OrangeAppled
Sugar Hiccup
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2009
- Messages
- 7,626
- MBTI Type
- INFP
- Enneagram
- 4w5
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/sx
I also want to re-address this after a few days distance. Are you simply suggesting more Fi than Ne? I just want to clarify.
No, I just meant that it sounds NFP over NFJ (should = Fi ideals, could = Ne possibilities). I just don't really like to tell anyone exactly what I think their type is anymore, but I'm not against helping them explore ideas.
Are you 4w3? I think NFP 4w3s may find the I/E scale a difficult one to place themselves on. ENFP e4s will seem/feel more introverted as their focus is a motivation involving identity, which requires a lot of introspection and examination of their own fantasies & ideals & inner feelings. However, 3s are concerned with success & being impressive, which can make an INFP 4w3 seem more extroverted at times. They're less oblivious to the external, more ready to put on a show. Just some food for thought.
I'm going to post some Ne, Ni, Fe & Fi type descriptions for you to consider; they echo Jung's pretty well, but are a bit easier to digest. I'd just link them, but they're on another board (soo...copy + paste).
Here's Ne first:
Dr. J. H. van der Hoop - Conscious Orientation said:The vision of the extraverted intuitive individual is directed chiefly on to relationships and circumstances in the external world, which are suddenly seen in a certain context, without his being able to work out how he came to it. This knowledge, and the spontaneous activities in which it is expressed, often prove to be absolutely correct and to the point, when checked by later experience. The extraverted intuitive is also readily able to grasp the views of others. Whereas outwardly directed sensation submits to the guidance of material facts, intuition sees in the external world all manner of connections in an original and personal way, and is charged, as it were, with a mission to realize certain possibilities. These relate particularly to personal development and activity, both for the self and for others, and intuition seeks them everywhere, and has a special flair for finding them. Even in cases in which intuition is not the most important function, it will often provide a solution in circumstances in which none of the other functions can find a way out. Jung writes: “If intuition be the leading function, all ordinary conditions of life seem to be enclosures to which intuition must find a key. It is forever seeking new paths and new possibilities for outward life. For an intuitive person all circumstances soon become a prison, an oppression, and they long for liberation. Things in the outside world seem temporarily to have an exaggerated value, namely, when they can be of use for a solution, or a liberation, or for the discovery of a new possibility. They have, however, scarcely served as steps, or a bridge, when they seem no longer of any value and are cast off as unnecessary ballast. A fact is only valued so long as it opens up new and more important prospects, which in their turn will liberate the individual. Sudden possibilities become compelling motives which the intuitive mind cannot disregard, and for which it may sacrifice everything else.â€
The extraverted intuitive is in many respects the opposite of the introverted instinctive person. Whereas in the latter great passivity and a certain dependence on the environment is found, the extraverted intuitive manifests much spontaneous activity and independence, even to the point of rebelling against any obligation. This may be evident at a very early age. Children of this type are merry and full of the joy of life; but often extremely tiresome. They are always thinking out something fresh, and their imagination continually suggests fresh possibilities. They have a finger in every pie, want to know everything, and at an early age seek to become persons of some influence in their environment. They like to impress others by startling remarks or behaviour, and at an early age want to be something special. Later, also, one finds among these intuitives particularly lively people, active in mind, and expressing themselves with freedom. When they are at the top of their form, there is something radiant and inspiring about them. They are able then to entertain a whole company, and have the art of bringing other people out of themselves. They are fond, also, of making use of this capacity and of being the centre of enthusiasm. They prefer to radiate enthusiasm and to stimulate others, rather than to work something out, or enter on any lasting relationship with anyone. Novelty attracts them, both in people and in things, which makes them extremely changeable. They are often pleasanter with strangers than they are in the home circle. They constantly reveal new facets of their nature, which seem to come to light spontaneously. This was eloquently expressed in the dream of a very intuitive patient. He saw in this dream a large postal delivery van which had met with an accident, and heard the people standing round express their indignation about the reckless driving. It was at the time when these vans had just been introduced. He defended the driver, saying that these chauffeurs had constantly to drive fresh cars, and thus never got to know them properly. Analysis showed that this really represented an excuse for mistakes caused by his own recklessness. He had great difficulty in managing himself, owing to the constant irruption of fresh inspirations and impulses.
Owing to this excessive spontaneity in their nature, extraverted intuitives find it extremely difficult to bind themselves to keep rules or appointments. They cannot always be depended on. Their activity is often very great, but somewhat incalculable. Their whole energy will be concentrated, almost apart from their will, on the opportunity offering at the moment. They like, however, to see quick results, and falling this, their attention is readily distracted to something else. They show more impulsive energy than concentrated will-power. They are stimulated by difficulties, for they are by nature combative. They do not like to admit that they cannot do a thing, and they will discover fresh possibilities where others have failed to get on. Many discoverers and inventors belong to this type, but also the business man, who with great assurance sees new possibilities for extending his business; many lawyers, also, and politicians, even artists who manage to find new modes of expression, possess this mental structure. Among them are found leaders in many fields. In women of this type, intuition plays a part particularly in the establishment of personal relationships and in social contacts. This type of woman is peculiarly successful in initiating and organizing social activities. The pride of these people is that they see possibilities of putting something through which others regard as impossible. They are frequently better at taking the initiative in starting something than at working it out to a finish, while others will be able to profit by their idea.
With intuitive people judgment takes the form of a strong, momentary conviction, which they often express so persuasively that others are influenced by it. Sometimes it is possible to confirm this conviction logically, but not always; and even without such confirmation, such a judgment will for most intuitives be binding. Where the intuitive function is highly developed, it will often be found to be astonishingly correct. But even in such a case, an intuitive may nevertheless be profoundly mistaken, and in the absence of any capacity for rational self-criticism such mistakes will also be made with complete conviction. If he notices his mistake, he is usually very adroit in correcting it or covering it up. For these people are really startlingly clever; they give an impression of making nothing of the difficulties with which others have to struggle; they can get away with anything.
Reason is in intuitive people subordinate to spontaneous inspiration. It is often well developed, but is nevertheless influenced by qualities peculiar to intuition. One of the results of this is a great liveliness and flexibility in reasoning power, and a striving after originality. People of this type are able to converse in a lively way concerning all kinds of problems, and soon come to be regarded in their circle as authorities in any field. Their views often appear original, but they are frequently taken over from other people and cleverly made use of. At the same time they are apt to be ill-considered, and are seldom, if at all, elaborated into useful ideas. Thought is for these people nothing but a means to attain some effect; it is never an end in itself, as with the intellectual person who seeks in it some foundation for his life. At school, children of this type are the despair of the teacher, because while they show clear evidence of good reasoning powers, it is difficult to persuade them to make use of them and to develop them, unless they can see some immediate advantage from so doing. If they have promised themselves to fulfil some purpose, or if their competitive interest has been aroused, they may occasionally distinguish themselves in the intellectual sphere; but in thought itself they find only moderate gratification. Many intellectual perceptions seem to come to them, as it were, unbidden; but if this does not happen, they generally fight shy of the trouble which it will cost them to master anything. Hence there is often something fragmentary about their knowledge. They will let contradictions stand side by side unresolved without being troubled by them, and in their theorizing they are apt to be very inconsistent. Their knowledge is not regulated by any objective system, but develops in line with their personal experiences and needs. Thus a certain ego-centricity will be evident. Since they must always allow some scope for inspiration, they will never tie themselves up too closely with formulations and rules. Room must be left for further possibilities. This occasionally gives an impression of insincerity, and may indeed lead to it. But if this characteristic is kept under control, it will imply a wide understanding, and receptivity to the views of others. This quality enables them to contribute a great deal in scientific and practical problems towards the examination of new points of view, and to bringing people of various kinds together. The special qualities in the thinking of such an individual are well illustrated by Count Keyserling.
Feeling, like reason, may play a large or a small part in the lives of intuitives, but it also will be under the influence of their peculiar spontaneity. Here, also, there will be found great liveliness and flexibility in the feelings, which are very individual in their mode of expression. Many clever people belong to this type, and the majority of artists. There is a lively expression of feeling, but it does not last long, the intuitive person being more concerned with expressing himself, and making a strong momentary impression on others, than with the formation of a lasting relationship. To this type, also, belong those people who carry on entire conversations without paying the slightest attention to the replies or remarks of the other person. When they do want to stimulate some response, it is usually with some special intention, and not because they want a closer personal contact. They shrink from intimate relationships, owing to a fear of limiting thereby their freedom to act in accordance with their intuitions. As a rule, they are on friendly terms with a large number of people, and have a wide circle of acquaintances, but no really intimate friends of either sex. Their surface of contact with others is limited, but intense, and at the same time mobile. This mobility makes it appear wider than it is, while hindering any more intimate tie. It is a characteristic which enables them to evade with considerable skill conflicts both within themselves and with others. A joke or a compliment will be made to distract attention from any difficulty or contradiction. The consequences of feeling will always be avoided, if in any way possible. As a result, there is at times with people of this type a tendency to play with feelings: they prefer them in the form of fireworks, rather than as aflame. If they should be caught up in them, it is usually to some extent against their will.
The result of this attitude is the same as where thinking is concerned, a marked ego-centricity in the emotional life. Feeling is not for them a sphere of influence, whose laws they accept, but a playground for their own personal opportunities, and the ego is the determining factor. The weak point in the emotional life of the extraverted intuitive is his vanity. His enthusiasm is usually only aroused by something in which he himself can play an important part. He is thrilled by other people only when they have some value for his personal life, or, more especially, when they appreciate something in him. If his vanity is wounded, he will generally not let it be seen at once. He will answer to a criticism only if directly challenged; otherwise he will prefer to keep out of the way of the critic, or himself will assume a very critical attitude. Here the effect of vanity is in contradiction to that chivalrous generosity which in other circumstances bids him make allowances for mistakes and faults in others.
This tendency to keep at a distance and to avoid conflicts, in the sphere of feeling as in the sphere of thought, is associated with a certain insecurity, concealed behind an appearance of decisiveness. These people are sometimes conscious of this sense of insecurity, but sometimes not. Its source lies in the dependence of intuitive people on images. Adaptation, based on clearly perceived images, seems to them to be safer and more exact than other modes of orientation based more on trial and error; but this is only so long as these images and the connections they express are not questioned. When this happens, the suspicion dawns on them that these images are not the facts themselves, and that things may possibly be other than they appear. The customary assurance of the intuitive individual then forsakes him, and he will be apt to try and escape both facts and arguments based on reason or feeling. The aspect of life which the intuitive finds it most difficult to accept is that which is most congenial to the instinctive individual. The facts of the external world, and physical and instinctual needs, are likely to be the greatest hindrance to anyone whose constant aim it is to realize fresh possibilities. This is particularly true of the compelling aspect of his instinctual needs; such people often show a compulsive tendency to deny their own bodily and instinctual needs, even to an extreme degree. When consumed with zeal for their work, they will, for example, easily forget to eat or sleep until exhaustion overcomes them. As a rule, too, they take no trouble in the reasonable ordering of their sexual life, with the result that their sexual impulses take them unawares. They find the instinctive side of life somewhat disturbing, and prefer to ignore it.