to the though of a could be followed by a hopefully not to sporadic text message. To me the distance away only feels like maybe a week... I don't typically recognise how long it's truly been. We are known to hold sincere acquaintances pretty close. As a result it may shed shed light on the saying "time fly's" or "Seems like it was yesterday" never minding how long its actually been... We don't tend to be good at remembering specific days on a calendar unless it's an upcoming task like preparing for a job interview, or to remember a deadline.

I once met an INTJ in my town that I met online, we met up once and we liked each other. I didn't feel a chemistry with him, I believe it's because he was INTJ sp/sx and I'm ENFP sx/so. I didn't like that he was very "soft" and way too shy. We are friends on facebook and continued to keep in touch, I did like talking to him a lot, and I think a chemistry with him could be cultivated overtime.

So I didn't hear from him for months. 6 months later he sends me a facebook message telling me he wants to get together and get to know me well to date, he said that I must have been wondering why he didn't initiate any dates or anything, he said because love and matters of the heart are a big deal to him and he needed time to think things over. I responded with "I'm busy at the moment, but let's get together soon" which never ended up happening. Honestly, by 6 months later, the small amount of interest in him was completely gone. I still adore him as a person and he will always be very dear to me, for some reason.