First: Please use the "quote" function on the Quick Reply editing panel. It's the dialogue ballon right beside the film strip. Your posts are really confusing to read without it, I don't know what is old or new text, and as I said before, it takes time to edit everything you write before I can reply.
Yes, you did post the same thing twice and I thought it were two different ones, again because of the lack of quote code.
I know it happened to me too, but you'll notice I deleted the text and indicated it was a double post. It makes reading in the forum easier.
No, I'm not wrong. I
NEVER said Fe doesn't care about accuracy, I only explained to you why your friend gets mad when you don't called things by their real known name.
As you said, Fe has a different idea of what accuracy is than Te. You didn't get your friend's reason for having a problem with the way you talk and I explained that to you.
I merely said Fi has nothing to do with it, which it hasn't. It's not about feelings.
Ok, I get you.
And who are you to say they value the wrong things? God? That’s the most arrogant thing someone can do: thinking they know what’s best for others. You don’t even know what’s best for yourself.
That’s your opinion, not a fact.
Believing in astrology =/= succumbing to depression.
You said before some people thought everybody was emotionally weak remember? Well you’re doing the same thing here.
Are you a psychiatrist? I think not. How do you know that's their problem and not something else? Even if you were able to read minds, you would never know everything that a person has on their inside and how that relates to one another.
I came to the world to live my own life. In this life I meet people and like to help them whenever I can. But religion/beliefs are something I would never meddle with. It's a deeply personal and delicate issue.
There's a line between us and other people, no matter how close we are to them. I don't admit people telling me to stop believing in whatever I want to, so I don.'t the same.
And I'm also not responsible for anyone's mental/emotional health but my own.
The sky is blue, the grass is green, ice is cold...
YOU ANSWERED MY QUESTION: people think differently, so if you can interpret what you feel and
sense and colors, then others can interpret things using
astrological signs and constellations.
Different systems, same thing. Neither of you is wrong.
I finally got it: it takes at least two posts for me to understand most of what you say because the first time you write, you're in such a rush. When you take your time to explain you make sense and sounds much better. I totally get your point
now .
It's a NF thing, actually. We all have this ability to make sense of things and explain them in a way no one else has before.
Yes, it's a shame Fe users care so much about what others think
. I usually like them very much but this necessity of fitting in and being accepted gets on my nerves so I keep my distance. If I don't, I'll try and make them see reason and be themselves and that leads into either fights or tears
.
I see. Well the link I talked to is about "Ennegram's Myths vs Truth". It tries to dispel some stereotypes and offer a broader view. I actually thanked the person who wrote it because it helped me understand you better
. Here it is:
http://personalitycafe.com/articles/106016-enneagram-myths-vs-facts.html
Definitely a Ni vs Ne thing
.
I sometimes drive people crazy because I change my mind without telling them
why and they end up thinking it was for no reason. In reality I have a reason why I changed it, but I really hate explaining myself to others, so I let them think whatever they want. As you know, we Fi users just don't care
.
I drop projects all the time, as well as relationships when I realize they won't work. I don't have the energy or perhaps motivation to keep insisting in things that I see as fruitless.
I do my friend, I do
. Freedom is the single most valuable thing in the world to me. To live freely is #1, then comes other kinds of power to me.
I disagree.
Freeing our minds is the highest purpose of terrestrial human experience to me, but since you seem to detest metaphysical territories, I'll keep my views to myself
.
Just keep this in mind: maybe people aren't reacting bad to
what you feel, but
how you express those feelings.
I don't know your life except for the things you've told me so far, so I don't wanna judge what I don't know. But it's definitely a possibility in some cases.
See ya
"Maybe astrology is bad for you and can trigger depression, but not for all people. I happen to believe in numerology, tarot and astrology (to a much lesser extent) and I’m perfectly happy and healthy."
i dont claim that you couldnt find answers with that method. i just think, that there are more efficient methods to do the same thing. i used to be into it too, i also used to believe im a wizard and i.. can do spells. =]
well i still believe in all the same stuf, but i just think my current explanations are much better, less misleading, thus allowing me to be more efficient, which means im even better at it now.
whats your own analysis of me?
also one 5 thing: people have told me many times that i think alot, that im ingenious, nuclear phycisist and so on. i always dismissed these, because everyone thinks. it didnt make much sense at all why people would compliment me like that, considering its an univeral trait that everyone posesses. but i guess as it does seem like it, that im a 5w4, that my thoughts just come across as extra analytical in comparison to other peoples thoughts. i wasnt able to make any sense of those compliments, until now, once again someone omplimented me for my thinking, so i started to connect the dots to see why they do compliment me like that.
do you think their compliments might have basis in reality? meaning, could you see others complimenting me like that?
on the quote thing: i tried it once, but i couldnt make it work, so it frustrated me and i developed m own technique, by using quote symbols '"' to mark the other peoples text.
"I don't think you understand what I said.
Specific: I like blue
vs General: I like cold colors.
You don't give me details sometimes and only talk in generals, that's why we have so many misunderstandings. Get it?
Your answer was totally unrelated, but illustrative. A trait like this can help indicate type
"
complexity. i can enjoy pleasurous feelings others have, all kinds of them, but if its too static, doesnt change form, i get very quickly bored.
i sometimes even enjoy other peoples craziness. like there was this istj at a mental hosp who had an immense feeling of emptiness. first i found it kind of scary to be lost in such emptiness, but after a while in there, i started to enjoy it. it was like an illusion, and i would let the illusion go any way it wanted to, just observing it. (by doing this, i actually fix other peoples emotional problems. usually their crazy feelings annoy the hell out of me first, but if i invest energy and effort to get through the initial annoying state of the craziness, then it transforms into something beautiful.)
"Yes, Jung really was something else
But people only speculate on his type, he died before the MBTI system was created. All I know it's he was type AWESOME."
same could be said about any type who reaches their full potential. like einstein.
"I think I have a good idea of what types you might be now, but first I'd like you to read a couple things and then give me your opinion on it. I'll post the links later, but only if you don't write another essay in answer to this, or I'll never get to it
"
oki! YEEAAAHH... sorry about that xD..
"I'm sorry to hear it
. But I find tears to be a sign we're alive and that we can feel, you know? At least you're not repressing your feelings anymore.
I hope you find may reasons to smile, though
"
yeah, other than FAKING it. ive got enough of faking happy. ive always had to feign that im ok, because no one wants to see the real me.
"
That's totally a T thing. For real, no Feeler would ever think that.
We are what we feel.
I honestly don't think you're a feeler.
You're actually quite rational despite what you come across like at first. As I said your problem is you want it all
now. But deep inside, you need to make sense. Am I right? "
i think its msot likely Ti vs Fi difference. intro functions = personal, extro function impersonal.
and if im a five, then five is a: an ego ennea, and b: thinking ennea. which means: your _ego_ comes from your thoughts, no matter the type. and ego, my dear, equates to self image. such as nines define thesmelves by their physical actvities, fours define themselve by how they feel of themselves, and fives by their way of thinking.
its just like we spoke earlier: Fe adapts other peoples values. how many Fe's have you met who _havent_ compromised themselves to fit in?
like in past, when i noticed my thinking had gotten worse, it totally destroyed my self esteem, and i made a theory that alcohol had permanently damaged me. so i lost any bit of confidence i had in my intellect, and got into a mania. sounds like a 5 thing, doesnt it? i started to overcompensate this feeling of being inherently flawed by focusing on my 4w3, to build myself an amazing identity that i could be proud of.
"Again, a T trait. You're such a thinker! Why do you think you're an F, just because you have a lot of ups and downs?
Thinkers have feelings too, they aren't robots or machines, and they're also sensitive.
Being "nutty" as you described yourself before, doesn't indicate F on its own.
You're either a Thinker or a Feeler who's been acting as your shadow type for a long time.
You really have a problem with anything you see as superstition, no?
"
wrong explanations mess my head up. an example: i used to believe im a wizard. that i could affect other peoples emotions however much i wish.
so i ended up doing it to others even when i was away from them. it seemed to cost more mana, and was harder without seeing them.
reason: because im not a wizard. i was simply, afecting their emotions through the connection i share with them, and i could only do it to the extense that the other people connected with me.
ok, so youve came to the conclusion that im a ti - fe, and an ni - se. a thinker. which mean an stp. istp's lead such emotionally dull lives i could never fathom myself having. and estp's talk about.. weather. like seriously? =| (sure i can analyze them how different weathers affect my moods, but thats kind of pointless.)
id have real hard time seeing myself as a sensor. considering, i saw them as dumb long before i got into these theories. i also saw intitors dumb too. =| (or the only intuitor i knew as a child, an intj.)
and it makes me really bad to think of myself as a sensor. ive always seen myself above everyone else.
and then another N trait: i could never accept myself having casual mating. i dont want std's, and not connecting to the other deeply makes it just pointless waste of time even if there werent std's. for me, romance is all about the connection. being touched is also extra. (but then, doesnt everyone except isfp's like that? =| ) isfp's are too privy and hate the Fe'ish emotion stuff. an isfp cat i had, always hates it that i shower her with too much attention. she only likes the attnetion, if shes in a mood to have it, and even then shes _completely_ disconnected from me, like disregarding me as if i was just something to use whenever she pleases. -.-
ive actually always hated pointless small talk. but now that im becoming more emotionally open, it.. actually makes me very good, even thought my "small talk" is always more like me intellectually analyzing something seemingly trivial, but i actually learn things, indirectly, by doing so. like if people ask how ive been doing, i think, in my head (why the fk would i care to talk about that? whats the point?) but i realize now what the point is: the point of such trivial questions is to keep your mind sharp, so you actually know what happens inside your head, instead of forgetting everything instantly.. xD
about those shadow types.. please, do tell me more.
honestly speaking, it makes me feel bad when i label myself as a type. i desperately want to have one, but all the negative traits i associate with each type bugs me. i guess, the prevalence of instincts and ennea makes it still very different to each person, aaand not to mention, personal progress.
i couldnt find the part of my post where i was talking about sexuality: ill add to it: the intense connection things applies probably on all sx doms..
on the shadow types: to what extense can it affect the person? my extremes are like this: openly empathetic, radiates any feelings i feel, (only good things, considering i wouldnt be in that state if they werent..) and even if the feeling is pain, it still feels good, and it makes me ashamed of how posessive my feelings kind of are, that when in that state and people leave my company, it makes me kind of sad, but i dont want to guilt trip anyone. so i also feel shame when i feel that way, cause i dont have the right to be posessive. i also dont take my feelings seriously in that state, so im actually just observing them in fascination, not being so ashamed of what i feel, that id hide it. then the other extreme is: emotionally dead. faking feelings with melodrama if in one on one situation. to the point kind of thinking, that i only leave my computer to do tasks such as shopping, and im so focused in doing them that i wont even notice there are other people at the shop too. if i discuss with people in this state, its very emotionless and centered around thoughts which wont really connect with reality that much at all. but im so absorbed in them that i actually believe in them. im also very arrogatn and believe im either the most intelligent person(when operating by which i suspect to be e5) or the most beautiful person (when operating on my 4w3, most likely secondary ennea.)
also, i dont analyze others at all when im in this bad state. im just totally disconnected from others.
my emotions mostly indicate how certain i am in my ability to judge what is the objectively best way to feel about something. and my certainty in my thinking. if i think im right, ill radiate a clear confidence. which is visible to others in many ways.
i also dont think an intuitor could ever hurt me in any way. i have an uncanny ability to solve any emotional problem, if i _care_ to, which, i rarely do.
all the types i find most threatening to my self are S doms. except isfj, i havent noticed any dangerous behaviour from them yet, but then.. ive only seen one isfj in my entire life. -.- or two, but i didnt get to analyze this other isfj much at all, only to determine her type.
but me, an estp? i guess i could make sense of that.. but then........... ive been able to make sense of every other type i thought i was. -.-
this is lame.. =D
its kind of true, or really true.. i dont believe anything until ive experienced it myself.
and ive recognized, unhealthy entp's try to justify their emotional problems with external explanations, using Te, such as theories about how something in their brain has gone wrong, while in reality, they just have emotional problems.. lols. i guess it could be similar to how i correlated my dropped thinking capacity with the use of alcohol and thus became absolutist and lost any hopes of ever being intelligent again. when the truth was, that its because i stopped talking with people through microphones, that caused me to stop developing and maintaining my vocabulary and intellect, which i incorrectly correlated to alcohol. dont know, perhaps it migthve had somehting to do with it too?
there was once this istp 5w4, he seemed very intelligent and like that. but when i went talking all abstract philosophy with him, he replied "im a simple person."
which is kind of lame, since istp IS the simpliest type, as is esfj equally much.. but still, a simple person with ennea 5w4? 5w4 is like the opposite of simplicity.
uhh, i dont know. i actually in my past noted something about estp's world view being very similar to mine, i wrote it down so i could think on it later when i felt like it.
ive also noted estp's to do a lot of typism. ive been infricted several times in another forum and banned once for it. *whistles* =o..
uh, id love to think more on this, but right now i feel like theres too many things to think, and thus im nearing my suspected disintegration point of e7, which makes sense a lot since getting my thoughts scattered is exactly what wrecks me up, and it said to be a 5 thing.
lols, could you imagine a 5w4 sx so estp? thats like the opposite of estp stereotype. no wonder i never considered that type.
agh, i love it when i have million thoughts, but i also hate it, because then i get nothing out of it...............
i really dont know what to do in moments like this. id like to follow them all. one strategy is to write down the most relevant ones of them down, and ponder it later, unless it becomes irrelevant by new discoveries ive made.
"Think of us both: a few posts ago it seemed impossible to understand each other without loosing our tempers, now we're having a pleasant conversation
!
I need some time to read your last two posts again and then come back, but I have an important question: did you read on Socionics during your studies? Do you identify more with those description or less?"
well, it takes some time to figure out how to go right at each type dynamic..
i did read socionics too. i find it so easy to identify with any of them, because somehow, im able to justify just about any theory. which is why i should first figure things myself, then correlate it to theory. not the other way.
yep, c ya!