What's with Social Justice Warriors?

[yeghor]

It kind of makes you wonder, this guy turns up and is singing precisely, or seemingly so, from the Mole Hymn sheet, either Mole had more influence that we realized or the same source feeding Mole has been feeding these guys too.

Its like go team Klan Troll or something.

You seem to have a personal grudge against him.

 

[ceecee]

I meant language is a living organism and artificial changes to it cannot be introduced or forced, they have to be adopted by the speakers naturally to take root. That requires the change to stem from a need felt or experienced by a majority.

The problem is that because of Ne, their gender identity in their mind is constantly changing so there is no way for the outsiders to know what gender they are feeling like at any given moment. So maybe it is they who should accommodate others in this case.

When to know if the mistake is not genuine, if they repeated it with a smug face when I corrected them, I would think it is deliberate. If I asked them to address me as "they" they would probably say "wtf?".

In the video below (when you play it), I would address the people as follows:

1) She but very difficult to tell apart, if they corrected me, I would not hesitate to address them as he
2) Definitely she
3) She
4) He

I realize that you have probably never encountered a non-gender binary person in your life. Your only exposure is via You Tube and other right wing pundits, which is typical for anyone as perpetually outraged, such as yourself. Any real life opportunity you may have you would likely run from. This is why your opinions are so distorted and wrong.

 

[yeghor]

I realize that you have probably never encountered a gender binary person in your life. Your only exposure is via You Tube and other right wing pundits, which is typical for anyone as perpetually outraged, such as yourself. Any real life opportunity you may have you would likely run from. This is why your opinions are so distorted and wrong.

I just do not like fanatics.

 

[ceecee]

I just do not like fanatics.

They're not. They're people.

 

[yeghor]

They're not. They're people.

Well some people happen to be fanatics.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

 

[Lark]

You seem to have a personal grudge against him.

Less him than what he was channelling.

- - - Updated - - -

Well some people happen to be fanatics.

The vast right wing conspiracy is a bigger problem just right now.

 

[Coriolis]

I just do not like fanatics.

If you call someone "she" and they ask you to call them "he" instead, would you consider them a fanatic?

 

[Lexicon]

I just do not like fanatics.

You’ve been railing against this since yesterday. Seems like it’d take far less energy to simply respect an individual’s pronoun preference. The world isn’t forcing you. They’re merely pointing out that it doesn’t cost much— if anything— to be compassionate, even if you can’t relate or understand.

 

[The Cat]

If you call someone "she" and they ask you to call them "he" instead, would you consider them a fanatic?

Or god forbid..."Them" I for the life of me cant figure out what the big deal about using someone's chosen pronouns. Refusing to do so doesnt make these folks seem like they have any sort of power over anyone else, just a sad lack of self control and self awareness... -_-

 

[EcK]

Or god forbid..."Them" I for the life of me cant figure out what the big deal about using someone's chosen pronouns. Refusing to do so doesnt make these folks seem like they have any sort of power over anyone else, just a sad lack of self control and self awareness... -_-

Well there are at least 3 levels to this :

societal:
I would think most people would have an issue with being forced by law / private companies that have become public squares (social media) etc. to curtail their language about what is to them (and to a biologist) objective reality.

parental: I think a lot of parents would also take issue with the normalization of that stuff as previous research etc. shows pretty clearly that it's overall better for boys not to be told that they can are a girl because they said they liked dolls that one time. The increased rates of suicide pre or post-op and a large amount of gender confusion or whatever you want to call it that resolves itself on its own in early adulthood would seem to indicate that being trans is not something you'd want to encourage in a child - even if it means that some biologically predetermined trans people might have a harder time (if there is such a thing, not saying there isn't just that I don't know). In the same way while there isn't anything morally wrong with being gay you wouldn't want to outright encourage kids to be homosexual for no good reason. If they are meant to be they will be, if not why force it given the life complications it brings relative to heterosexuality.


everyday interactions with regular folks: talking about 1 to 1 interaction with actual humans not involving ideology, politics & one's views on clinical psychology I have no issue calling people whatever they want and I don't care who and how people want to sex each other. If I thought that the person doing it is just seeking attention rather than expressing a genuine need to be recognized as whatever gender then I would probably just not interact with them in the first place - so the problem sorts itself out.

 

[The Cat]

Well there are at least 3 levels to this :

societal:
I would think most people would have an issue with being forced by law / private companies that have become public squares (social media) etc. to curtail their language about what is to them (and to a biologist) objective reality.

parental: I think a lot of parents would also take issue with the normalization of that stuff as previous research etc. shows pretty clearly that it's overall better for boys not to be told that they can are a girl because they said they liked dolls that one time. The increased rates of suicide pre or post-op and a large amount of gender confusion or whatever you want to call it that resolves itself on its own in early adulthood would seem to indicate that being trans is not something you'd want to encourage in a child - even if it means that some biologically predetermined trans people might have a harder time (if there is such a thing, not saying there isn't just that I don't know). In the same way while there isn't anything morally wrong with being gay you wouldn't want to outright encourage kids to be homosexual for no good reason. If they are meant to be they will be, if not why force it given the life complications it brings relative to heterosexuality.


everyday interactions with regular folks: talking about 1 to 1 interaction with actual humans not involving ideology, politics & one's views on clinical psychology I have no issue calling people whatever they want and I don't care who and how people want to sex each other. If I thought that the person doing it is just seeking attention rather than expressing a genuine need to be recognized as whatever gender then I would probably just not interact with them in the first place - so the problem sorts itself out.

Are you being serious? Because it rather seems like you're looking for exceptions to exceptions and making the assumption that trans people commit suicide as part of our natural state as opposed to being due to having to live being constantly invalidated, misgendered and their basic human rights outright denied; just because some people are afraid they wont be able to talk like they did before.

 

[Coriolis]

Well there are at least 3 levels to this :

societal:
I would think most people would have an issue with being forced by law / private companies that have become public squares (social media) etc. to curtail their language about what is to them (and to a biologist) objective reality.

parental: I think a lot of parents would also take issue with the normalization of that stuff as previous research etc. shows pretty clearly that it's overall better for boys not to be told that they can are a girl because they said they liked dolls that one time. The increased rates of suicide pre or post-op and a large amount of gender confusion or whatever you want to call it that resolves itself on its own in early adulthood would seem to indicate that being trans is not something you'd want to encourage in a child - even if it means that some biologically predetermined trans people might have a harder time (if there is such a thing, not saying there isn't just that I don't know). In the same way while there isn't anything morally wrong with being gay you wouldn't want to outright encourage kids to be homosexual for no good reason. If they are meant to be they will be, if not why force it given the life complications it brings relative to heterosexuality.


everyday interactions with regular folks: talking about 1 to 1 interaction with actual humans not involving ideology, politics & one's views on clinical psychology I have no issue calling people whatever they want and I don't care who and how people want to sex each other. If I thought that the person doing it is just seeking attention rather than expressing a genuine need to be recognized as whatever gender then I would probably just not interact with them in the first place - so the problem sorts itself out.

The highlighted hit the nail on the head. We really shouldn't be in the business of telling people what their own gender identity or sexuality is. There is no good reason to encourage anyone to be anything. What we should do instead is to listen to them when THEY tell US. Listen, hear them out, and respect their wishes. As your first paragraph suggests, it is near impossible to legislate or regulate common courtesy. We can certainly minimize interacting with people who choose not to practice it, though, wherever we fall on the gender and sexuality spectrum.

 

[Totenkindly]

Typically parents are one of the main enforcers of the gender standard, to the degree that we hear about them blowing themselves up with gender reveal parties because everyone is very excited to know "what their child is" and announce it to the world even before birth.

They typically aren't going around telling their sons that they are girls because they played with dolls. Usually what happens is that the dolls are taken away and if the behavior persists, the boy is punished and/or placed in some kind of lockdown until he shows more masculine behavior. No parent wants their kid to be "messed up" or "weird" or have other people consider them bad parents, and considering how crazy the United States about gender issues, this is how it is typically viewed.

The stories told in trans parents groups typically have nothing to do with the scenarios being described here. Usually it's the child who is telling the parents who and what they are, and sometimes the parents are fighting it hard without success until they realize it isn't working and they need a better way to deal with it.... which can include actually trying to listen to their child and understand what is being said. Typical children can identify their gender around age two -- in any case, very young. it is that way for kids who follow a traditional path and thus it should be no surprise when a child with a different self-concept also announces their identity.

Why is everything being blamed on extremist activists, or parents somehow forcing their child to express a non-cis or non-het sense of self? The only difference nowadays is that kids are not being nearly as repressed and forced to never tell anyone, lest they be ostracized and ruin their future in terms of marriage and career. It might seem like there are more gay and trans people nowadays, but guess why that is? (Hint: Consider the iceberg model. What was normally hidden is now more permissible and/or doesn't totally destroy your life.)

 

[yeghor]

If you call someone "she" and they ask you to call them "he" instead, would you consider them a fanatic?

You’ve been railing against this since yesterday. Seems like it’d take far less energy to simply respect an individual’s pronoun preference. The world isn’t forcing you. They’re merely pointing out that it doesn’t cost much— if anything— to be compassionate, even if you can’t relate or understand.

Or god forbid..."Them" I for the life of me cant figure out what the big deal about using someone's chosen pronouns. Refusing to do so doesnt make these folks seem like they have any sort of power over anyone else, just a sad lack of self control and self awareness... -_-

1) That depends. If they look like a she instead of he, I would consider them a lunatic. If they try to force me to do that and call me names when I do not then I would consider them a fanatic.

2) "Railing against" is preferential language misrepresenting debate (see projection). I just made my point then 5 or 6 other users kept offering opinion. I am just defending my personal rights and opinion and maybe others in the thread are railing against me.

It is clear that the moderation in this forum is adopts far left ideologies and has censored ideas and people that do not meet their worldview, misrepresenting them as abusive language. Far left can be as much dictatorial and abusive as far right in my view and I find both worldviews extremist and fanatical (zealous). What is even more dangerous is trying to normalize extremist views.

3) Refusing to do to so indicates I have power over my own decisions (free will), and other people cannot dictate decisions or their preferences on me and play the victim if I do not. That is a fundamental human right. Anyone who cannot see that must be seriously deluded.

TLDR: I do not adhere to your worldview.

 

[Lexicon]

1) That depends. If they look like a she instead of he, I would consider them a lunatic. If they try to force me to do that and call me names when I do not then I would consider them a fanatic.

2) "Railing against" is preferential language misrepresenting debate (see projection). I just made my point then 5 or 6 other users kept offering opinion. I am just defending my personal rights and opinion and maybe others in the thread are railing against me.

It is clear that the moderation in this forum is adopts far left ideologies and has censored ideas and people that do not meet their worldview, misrepresenting them as abusive language. Far left can be as much dictatorial and abusive as far right in my view and I find both worldviews extremist and fanatical (zealous). What is even more dangerous is trying to normalize extremist views.

3) Refusing to do to so indicates I have power over my own decisions (free will), and other people cannot dictate decisions or their preferences on me and play the victim if I do not. That is a fundamental human right. Anyone who cannot see that must be seriously deluded.

TLDR: I do not adhere to your worldview.

Railing against can simply mean you’re basically repeating yourself for literal hours on here today (and more or less telling the first person who replied to you yesterday to “fuck off” also fits the accepted meaning). You want to argue semantics, fine by me, but the result is the same. It’s your time/energy spent.

As for the moderation politics, please refer to the forum rules. Considering you necro’d this thread to continue to air your concerns, it’s obviously something that matters quite a bit to you. It seems like a misunderstanding’s occurred, somewhere. The actual rules of the forum— created by its owner— really take priority over any personal preferences or ideologies the mods may possess. That said, any further discussion of things of that nature (re: your issues w/moderation) are best left to Private Feedback threads and Private Messaging, as per forum rules. If you’re looking for constructive discussion about that, I mean.

 

[Lark]

If you call someone "she" and they ask you to call them "he" instead, would you consider them a fanatic?

Micro things like that, maybe not, although it would depend on how they responded if they did not feel validated. I no people will not see this as I do but I kind of see this the same as if I went around asking people to call me "Sir" or "Master" or "Honoured".

I also think its different to trying really hard to get your own validation trending as a social norm or generalizing from personal experience not shared by a statistical average of the population. Nothing wrong with the intent involved here, although I question all of the chosen means, it wont accomplish what's desired and it will create a lot of misery besides.

That said, vast right wing conspiracy is bigger problem, its doing similar things too.

 

[Lark]

Railing against can simply mean you’re basically repeating yourself for literal hours on here today (and more or less telling the first person who replied to you yesterday to “fuck off” also fits the accepted meaning). You want to argue semantics, fine by me, but the result is the same. It’s your time/energy spent.

As for the moderation politics, please refer to the forum rules. Considering you necro’d this thread to continue to air your concerns, it’s obviously something that matters quite a bit to you. It seems like a misunderstanding’s occurred, somewhere. The actual rules of the forum— created by its owner— really take priority over any personal preferences or ideologies the mods may possess. That said, any further discussion of things of that nature (re: your issues w/moderation) are best left to Private Feedback threads and Private Messaging, as per forum rules. If you’re looking for constructive discussion about that, I mean.

What about that time/energy spent? Also what about that repetition?

I mean where are those things derivative from as they definitely are a pattern for the people who are channelling this stuff lately, for a bit I wondered if this was all a case of ASD meets Internet but I'm not sure if it could possibly be the whole story and then I wondered was it Demographics meets Internet and a maturational thing, someone in their teens or twenties mistaking what is meant by a debate or consistency.

As a phenomenon I think its worth observing also where the f**k is it coming from?

I know none of you are going to agree but I think the alt right and lgbt are cut from the same cloth and its cloth from this loom whatever the hell is determining that.

 

[Coriolis]

Micro things like that, maybe not, although it would depend on how they responded if they did not feel validated. I no people will not see this as I do but I kind of see this the same as if I went around asking people to call me "Sir" or "Master" or "Honoured".

Would you consider it a "micro thing" to be called "she" more often than not? Would that feel invalidating, or just rude, especially if people were insistent about it? Our personal pronouns are on a par with each other, unlike honorific titles. As I mentioned earlier, this is like calling Mark by his stated name, rather than renaming him to Jason because you think that name would be more suitable. The only agenda here is treating other people with courtesy and respect.

What about that time/energy spent? Also what about that repetition?

I mean where are those things derivative from as they definitely are a pattern for the people who are channelling this stuff lately, for a bit I wondered if this was all a case of ASD meets Internet but I'm not sure if it could possibly be the whole story and then I wondered was it Demographics meets Internet and a maturational thing, someone in their teens or twenties mistaking what is meant by a debate or consistency.

I wondered too whether it was a case of genuine ignorance of the lived experience of people who do not neatly fit into the gender binary with the gender assigned at birth; or simple recalcitrance. That is why I remained in the conversation.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

When I’m unsure someone’s gender, I tend to use “they” just to avoid being rude or making them feel shitty.

I know quite a few transgender people, from a cousin in law to casual acquaintances. I’ve never had a problem using preferred pronouns. Not sure why this is hard for some people. It’s not worth obsessing over when we have bigger problems like an insane housing market, rising sea levels and the looming threats of the Russian and Chinese empires to worry about.

True libertarian minded people should respect the personal liberty of others to live as a he, she or whatever other of the numerous labels exist. If you can’t do that, then you’re not doing libertarianism right. You don’t have to like it, you just have to respect it. If you want to talk about the online pc mob, that’s a completely different issue, IMO. The trans people I’ve met IRL aren’t like the idea right wingers have of them based on interactions with Twitter mobs