Video: INFJ Door Slam

[Z Buck McFate]

^^This doesn't necessarily align with my experience but acknowledge there may in fact be a larger range of expression for Js than there is for Ps. Much is made of the NFP demand for authenticity but I see a "hidden" version of this same thing when it comes to the more personal relationship and the NFJ. I mean, the NFJs I've known often appear to become reactive towards modified and/or humoring behaviour in the exact same way NFPs do but perhaps I'm not seeing things clearly in this regard.

Emotionally complex...yes. Need for special handling?...in my world that suggestion would create a bad day but...?

Yes- I wouldn't use the word "gentle", personally, but I can see how others (especially a T) might group it that way. When I first read this post, I think I misunderstood it- it seemed to me like you were simply pointing out that all types have their thing that they're sensitive about immediately 'unpacking', so to speak. It seems like that's what uumlau heard too- except I didn't see it as something to get annoyed by (?), it seemed to me like you were inserting it more as a reminder or point of fact. I mean, it seems like all types have their own type-related triggers, or will dismiss information that isn't presented within certain parameters- which other types violate unawares. (In the past, in this forum, people have hyperfocused on INFJs' parameters as if INFJs were the only ones with those kinds of parameters- seemingly oblivious to how they impose the same thing along another axis. So to me, if that's what you had been pointing out, it wouldn't have seemed like an unreasonable thing to point out.)

Is the point you're trying to make here (taking the 2nd post into account, and just checking to see if I understand) that "being gentle" might be perceived as being somehow, well, patronizing or inauthentic (those aren't quite the right words, but I'm at a loss)? This is not to say that uumlau seemed patronizing or inauthentic, but simply that "being gentle" can come across that way? Not the statement about "being gentle" per se- but you're wondering if something in the "being gentle" approach itself would end up actually creating more friction?

If that's^ what you meant, then I'll try to answer. "Being gentle" can mean far too many things to give a definitive yes or no answer. With Ni, incoming information expands- and (with people-oriented Ni) that information is about body language, possible intentions, etc. But yes- in that information that expands- if there's something about someone else "being gentle" that seems in any way 'off', then it's going to backfire in a colossal way. I don't know quite how to describe that quality though. "Authenticity" comes close, but that's not quite what it is. It's like, the respect behind that 'gentleness' needs to feel authentic? (eta: Or maybe it just needs to match/be compatible with my own threshold? This isn't to say I find other thresholds wrong/bad- because if you want to get phenomenological about it, no one is capable of being 100% authentic- but I do need to distance those that are incompatible, because pain-in-the-ass misunderstandings will otherwise invariably surface. /eta)

I think a further point you're trying to make ("hidden") is that INFJs aren't likely to point it out if they pick up on it (nor possibly ENFJs, who typically want to connect over 'positive' things)- we aren't even likely to focus on it enough to be able to describe it- they'll just make the silent mental note (which, if similar such notes collect, will have a rather big influence) and almost imperceptibly back away or mentally write someone off a little bit. IOW: it might contribute to seeing someone as incompatible, but it wound't normally occur to us to put someone on the spot to point it out. It seems to be a great deal more difficult for us to articulate this stuff, or point it out- but we do use our own sensibilities to assess this stuff and we are very sensitive to it (authentic respect, authentic regard for others, etc).

 

[uumlau]

To top it off, not many INFJs possess the self-awareness that they are asking for something from the other person that involves a level of trust that they seldom offer freely either. They are asking for something they do not provide. They want something they are reticent to give. This is where we wander into Fi space and why these threads get my attention. There's a values-based mismatch surrounding provision and expectation that wobbles and teeters on the brink of hypocrisy.

eta: it's like a poker game where the INFJ wishes to see your cards while keeping their own close to their chest. It gives them advantage, and they want this (perhaps not even consciously), in an effort to protect themselves and stay a step ahead.

Yeah, PB is making some points that I was aware of, but didn't cover as I was addressing the doorslam mechanism.

I would note that where INTJs are unconsciously vulnerable (Fi-Se), INFJs are unconsciously guarded (Ti-Se). They're consciously trying to connect, but underneath the hood, they hold back and want to make sure. So after putting in a lot of conscious effort to be generous and kind and expecting the same from others, there's a part of themselves that is held in reserve that is ready to disconnect in order to protect oneself.

Interestingly, the way to deal with that part of an INFJ is to be less than gentle and call their BS - but you had already be their friend when you do ...

 

[cascadeco]

I understand the emotional need to doorslam and close a door and move on with ones' life, if things have gotten / are incredibly toxic and unbalanced. It seems a fairly obvious psychological coping mechanism / self protection solution. And INFJ's definitely aren't the only ones to do it -- it's just a solution that they may find they need to use more often than other types -- because they get into relationships that necessitate it (from their pov).

The thing is, though, that so much is said about 'accommodating too much', or have been 'accommodating for years', enduring all kinds of pain and suffering, but of course that's ultimately the infj's choice -- to do that accommodating and endure the 'suffering'. So... it's just this weird thing as an outside observer - ie no one asked the infj to accommodate in the first place, it's a choice they made. (and if the relationship is 'doomed' without the excessive accommodation, that's a fact, it's not a great connection or match from the get go)

I don't doubt the unbalance and toxicity of these dynamics by the time a doorslam might occur, let me make that clear. It's just so... needless /unnecessary? I guess it's a blind spot for the infj, instinctually accommodating, maybe not even aware, never asking the questions earlier on 'why am I accommodating / do I need to / if I'm accommodating to this extent why do I even WANT to be in this relationship'. That sort of stuff.....

Maybe in summary I'd say infj's are skilled at making a relationship work for the other person. And that becomes the issue if they never check in from the beginning with whether it's actually great for themselves.

 

[GIjade]

The problem for INFJ is that they need the profound and sudden break once they reach that point. They have already accommodated to such a level that they have given up so much, that they just need to be done.

If they are not done, they will not get out but will accommodate more and they instinctively know it.

All types can doorslam. BPD behavior is very different(having seen to much of that), though is superficially similar. The INFJ is not overreacting to minor issues, blowing up over nothing. Instead, INFJ is finally reacting to a long series of things that violated their boundaries, that they excused. The doorslam is exerting freedom from their own accommodations of the other.

Everything has to go somewhere. When there's no light at the end of the tunnel, you just have to stop walking down that tunnel. I have never doorslammed people, but I think I can understand why there is a need to do so. Doorslamming means you're slamming shut a whole crapload of pain and suffering, and you've been bleeding for so long it can't go on anymore. Sometimes if it's someone you care about, you are cutting off part of yourself as well. Once that door is closed, it can't be touched ever again. You've taken the final step. You've severed a limb. You can't go back. The door has to remain shut forever, because doorslamming hurts. The decision was not arrived at lightly. It has gone through nights and days and weeks, sometimes years of agony churning in your mind. Doorslamming is the ultimate great pain that you're going to suffer one last time before it's all over. There's an absolute finality to it.

Thank you both for so eloquently putting my feelings too, into words.

 

[GIjade]

I see your issue with [MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION]'s post.

ime, INFJs can seem to desire a thing they're not willing to provide. They wish for authenticity but they are not willing to be authentic. And I do not believe this is a case of semantics, of individuals possessing alternative definitions for what authenticity is.

Thing is, many people are going to perceive what an INFJ needs in order to be comfortable, like uumlau, but as soon as an individual accommodates that perception they risk being deemed as inauthentic (as opposed to being interpreted as kind and thoughtful) -- which I agree, can increase the distance as much or more as an INFJ deciding not to interact with you in the first place. INFJs vibe off expectations but when you perceptively try to meet their needs your efforts can be met with rejection and your motives interpreted through a lens of mistrust.

Catch-22. Double-edged sword.

To top it off, not many INFJs possess the self-awareness that they are asking for something from the other person that involves a level of trust that they seldom offer freely either. They are asking for something they do not provide. They want something they are reticent to give. This is where we wander into Fi space and why these threads get my attention. There's a values-based mismatch surrounding provision and expectation that wobbles and teeters on the brink of hypocrisy.

eta: it's like a poker game where the INFJ wishes to see your cards while keeping their own close to their chest. It gives them advantage, and they want this (perhaps not even consciously), in an effort to protect themselves and stay a step ahead.

You're totally wrong. Unless you can give me clear example of the things listed below, taken from your post, my opinion stands:
"They wish for authenticity but they are not willing to be authentic"
"To top it off, not many INFJs possess the self-awareness that they are asking for something from the other person that involves a level of trust that they seldom offer freely either."
"but as soon as an individual accommodates that perception they risk being deemed as inauthentic"

 

[Starry]

I see your issue with [MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION]'s post.

ime, INFJs can seem to desire a thing they're not willing to provide. They wish for authenticity but they are not willing to be authentic. And I do not believe this is a case of semantics, of individuals possessing alternative definitions for what authenticity is.

Thing is, many people are going to perceive what an INFJ needs in order to be comfortable, like uumlau, but as soon as an individual accommodates that perception they risk being deemed as inauthentic (as opposed to being interpreted as kind and thoughtful) -- which I agree, can increase the distance as much or more as an INFJ deciding not to interact with you in the first place. INFJs vibe off expectations but when you perceptively try to meet their needs your efforts can be met with rejection and your motives interpreted through a lens of mistrust.

Catch-22. Double-edged sword.

To top it off, not many INFJs possess the self-awareness that they are asking for something from the other person that involves a level of trust that they seldom offer freely either. They are asking for something they do not provide. They want something they are reticent to give. This is where we wander into Fi space and why these threads get my attention. There's a values-based mismatch surrounding provision and expectation that wobbles and teeters on the brink of hypocrisy.

eta: it's like a poker game where the INFJ wishes to see your cards while keeping their own close to their chest. It gives them advantage, and they want this (perhaps not even consciously), in an effort to protect themselves and stay a step ahead.

I'm running around today and won't be able to address all of what comes up for me when I read this post. But you definitely touch on a "slice" of what I would almost call an entire doorslamming spectrum no matter how embarrassed I feel having put those two words together.

While it is unclear to me how common it is...I know what you describe is real because I have experienced it with certain members of my family... that ironically won't doorslam me no matter how often and purely I pray to the good Lord they would

I also question how useful it is to even discuss doorslamming with INFJs that (ironically again) are willing to talk about it due to the fact their level of awareness almost automatically says to me they are doorslamming in instances most people would doorslam in...or at least that's what it always ends up being ime.

But you are picking up on a part of my untold message. Or perhaps a conclusion I have been preparing to make: Be yourself because you'll either prevent a doorslam or speed up the inevitable. "All's well that ends well."

 

[GIjade]

The thing is, though, that so much is said about 'accommodating too much', or have been 'accommodating for years', enduring all kinds of pain and suffering, but of course that's ultimately the infj's choice -- to do that accommodating and endure the 'suffering'. So... it's just this weird thing as an outside observer - ie no one asked the infj to accommodate in the first place, it's a choice they made. (and if the relationship is 'doomed' without the excessive accommodation, that's a fact, it's not a great connection or match from the get go)

Yeah, the INFJ really wanted to believe in the people they chose to let in. The accommodations they made were for the sake of the relationship. So, yes, it was their choice to make the accommodations because they believed those people were worth it.

I don't doubt the unbalance and toxicity of these dynamics by the time a doorslam might occur, let me make that clear. It's just so... needless /unnecessary? I guess it's a blind spot for the infj, instinctually accommodating, maybe not even aware, never asking the questions earlier on 'why am I accommodating / do I need to / if I'm accommodating to this extent why do I even WANT to be in this relationship'. That sort of stuff.....

Again, the INFJ was accommodating because of the value they placed on the relationship. The INFJ was not unaware of this. And though this is really something that should be addressed in another thread, I will say that this INFJ - me - would never have had any relationships with anyone at all if it weren't for this sort of accommodating/compromising/do stuff with and for your friends because that is what friendship means. In other words, friendship itself is exhausting and taxing merely because of the things you need to do to keep those relationships alive. But that's another thread, and that's just me, perhaps not having anything to do with being an INFJ at all.

Maybe in summary I'd say infj's are skilled at making a relationship work for the other person. And that becomes the issue if they never check in from the beginning with whether it's actually great for themselves.

Yes, we are skilled at it, we love those who we've let in and I personally believe that to make relationships work, people have to compromise sometimes. That's because no two people are exactly alike. But, as far as checking in at the beginning as to whether or not it's great for the INFJ to begin the relationship at all, well, again - and this is just me, because of the taxing nature of friendships, I would probably say in almost every case that the relationship might be worth having to some extent, though only in a few cases would I ever have said it would be great for me.

 

[PeaceBaby]

You're totally wrong. Unless you can give me clear example of the things listed below, taken from your post, my opinion stands:
"They wish for authenticity but they are not willing to be authentic"
"To top it off, not many INFJs possess the self-awareness that they are asking for something from the other person that involves a level of trust that they seldom offer freely either."
"but as soon as an individual accommodates that perception they risk being deemed as inauthentic"

How can I provide examples when you do not know me, the situations I have participated in, or the people I know? I cannot nor will not ascribe to the notion that I must prove my assertions true in this circumstance in order for them to be true. I deem them accurate from my experience and observation. Either you trust my perception or you don't.

Since you patently disagree, you have apparently already made your decision and your choice.

 

[PeaceBaby]

But you are picking up on a part of my untold message. Or perhaps a conclusion I have been preparing to make: Be yourself because you'll either prevent a doorslam or speed up the inevitable. "All's well that ends well."

Yes, that's where I'm at on the whole matter. Why should I care if any particular INFJ deems me worthy to be friends with? Their loss. Ironically, I have been accommodating in the past because I have wanted to foster communications and felt if I kept trying to follow their "rules" it would get better. I've bended more than 10 INFJs put together I think. If bending was the answer? Pretty much done with that game of communication-twister.

 

[Ursa]

The problem for INFJ is that they need the profound and sudden break once they reach that point. They have already accommodated to such a level that they have given up so much, that they just need to be done.

If they are not done, they will not get out but will accommodate more and they instinctively know it.

What I don't understand, then, is why they don't address the problem sooner. I take this to mean that they simply cannot or will not establish healthy boundaries early on, which in turn snowballs into a crisis. It's still immature because a policy to accommodate repeatedly until an event horizon is crossed seems quite unnecessary and silly compared to a policy to discuss interpersonal issues early on so that one person doesn't end up overloaded.

In my personal experience, at least, the INFJ never bothered to talk to me about her concerns and maintained an accommodation routine until she opted to doorslam. The doorslam would not have seemed so sudden, or so unnecessary, or so even trite, had she actually taken the time to talk to me about the problems so we could solve them.

I understand that the doorslam is a reaction to an overload, but it seems like a lame escape route the INFJ has to take because he or she missed/bypassed other avenues on the way there. Idk, it's almost like INFJs expect you to do the impossible and read their minds on what they want/don't want and when that doesn't happen, they doorslam.

 

[GIjade]

What I don't understand, then, is why they don't address the problem sooner. I take this to mean that they simply cannot or will not establish healthy boundaries early on, which in turn snowballs into a crisis. It's still immature because a policy to accommodate repeatedly until an event horizon is crossed seems quite unnecessary and silly compared to a policy to discuss interpersonal issues early on so that one person doesn't end up overloaded.

In my personal experience, at least, the INFJ never bothered to talk to me about her concerns and maintained an accommodation routine until she opted to doorslam. The doorslam would not have seemed so sudden, or so unnecessary, or so even trite, had she actually taken the time to talk to me about the problems so we could solve them.

I understand that the doorslam is a reaction to an overload, but it seems like a lame escape route the INFJ has to take because he or she missed/bypassed other avenues on the way there. Idk, it's almost like INFJs expect you to do the impossible and read their minds on what they want/don't want and when that doesn't happen, they doorslam.

Here are several examples. Mind you, whether you believe it or not, a lot of the people on this forum know each other irl and also know me. Some of them were my friends, so some of them will recognize themselves here in this post. I won't use real names, to protect the guilty.

One of my girlfriends wanted to commit suicide. She told me I couldn't tell anyone that she was feeling that way. Fine. One of my beliefs at the time was when a really good and cherished friend asks you to keep something secret, you do. So, I did. Time went on and I did everything, I mean everything in my power to help hoping she might get better, but there came a point where she actually started planning how to do it. Of course, she told me these things and I then became a nervous wreck. Finally, I made an appointment with the psychiatrist where she was getting therapy (no, she didn't tell her therapist she was feeling this way, only me) and I told the psychiatrist what she was feeling and planning. Then I got out of the relationship. So, I guess I was wrong to try to help her, and according to her in a bitter letter she wrote to me months later, I was also wrong to have broken the bond of friendship that we had. Until her suicidal tendencies started showing up, we were the best of friends, I really loved her. So, you see, I tried to help. But it became too much for to bear. DOOR SLAM.

I had a male friend who was my best friend. We talked everyday on the phone and would also meet once in a while. One day he said he was going to California and I never heard from him again. Later, I found out he was a con-man. I found out that he was an actor and was not only the person I thought he was, but also many other of the friends I had made as well. He used makeup and prosthetics to pretend he was someone else, and let me tell you, when someone is a Holly wood actor, there is no limit to the access they have to makeup and prosthetics they want to either purchase for themselves or borrow for a given role they want to play, irl. IOW, he was at least 3 other people, unrecognizable to me, and so I was telling him about things that he already knew about, since he WAS the person I was telling him about. If you don't think this is possible, think again. DOOR SLAM.

One of my other friends was his twin sister. I didn't know they were even related, until I found out years later. She befriended me and also used the prosthetics and makeup trick. So, I knew her as one person and then again as a few more people, who I though were completely new people in my life, but they weren't. They were, as in her brother's case, not new, but HER altered. Turns out, she had my husband's child (before I met my husband) but it didn't stop there. She had fallen in love with my husband way back when, and continued to stalk him, using disguises, and inevitably, he feel for it. They slept together on several occasions over a span of 40 years, though I didn't know that until recently. DOOR SLAM SHUT!

Now, tell me, if I didn't know what was going on because of the nature of the deception, how was i suppose to "talk to them about my concerns". I had established healthy boundaries early on. I have always had very good boundaries when it comes to the real world. But then, I think the situations I've encountered are not your normal, everyday situations so maybe this has nothing to do with what you're saying.

 

[21%]

I would note that where INTJs are unconsciously vulnerable (Fi-Se), INFJs are unconsciously guarded (Ti-Se). They're consciously trying to connect, but underneath the hood, they hold back and want to make sure. So after putting in a lot of conscious effort to be generous and kind and expecting the same from others, there's a part of themselves that is held in reserve that is ready to disconnect in order to protect oneself.

This is true. There's a safe space at the back of my soul that I can flee into when things get bad. The closer I am to a person the closer they are to that space. I think everyone, regardless of type, has that space, but not everyone places the same amount of value on it.

I understand the emotional need to doorslam and close a door and move on with ones' life, if things have gotten / are incredibly toxic and unbalanced. It seems a fairly obvious psychological coping mechanism / self protection solution. And INFJ's definitely aren't the only ones to do it -- it's just a solution that they may find they need to use more often than other types -- because they get into relationships that necessitate it (from their pov).

The thing is, though, that so much is said about 'accommodating too much', or have been 'accommodating for years', enduring all kinds of pain and suffering, but of course that's ultimately the infj's choice -- to do that accommodating and endure the 'suffering'. So... it's just this weird thing as an outside observer - ie no one asked the infj to accommodate in the first place, it's a choice they made. (and if the relationship is 'doomed' without the excessive accommodation, that's a fact, it's not a great connection or match from the get go)

I don't doubt the unbalance and toxicity of these dynamics by the time a doorslam might occur, let me make that clear. It's just so... needless /unnecessary? I guess it's a blind spot for the infj, instinctually accommodating, maybe not even aware, never asking the questions earlier on 'why am I accommodating / do I need to / if I'm accommodating to this extent why do I even WANT to be in this relationship'. That sort of stuff.....

Maybe in summary I'd say infj's are skilled at making a relationship work for the other person. And that becomes the issue if they never check in from the beginning with whether it's actually great for themselves.

I agree that doorslamming shouldn't be necessary with proper boundaries in the first place, and a lot of NFJs do not know how to set those boundaries. The trap is that Fe takes pride in being kind, and it takes healthy Fe ti realize that being kind at your own expense is not really being kind and allowing someone to take advantage of you is not doing anybody any good.

 

[GIjade]

I agree that doorslamming shouldn't be necessary with proper boundaries in the first place, and a lot of NFJs do not know how to set those boundaries. The trap is that Fe takes pride in being kind, and it takes healthy Fe ti realize that being kind at your own expense is not really being kind and allowing someone to take advantage of you is not doing anybody any good.

Which is why I am no longer kind.

 

[1487610420]

is there an echo in here

or is it these threads that have unison affinity

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

Rational thought out door closed - This works when the iNFJ uses it on a thinking type. It is more calm and reasoned out. Maybe you felt they didn't care about you and you made a lot of effort to talk to them. They feel the relationship is too one sided

The common thread is feeling like the INFJ is putting in all the work and the other person through their behaviors or actions is not perceived as reciprocating. The INFJ just moves on.

Oh God. An online INFJ did this to me recently, and it was extremely vicious.

We had gotten into talking about our lives, and I was in a very bad state at the time. Very bad. And in the middle of a depressive episode.

I made the mistake of telling him all this, and so of course, he started playing councilor. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, except his way of doing so was to try to "improve" my mindset. I dunno if anyone's ever been clinically depressed, but it basically takes over your mind. You canNOT "just think positive", and besides which, I resented him telling me what I "should" do with my life anyway. So like a good ENTP, I argued with him. Not hurtfully. I was just like, "Well, I know a little bit more about my situation than you".

I'd been communicating also with one of his IRL friends, who had PTSD and had some sort of reaction to me when I told her about my life--I mean I was literally telling her about my state of mind, nothing more. And basically she broke down sobbing for two days (apparently) and telling me what a lost soul I was and demanding I change myself and my life. She also started hurling accusations, and honestly I can't even remember about what. It was like, histrionic much? So I just told her I wasn't going to respond to her if she carried on like that, meaning she should stop doing that.

So the INFJ gets the idea that I had "cut" his friend "out of my life". (Odd, considering that she wasn't in my life.) When I reported my version of events to him, he insisted I was being dishonest. Didn't make allowances for the idea that this was actually how I experienced our interactions.

He then tried to insist--get this--that I was a narcissist trying to break up their relationship. I mean, WTF? How can one online stranger attempt to break up two close friends IRL? Needless to say, they shared PMs and the breach of confidence here was...astounding.

THEN he did the doorslam, trying to insist I was this hate-filled monster and fool who wished to remain stuck in my problems and told me he never wanted to hear from me again.

He also did that thing you mention, trying to insist that he was "doing all the work", and the relationship was too one-sided...oblivious to the fact that he was offering advice unsolicited, and the harder he tried to advise, the less likely I was going to be to listen. I kept trying to change the subject, and he told me I never wanted to talk about anything except myself. No, actually, I was telling him I didn't want to change myself, thankyouverymuch. It was like, there was some sort of complex way of reciprocating that was completely unspoken, but that I was expected to live up to anyway.

And the whole thing, to me, was complete WTFkery. I felt that he--and his friend--had both been far more irrational, overbearing, intolerant, and hurtful than I could hold a candle to. Needless to say paranoid--imagining all sorts of sinister motivations where they don't exist, and being so cocksure as to state them as truths. I felt completely tarnished by our interactions. And that's my gossip for this year.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

The thing is, though, that so much is said about 'accommodating too much', or have been 'accommodating for years', enduring all kinds of pain and suffering, but of course that's ultimately the infj's choice -- to do that accommodating and endure the 'suffering'. So... it's just this weird thing as an outside observer - ie no one asked the infj to accommodate in the first place, it's a choice they made. (and if the relationship is 'doomed' without the excessive accommodation, that's a fact, it's not a great connection or match from the get go)

I don't doubt the unbalance and toxicity of these dynamics by the time a doorslam might occur, let me make that clear. It's just so... needless /unnecessary? I guess it's a blind spot for the infj, instinctually accommodating, maybe not even aware, never asking the questions earlier on 'why am I accommodating / do I need to / if I'm accommodating to this extent why do I even WANT to be in this relationship'. That sort of stuff.....

Yeah, it's probably the e5 in me speaking here, but when someone complains about incessant accommodating without return- it's hard for me to keep empathizing.

Because here's the thing. It's one thing to speak of it in past tense- and I have had this experience- to have realized that the reason I couldn't handle interacting with someone anymore is because I felt like I was doing all the work. But the whole reason I had to cut interaction off is because I didn't realize that's why it felt so bad to interact- I only knew *something* was off, something felt really bad. It stems from a negative sense of entitlement, and a strong fear of being the one who takes more than they give- so they err in the direction of giving. When someone actually does this to the point where it's draining them, and it feels really bad- it's actually more confusing than not, and they certainly don't realize it enough to whine about how much they 'give and give'. It actually takes years of baby steps of asserting oneself- checking in with others to make sure the sense of entitlement still hasn't gone over to the inflated side for every tiny possible encroachment on their boundaries, to make sure they're still not the person who is expecting 'too much'- in order to feebly defend their boundaries. To this day, I would feel incredibly uncomfortable with actually saying I can't handle interacting with someone because I feel like I'm doing all the work- it's only after bouncing reality off of several people (whose judgement I trust) who tell me it's not an unreasonable perception that I might be able to feel relatively confident this is a reason for a problem I'm having with someone. And even then, I feel reticent to say this to the person directly.

But it's another thing if someone goes on and on about it almost immediately. People who are genuinely caught in the trap of being too accommodating don't realize they're doing it- and they certainly wouldn't assert it by immediately going on and on about how they give and give and give. That is actually a pompous claim, and people with a negative sense of entitlement don't make it. IME, it's usually the people who are actually consistently on the 'taking' end of imbalance who openly claim to be too accommodating. They're likely not being intentionally dishonest- it's very likely they believe they're simply pointing out the truth, and it's likely they completely believe they are being too accommodating. The human mind has a funny way of spinning truth around to protect the ego, and- unfortunately- the "too accommodating" narrative is one of the soul-sucking, parasitic archetypes the human mind comes up with to protect itself. And a relatively common one, at that.

So, anytime someone goes on and on about how giving they are or how much accommodating they do for others- I really can't help suspect they are actually probably blind to how much they actually take from others and blind to how much they expect in exchange for this "giving" they do.

It's just human frailty, and therefore worthy of compassion. The whole reason they're disguising how much they take (disguising it to themselves) is because they can't handle seeing it. But I personally can only have compassion for it from a distance. It rubs against my own issues in a bad, bad way (again, e5 here).

tl;dr: I can see how being too accommodating actually can lead up to a "doorslam"- but I'm incredibly wary of people directly asserting they're "too accommodating." Because people who are too accommodating rarely actually make that claim.

Oh God. An online INFJ did this to me recently, and it was extremely vicious.

We had gotten into talking about our lives, and I was in a very bad state at the time. Very bad. And in the middle of a depressive episode.

I made the mistake of telling him all this, and so of course, he started playing councilor. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, except his way of doing so was to try to "improve" my mindset. I dunno if anyone's ever been clinically depressed, but it basically takes over your mind. You canNOT "just think positive", and besides which, I resented him telling me what I "should" do with my life anyway. So like a good ENTP, I argued with him. Not hurtfully. I was just like, "Well, I know a little bit more about my situation than you".

I'd been communicating also with one of his IRL friends, who had PTSD and had some sort of reaction to me when I told her about my life--I mean I was literally telling her about my state of mind, nothing more. And basically she broke down sobbing for two days (apparently) and telling me what a lost soul I was and demanding I change myself and my life. She also started hurling accusations, and honestly I can't even remember about what. It was like, histrionic much? So I just told her I wasn't going to respond to her if she carried on like that, meaning she should stop doing that.

So the INFJ gets the idea that I had "cut" his friend "out of my life". (Odd, considering that she wasn't in my life.) When I reported my version of events to him, he insisted I was being dishonest. Didn't make allowances for the idea that this was actually how I experienced our interactions.

He then tried to insist--get this--that I was a narcissist trying to break up their relationship. I mean, WTF? How can one online stranger attempt to break up two close friends IRL? Needless to say, they shared PMs and the breach of confidence here was...astounding.

THEN he did the doorslam, trying to insist I was this hate-filled monster and fool who wished to remain stuck in my problems and told me he never wanted to hear from me again.

He also did that thing you mention, trying to insist that he was "doing all the work", and the relationship was too one-sided...oblivious to the fact that he was offering advice unsolicited, and the harder he tried to advise, the less likely I was going to be to listen.

I kept trying to change the subject, and he told me I never wanted to talk about anything except myself. No, actually, I was telling him I didn't want to change myself, thankyouverymuch. It was like, there was some sort of complex way of reciprocating that was completely unspoken, but that I was expected to live up to anyway.

And the whole thing, to me, was complete WTFkery. I felt that he--and his friend--had both been far more irrational, overbearing, intolerant, and hurtful than I could hold a candle to. Needless to say paranoid--imagining all sorts of sinister motivations where they don't exist, and being so cocksure as to state them as truths. I felt completely tarnished by our interactions. And that's my gossip for this year.

I kind of want to say "case in point". While it's probably not possible to say definitively based on a short description, this does sound like what I'm talking about.

 

[uumlau]

Oh God. An online INFJ did this to me recently, and it was extremely vicious.

Yes, I've seen that kind of behavior from some INFJs, especially those who are kind of paranoid. (Ni doms are NEVER paranoid! )

I'd like, however, to offer up a positive example of an INFJ, and how they handle these very same instincts in a productive and positive manner.

It's kind of biased, as the positive example is my Mom.

For context, my Mom died back in December 2000. It was a very severe emotional blow in my life. I still miss her. AND that all makes it kind of difficult to type this out without waterworks starting ... You should appreciate her, too: if there is any advice you have ever received from me that really helped you, a lot of those insights came from my Mom.

*sigh*

Anyway, my Mom was always the "cool Mom". That's what my friends who came over always said. She'd treat everyone with respect, and they could tell. They were just kids - I'm thinking of age ranges from 8 through 14 or so. They knew that she would pay attention to each and every one of them.

The other side of the coin, though, was that she could tell which of my (or my brother's) friends weren't really very good friends. Not by any sort of obvious evidence, but by reading them as individuals. She was right every time.

Perhaps the best example of this was when my Dad started a partnership with this one guy. My Mom immediately "had a bad feeling about this". A couple years later, that partner was having financial difficulties, and sued my Dad because he could (settling is always cheaper than paying lawyers) and that cost our family a lot of money in those times. My Mom was totally right about this guy, even though she didn't know him that well.

Why? Because she had learned how to read people. She knew how to read intentions and motivations. She knew - from experience, mind you, not mystical Ni insight - what kinds of things were typical of untrustworthy people. She had a very honed skepticism about people.

She didn't have to doorslam people because she could spot such people long before they could betray her.

And if she didn't spot that untrustworthiness in you, she could be as kind as she wanted to be to you, because she knew that you were a good person.

This is a pattern I've seen in a lot of INFJs, but mostly older ones. You give them a chance to read you, as a human being, and if you pass muster, they'll let you in. This pattern works best for INFJs met in real life. They have to see ALL the clues (visual, audio, facial expressions, tone of voice). On the internet, they come across (to me) as a bit more confused (as a group) because they've been denied their usual means of figuring out whether you're an OK person. They seem to be aware, online, that it's a bit easier to pull the wool over their eyes.

And yes, finally, there is the case of very bitter INFJs, whose experiences are such that they have learned the hard way to not trust anyone at all. Instead of having a honed instinct about whom to trust, they reject the notion of trusting people from the get go, and they are thus very difficult to get to know. These INFJs never "doorslam" any more, because they've essentially already doorslammed all of humanity as being unworthy, except (maybe!) for a few very close friends.

 

[GIjade]

And yes, finally, there is the case of very bitter INFJs, whose experiences are such that they have learned the hard way to not trust anyone at all. Instead of having a honed instinct about whom to trust, they reject the notion of trusting people from the get go, and they are thus very difficult to get to know. These INFJs never "doorslam" any more, because they've essentially already doorslammed all of humanity as being unworthy, except (maybe!) for a few very close friends.

Of course, I'm almost sure that you wrote this just for me.:hi: Yeah, I'm pretty bitter about finding out that I was lied to my entire life and befriended by con artists. I already wrote in one post that I don't have what some would call intuition or as you say, "a honed instinct" about whom to trust. I wasn't born with that quality. I trusted people because I felt good around them, I felt that we had things in common and that we were "kindred spirits." But that, apparently, isn't intuition. Therefore, the reason I have difficulty trusting anyone at all is because of that and also because I know that the people I loved, I shouldn't have loved. There are some people in the world who can't discern between, I don't know, certain things like that. I'm one of them. So, maybe it has nothing to do with being an INFJ and more to do with being slightly autistic or something along those lines, I don't know. What I do know is that those people whom I loved took advantage of my, shall we say, naivety, and used me in all sorts of ways to get a good laugh, to make money by betting on some of the things I did, and just to see how far they could take their little games. How am I suppose to trust anyone in the word anymore when the people I loved and trusted most did that to me.

 

[uumlau]

Of course, I'm almost sure that you wrote this just for me.:hi: Yeah, I'm pretty bitter about finding out that I was lied to my entire life and befriended by con artists. I already wrote in one post that I don't have what some would call intuition or as you say, "a honed instinct" about whom to trust. I wasn't born with that quality. I trusted people because I felt good around them, I felt that we had things in common and that we were "kindred spirits." But that, apparently, isn't intuition. Therefore, the reason I have difficulty trusting anyone at all is because of that and also because I know that the people I loved, I shouldn't have loved. There are some people in the world who can't discern between, I don't know, certain things like that. I'm one of them. So, maybe it has nothing to do with being an INFJ and more to do with being slightly autistic or something along those lines, I don't know. What I do know is that those people whom I loved took advantage of my, shall we say, naivety, and used me in all sorts of ways to get a good laugh, to make money by betting on some of the things I did, and just to see how far they could take their little games. How am I suppose to trust anyone in the word anymore when the people I loved and trusted most did that to me.

Just FYI, it wasn't for you. I don't know you well enough to even determine if you're INFJ (in my terms). I was thinking of an average-to-low Enneagram 6 INFJ friend of mine who has a difficult time not sounding like Marvin the Paranoid Android from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_(character)

 

[GIjade]

Just FYI, it wasn't for you. I don't know you well enough to even determine if you're INFJ (in my terms). I was thinking of an average-to-low Enneagram 6 INFJ friend of mine who has a difficult time not sounding like Marvin the Paranoid Android from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_(character)

Sorry, I should have used a "sarcastic" emoticon for that. I was kidding.