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Submitted for your consideration...

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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Look on the bright side. Probably next to no fossil fuels were expended for home heating in Chicago that day.


Ok, but that isn't how the game works. Since plenty of fossil energy was spent on traffic, various machines, computers etc. What means that disruption will only grow. Especially since Summers are becoming major consumers of energy when it comes to cooling of living and working spaces. Not to mention much more wild fire seasons that evidently aren't making things better for anyone. What is carbon that no one is even counting when the math is done,


The key to solving the problem is accepting the fact that with current trends things aren't going to be ok (not even remotely ok). It takes plenty of guts to even accept that but at the end of the day there are no meaningful alternatives.
 
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Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
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Thunderstorm tonight. Well, at least we got a lot of charismatic people in there, thank God.
 
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The Cat

Just a Magic Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads.
Staff member
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23,739
Your wish has been granted...
Have fun...​
 

The Cat

Just a Magic Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads.
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How many centrists does it take to make the first female president a republican?
Stay tuned to find out.
 

The Cat

Just a Magic Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads.
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You are here to think.
If you can think.
Learn.
If you can learn.
 

The Cat

Just a Magic Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads.
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I'll bet this is how Jor-el felt on Krypton.​
 

SensEye

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Messages
516
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Ok, but that isn't how the game works. Since plenty of fossil energy was spent on traffic, various machines, computers etc. What means that disruption will only grow. Especially since Summers are becoming major consumers of energy when it comes to cooling of living and working spaces. Not to mention much more wild fire seasons that evidently aren't making things better for anyone. What is carbon that no one is even counting when the math is done,
I realize. I was being facetious.

I'm a bit surly as a noticed my latest heating bill (I have natural gas furnace). I am charged $0.102 per cubic meter for the gas itself and $0.124 per cubic meter for Federal Carbon Charge. So that's a tax rate of about 120%.

I find it ironic that by trying not to freeze to death I have to pay a penalty for "heating up the planet".

I agree though, nothing useful is being done on the carbon front. Until a useful plan is globally accepted, I will complain about being taxed for no benefit other than to score political points with naive voters. Virtue signaling does not float my boat on just about any issue. Pragmatic solutions or bust.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,867
I realize. I was being facetious.

I'm a bit surly as a noticed my latest heating bill (I have natural gas furnace). I am charged $0.102 per cubic meter for the gas itself and $0.124 per cubic meter for Federal Carbon Charge. So that's a tax rate of about 120%.

I find it ironic that by trying not to freeze to death I have to pay a penalty for "heating up the planet".

I agree though, nothing useful is being done on the carbon front. Until a useful plan is globally accepted, I will complain about being taxed for no benefit other than to score political points with naive voters. Virtue signaling does not float my boat on just about any issue. Pragmatic solutions or bust.


Yes, this is basically wrong approach. Climate change is problem in the domain of engineering and chemistry, therefore solving it through taxes is probably a miss at the end of the day. What is because you just piss off people with these kinds of measures and once people are pissed the odds are they wouldn't play along. What basically turns climate change in unsolvable problem. Even if people play along solving this will be the greatest challenge in history (literally). While if people don't play along you are evidently fighting for the lost cause.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
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I realize. I was being facetious.

I'm a bit surly as a noticed my latest heating bill (I have natural gas furnace). I am charged $0.102 per cubic meter for the gas itself and $0.124 per cubic meter for Federal Carbon Charge. So that's a tax rate of about 120%.

I find it ironic that by trying not to freeze to death I have to pay a penalty for "heating up the planet".

I agree though, nothing useful is being done on the carbon front. Until a useful plan is globally accepted, I will complain about being taxed for no benefit other than to score political points with naive voters. Virtue signaling does not float my boat on just about any issue. Pragmatic solutions or bust.

I was reminded a little of a guy on this forum I used to frequent. He made two points that live on in my memory. He thought it was hypocritical to be an environmentalist and live in NYC. He also said it was too dangerous to think about the environment, because that's when terrorists would attack, when you were worrying about the environment. He also thought Bill O'Reilly was a genius.

This was 20 years ago.

I'm not saying that's you. It doesn't seem like you're a denier. But, the familiarity of it does rile me up, and calls to mind certain things.

I'm angry that nobody has taken this issue seriously. We've known about it for a long time. I suspect many people like to pretend it doesn't exist because it's too upsetting. It is common for people to get angry at those who remind them of unpleasent facts. Such people never have any logic or facts they can provide to disprove the first set of facts; they're just extremely bothered by them. We will be damned because nobody wants anyone harshing their buzz, which is unbelivable but also funny in a darkly comic way. Toxic positivity is way more toxic than anyone thought, who knew?
 

SensEye

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I'm angry that nobody has taken this issue seriously. We've known about it for a long time. I suspect many people like to pretend it doesn't exist because it's too upsetting.
I agree with most of your post. I single out this quote because I perceive an even more nefarious process. People don't necessarily pretend it (global warming) doesn't exist, but people like to pretend things that don't solve the problem, do in fact, solve the problem. So people think that re-usable shopping bags and LED light bulbs are the answer, while they hop into their 2 ton F250's or Escalades to drive to and from the grocery store and feel that's just fine. Not to mention their 3000 square foot houses and all that jazz. Don't even get me started on carbon offset schemes celebrities like to talk about while they go on about how enlightened and concerned about the planet they are despite flying all over the place in their private jets.

How are all these massive forest fires working out for the those tree planting carbon offset do gooders? Most of those trees would have been planted anyways by the by. Did they pay again after all their saplings went up in smoke? Of course not. But hey, their conscious is assauged so no more thought needs to be put into it.

This is the kind of thing that gets me worked up. If you say something is a priority to you, act like it. Don't consume at vastly higher levels than me and tell me I'm the one who doesn't get it.
 

The Cat

Just a Magic Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads.
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I remember where it all began. Out here in no man's land.​
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
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Messages
19,867
I agree with most of your post. I single out this quote because I perceive an even more nefarious process. People don't necessarily pretend it (global warming) doesn't exist, but people like to pretend things that don't solve the problem, do in fact, solve the problem. So people think that re-usable shopping bags and LED light bulbs are the answer, while they hop into their 2 ton F250's or Escalades to drive to and from the grocery store and feel that's just fine. Not to mention their 3000 square foot houses and all that jazz. Don't even get me started on carbon offset schemes celebrities like to talk about while they go on about how enlightened and concerned about the planet they are despite flying all over the place in their private jets.

How are all these massive forest fires working out for the those tree planting carbon offset do gooders? Most of those trees would have been planted anyways by the by. Did they pay again after all their saplings went up in smoke? Of course not. But hey, their conscious is assauged so no more thought needs to be put into it.

This is the kind of thing that gets me worked up. If you say something is a priority to you, act like it. Don't consume at vastly higher levels than me and tell me I'm the one who doesn't get it.



Since we have went down this road I will add a few very inconvenient truths to this. In other words all you have said is still heavy sugarcoating of the topic. The truth is that in the so called Global South we have about 100 dictators and autocrats that basically don't give a shit about this topic. Especially since whole social structures that they have build are dependent on cheap dirty energy (or selling that energy to everyone else). What is the actual elephant in the room and pretty much no one wants to open this box, since in that case scope of the problem goes completely through the roof and into the clouds.


Yes, climate change is one very serious and dangerous problem. However when you sum all of our efforts to tackle the problem our result still looks like this.





In other words this is because we are ignoring the elephant in the room, which is the industrialization of the global south. Which as a process started somewhere in the 1970s and that can be seen on the graph Thus the whole media hysteria over the topic is basically pointless since not only that in the end nothing is being achieved but in the big picture things are getting exponentially worse. What is because those little tweaks in the first world evidently can't compensate what is going on in the developing world. What is the trend that can't really be reversed because global south has way too weak democracy and institutions to be able to make change in how things are being handled. In a sense this is exactly why all global conversations and deals on the topic in the end don't have solid conclusion and it all ends with "we will do what we can".


Europe tried really hard to set the example that others should follow but in the end all that it got is moving of industry into less developed countries. While at the same time being seen as so weak that "someone" even decided to start a major war on it's borders. What basically means that you can't solve climate change without overthrowing quite a number of dictators. Since that is basically the only way that you can make sure that green new deal exists everywhere on reasonable scale. However since typical environmentalists go crazy even at the mention of Iraq there is little that can be done in this area. Since in order to make sure green new deal exist everywhere you basically need to repeat Iraq a few dozen times all across the world and hope that there are no mushroom clouds as a result.


So long story short: This is exactly why I said to the people here that they should start preparing their own life for major climate mess. Since it is becoming completely evident that the problem wouldn't get fixed in time. As a matter of fact the odds are that we are already in the scenario of run away green house effect where even with 0 emissions the feedbacks continue to fuel climate change as it runs out of control. What is basically considered to be the point of no return. However that is the scenario that we will evidently experience with the emissions shown on presented graphs. Since this trend means that global net zero wouldn't happen for many many decades. However that is just too dark that they will say it openly on live TV.


Submitted for your consideration.
 

SensEye

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I agree. I didn't even get into the whole China/India and the rest of the undeveloped countries that get a free pass to ignore the problem. Only 'the west' can be expected to do the heavy lifting. Most greenies are more interested in using the issue for socialism than fixing the problem anyhow.

Since it seems improbably we'll ever work together to deal with the issue, humanity will just have to learn to adapt. Or not. I probably won't live long enough to find out, but I might at least get to see which way the wind is blowing. I don't deny carbon levels are rising, but I am not all that sure I trust all the alarmism either.
 

The Cat

Just a Magic Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads.
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Helping People, feeding people, Is NEVER Pointless.
When it comes to helping others as you can:
1-dont-ever-give-up-kchris-osuji.jpg

Remember "Yes, and"...

 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
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Helping People, feeding people, Is NEVER Pointless.
When it comes to helping others as you can:
1-dont-ever-give-up-kchris-osuji.jpg

Remember "Yes, and"...

I understand the point. It's hard for me to think of a "yes and" sometimes, though. I don't want to give people false hope, since I usually hate that. I suppose I can use non-gallows humor, facts, logic, or say something inspirational which I also happen to think is true.
 
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