Obesity Cured in Mice

[Tellenbach]

There used to be a very effective weight loss drug combo on the market called phen fen. People lost lots of pounds but the drugs had a terrible side effect; they destroyed heart valves in a good number of people. Ever since, drug companies have tried to find or design a safer alternative.

If this herb works as well in humans as in rats, then it's a godsend. Not everyone wants to exercise hours at a time and not everyone has the self-control to moderate their eating. This herb could literally save millions of lives; let's bring it to human clinical trials, asap.

 

[Betty Blue]

I just mentioned fasting as a method at the beginning of the thread and all the rest of the debate was about obesity

You mentioned it in several posts and promoted it as a weight loss option.

noone promotes fasting or starvation.

You have several times.

Besides: starvation and fasting (not eating) are not the same. Starvation is when your body lacks the necessary resources. If you are healthy, you are non-obese, then your body may lack the necessary resources after 4 weeks if you are not eating.

Way before 4 weeks even in very healthy people.

Not being obese is not dangerous. How one gets rid of her overweight: I really don't care.

Obesity and anorexia are both dangerous it is not good to promote any one of them.

One can get used to being filled only by liquid after a few days. The first fasting or low calorie diet is a pain in the ass not only because you are fighting against your eating *HABITS*

Most people really can't. It is incredibly rare that you will find people that can endure self starvation.

but because you start to lose fat and a lot of crap stored in your fat may get released. The first time I fasted I felt like crap, like someone who is ill in the first 10 days but on my second fasting I haven't noticed anything.

10 days is really much too much if you are not doing it with wall the proper nutrients added to liquids.

You are physically more tired after two weeks (low blood sugar) but the rest of the things you listed will not happen with healthy people.

No really you are terribly mistaken. Please see the study at the bottom of the page.

If you check out the beginning of the thread you will notice that I had basically the same issue 5 years ago, this is why I decided to try fasting and it worked like a charm for me, it cured me in a single month. I actually tried it because I was fed up with being fat and I stumbled upon things similar to this one: Effects of alternate fasting or very low calorie diet and low calorie diet on metabolic syndrome in severely obese patients

I had all sorts of hormonal imbalances, insulin resistance, and who knows... But again, I'm not promoting anything, I've just mentioned it. The whole debate is about whether obesity is healthy or not, and whether it is visible to other people or not. I think the right answers are pretty obvious. It is recommended to get rid of overweight not because it makes you look good, but because you make a favor for yourself with it by becoming more healthy and powerful. Looking better is just another nice side effect. I give no shit what people think about me, that wasn't the reason for me to lose weight. I'm not seeking the acceptance of others. My health is simply #1 for me.

I really think you don't understand the risks at all, and it is irresponsible of you to promote this kind of self help starvation diet. Please have a look at one of the few scientific studies on starvation, also please note it was under medical supervision and the subjects were still served food of 1570 calories per day, this is considered a starvation ration. Please note that although the studies are lengthy it takes very little time for the effects of starvation to become apparent.

The Great Starvation Experiment, 1944-1945

Another study concluded terrible effects on famine conditions

Minnesota Starvation Experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But really it's not difficult to see what happens to people when they starve, we have plenty of real life horror stories such as in times of war and great famines. Suggesting it is ok to self starve for a month is terribly uninformed.

 

[SiegfriedSchtauffen]

You don't no the difference between starvation and fasting. Those studies are about half year starvation, not fasting. Fasting is at most a few weeks long anyway. Despite this it's funny that the conclusions of the first study are fairly positive... They got very skinny, but they survived without any consequences even after half year of starvation... Wow! The human body rocks. Anyway, fasting is practiced by a lot of religious people without any problems. Although I have nothing to do with religions and tried fasting only because my health sucked I was amazed of the positive effects.

I really do not care who is obese and who isn't (as long as it is not me or maybe my gf) but saying that obesity is "normal" and crying that others' do not treat obesity as normal is also very strange and not the right way of handling the whole thing in my opinion. This is why this thread got so long, arguing about this. I think we shouldn't pretend that prolonged obesity is normal when it obviously isn't. Encouraging people to accept their obesity is ridiculous. If you search for obesity and its risks you will find more negative conclusions than in the two articles you linked. Obesity has much more potential to ruin lives than the experiments you linked and noone recommended starvation for people in this thread.

 

[Tellenbach]

Caloric restriction generally results in longer lifespans in many animal species. We need to distinguish between actual starvation, where the body is burning protein for fuel and restricted calories. I've seen several recent scientific studies that show a 600 calorie/day diet over a month or so can reverse type 2 diabetes.

 

[SiegfriedSchtauffen]

Caloric restriction generally results in longer lifespans in many animal species. We need to distinguish between actual starvation, where the body is burning protein for fuel and restricted calories. I've seen several recent scientific studies that show a 600 calorie/day diet over a month or so can reverse type 2 diabetes.

A few years ago I had a really bad year, I spent it being quite depressed, didn't care about anything, eating shit, sweets and stuff. Doing this for almost a year completely ruined me. I was fat (with man boobs, about 20kg extra fat), always tired, and I couldn't really sleep. When I came back to reality and realized the amount of crap I accumulated I tried to train and eat clean (salads and stuff like that) but I was basically unable to train and lose weigh. Maybe the worst thing was being unable to sleep more than about 5 hours a day. In the following 3 months I visited about 10 docs (including endocrinologists) who diagnosed a lot of crap. All my hormone levels were fucked up and a lot of other things were terrible (mild hypertension, insulin resistance is halfway between normal and terrible, ...).

I'm really not a big fan of medications but for about 3 months I let them to feed me with thyroid altering medications, I let them to inject things like hcg, testosterone and similar shit into me, and it just made things worse usually for a few days. When I realized that visiting doctors is pointless I browsed forums for other ideas and this is how I stumbled upon fasting. Before that I didn't even know that a human being can go without food for days without dying. I really wouldn't have expected it to sort out all of my problems within a month. When I went back to the doc about 2-3 months later he couldn't believe his eyes, the way I looked (totally athletic) and everything else was normal, I was completely healthy. Although none of the docs said that I have metabolic disorder I'm pretty sure I had it or at least something very similar. What I've learned from this is huge: medical science is not an exact science and it is quite limited. The self healing capabilities of my body within the right conditions were far superior to the sum of the knowledge of a group of doctors. In some cases doctors don't know what to do.

Fasting is a very powerful tool, and yes, it comes with risks like every other powerful tool, but it doesn't give someone anorexia, that is reasoning against something with a very extreme case. Similarly, we could forbid people using knives or sharp objects because some people are willing to hurt themselves as a result of some weird mental disorder. I'm using knives for decades and I still don't feel the desire to hurt myself. Similarly, I don't have anorexia and I never had it.

 

[Tellenbach]

I think knowing the patient's diet is very important and should be a part of every doctor's consultation; unfortunately, doctors only get 1 or 2 weeks of nutritional training in medical school so the average doctor knows less about nutrition than a vegan or your typical health freak. This is why the nutritional aspect is ignored by most doctors today.

 

[Betty Blue]

You don't no the difference between starvation and fasting. Those studies are about half year starvation, not fasting. Fasting is at most a few weeks long anyway. Despite this it's funny that the conclusions of the first study are fairly positive... They got very skinny, but they survived without any consequences even after half year of starvation... Wow! The human body rocks. Anyway, fasting is practiced by a lot of religious people without any problems. Although I have nothing to do with religions and tried fasting only because my health sucked I was amazed of the positive effects.

I really do not care who is obese and who isn't (as long as it is not me or maybe my gf) but saying that obesity is "normal" and crying that others' do not treat obesity as normal is also very strange and not the right way of handling the whole thing in my opinion. This is why this thread got so long, arguing about this. I think we shouldn't pretend that prolonged obesity is normal when it obviously isn't. Encouraging people to accept their obesity is ridiculous. If you search for obesity and its risks you will find more negative conclusions than in the two articles you linked. Obesity has much more potential to ruin lives than the experiments you linked and noone recommended starvation for people in this thread.

(apologies edited to removed incorrect statement). These people all had food every day. Note that it equals a level of Famine. Just over 1500 calories a day of foods such as bread potatoes and gruel, they were testing famine conditions on volunteer subjects that were interviewed and selected based on their mental sounds and level of fitness first, even of those some had to be dismissed due to their stealing.

The largest issue faced was mental health, hallucinations, reduction of heart size, depression. One of the subjects became so distressed he cut off three of his own fingers. He afterwards could not tell what had made him do it.

This is why I think suggesting it is fine for someone to go a whole month without food and only have water is absolutely ludicrous. The amount a persons mental health and clarity will suffer in that time is tremendous. For example it would be very dangerous to drive or operate machinery or be in charge of looking after anyone else.

The physical effects are also dangerous, vital organs shrink and infections are much more easy to pick up and harder to fight off. You may pass out etc. It really is incredibly naive and irresponsible to suggest it.

 

[spirilis]

No they were not, you need to actually read it before you make assertions. The second one was a based on 12 weeks on just under half the daily recommended amount of calories... there was a monitored period before on a regular calorie diet for 12 weeks and a period of recovery afterwards. There was no six months starvation. These people all had food every day. Note that it equals a level of Famine. Just over 1500 calories a day of foods such as bread potatoes and gruel, they were testing famine conditions on volunteer subjects that were interviewed and selected based on their mental sounds and level of fitness first, even of those some had to be dismissed due to their stealing.

The largest issue faced was mental health, hallucinations, reduction of heart size, depression. One of the subjects became so distressed he cut off three of his own fingers. He afterwards could not tell what had made him do it.

This is why I think suggesting it is fine for someone to go a whole month without food and only have water is absolutely ludicrous. The amount a persons mental health and clarity will suffer in that time is tremendous. For example it would be very dangerous to drive or operate machinery or be in charge of looking after anyone else.

The physical effects are also dangerous, vital organs shrink and infections are much more easy to pick up and harder to fight off. You may pass out etc. It really is incredibly naive and irresponsible to suggest it.

I know this isn't your focus in your point, but the fact you mentioned it was 1500 calories of "bread, potatoes and gruel" is actually quite striking to me and has my thoughts going.

True starvation is a ketogenic, fat-burning mode of metabolism, but 1500 calories of carbs will keep the body in a state where it's less adapted to fat-burning (there seems to be a genuine "period of adaptation" to getting the body's various organs adapted to use ketones as oxidative fuel in place of glucose; this is the annoying crankyness of the Atkins "induction phase"), and I wonder if that has a lot to do with the negative symptoms they experienced.

In a genuinely fat-oriented metabolic fuel profile, the body can ask for as many calories as it wants (it usually asks for less as time goes on but that's somewhat self-regulating), as the uptake of fuel by the various bodily cells depresses the insulin response with the fat cells releasing fat into the blood faster as a result, with the liver producing ketones from the excess which in turn upregulate an insulin response (but less so as the organs absorb and use those ketones); it's a self-regulating pattern. But this depends on the glycolytic organs (brain being a biggie) being adapted to ketones. If they are not, then feeding them 1500 calories of carbs a day would produce a true "starvation" situation where the body gets some of the calories it needs -- then when the carbs are all gone, and fat is liberated, the ketones produced by the liver may fall on "deaf ears" so to speak, leaving it in the bloodstream with insulin upregulating as a result, stemming the release of fat -- but the catch here is that the *body's cells aren't getting enough of the fuel they expect* so bad, bad things happen, cells die, etc. Liver substantially consumes protein to try and produce enough glucose to meet demand (as the chiefly glycolytic cells are consuming nothing but glucose, which causes low blood sugar = glucagon release by pancreas = stimulated gluconeogenesis by the liver), and that in turn stimulates protein liberation i.e. catabolism, muscle/organ protein loss throughout the body.

Give those guys 1500 calories of fat and protein and then re-do the experiment... (or not, better yet, let's try not to starve people.)

 

[Betty Blue]

A few years ago I had a really bad year, I spent it being quite depressed, didn't care about anything, eating shit, sweets and stuff. Doing this for almost a year completely ruined me. I was fat (with man boobs, about 20kg extra fat), always tired, and I couldn't really sleep. When I came back to reality and realized the amount of crap I accumulated I tried to train and eat clean (salads and stuff like that) but I was basically unable to train and lose weigh. Maybe the worst thing was being unable to sleep more than about 5 hours a day. In the following 3 months I visited about 10 docs (including endocrinologists) who diagnosed a lot of crap. All my hormone levels were fucked up and a lot of other things were terrible (mild hypertension, insulin resistance is halfway between normal and terrible, ...).

I'm really not a big fan of medications but for about 3 months I let them to feed me with thyroid altering medications, I let them to inject things like hcg, testosterone and similar shit into me, and it just made things worse usually for a few days. When I realized that visiting doctors is pointless I browsed forums for other ideas and this is how I stumbled upon fasting. Before that I didn't even know that a human being can go without food for days without dying. I really wouldn't have expected it to sort out all of my problems within a month. When I went back to the doc about 2-3 months later he couldn't believe his eyes, the way I looked (totally athletic) and everything else was normal, I was completely healthy. Although none of the docs said that I have metabolic disorder I'm pretty sure I had it or at least something very similar. What I've learned from this is huge: medical science is not an exact science and it is quite limited. The self healing capabilities of my body within the right conditions were far superior to the sum of the knowledge of a group of doctors. In some cases doctors don't know what to do.

Fasting is a very powerful tool, and yes, it comes with risks like every other powerful tool, but it doesn't give someone anorexia, that is reasoning against something with a very extreme case. Similarly, we could forbid people using knives or sharp objects because some people are willing to hurt themselves as a result of some weird mental disorder. I'm using knives for decades and I still don't feel the desire to hurt myself. Similarly, I don't have anorexia and I never had it.

Anorexia is a common side effect of fasting and self starvation. You would realise that if you read the links. Excerpt...

"One of the crucial observations of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment discussed by a number of researchers in the nutritional sciences—including Ancel Keys—is that the physical effects of the induced semi-starvation during the study closely approximate the conditions experienced by people with a range of eating disorders such as anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa. As a result of the study it has been postulated that many of the profound social and psychological effects of these disorders may result from undernutrition, and recovery depends on physical re-nourishment as well as psychological treatment.[1]:199–200"

 

[Betty Blue]

I know this isn't your focus in your point, but the fact you mentioned it was 1500 calories of "bread, potatoes and gruel" is actually quite striking to me and has my thoughts going.

True starvation is a ketogenic, fat-burning mode of metabolism, but 1500 calories of carbs will keep the body in a state where it's less adapted to fat-burning (there seems to be a genuine "period of adaptation" to getting the body's various organs adapted to use ketones as oxidative fuel in place of glucose; this is the annoying crankyness of the Atkins "induction phase"), and I wonder if that has a lot to do with the negative symptoms they experienced.

In a genuinely fat-oriented metabolic fuel profile, the body can ask for as many calories as it wants (it usually asks for less as time goes on but that's somewhat self-regulating), as the uptake of fuel by the various bodily cells depresses the insulin response with the fat cells releasing fat into the blood faster as a result, with the liver producing ketones from the excess which in turn upregulate an insulin response (but less so as the organs absorb and use those ketones); it's a self-regulating pattern. But this depends on the glycolytic organs (brain being a biggie) being adapted to ketones. If they are not, then feeding them 1500 calories of carbs a day would produce a true "starvation" situation where the body gets some of the calories it needs -- then when the carbs are all gone, and fat is liberated, the ketones produced by the liver may fall on "deaf ears" so to speak, leaving it in the bloodstream with insulin upregulating as a result, stemming the release of fat -- but the catch here is that the *body's cells aren't getting enough of the fuel they expect* so bad, bad things happen, cells die, etc. Liver substantially consumes protein to try and produce enough glucose to meet demand (as the chiefly glycolytic cells are consuming nothing but glucose, which causes low blood sugar = glucagon release by pancreas = stimulated gluconeogenesis by the liver), and that in turn stimulates protein liberation i.e. catabolism, muscle/organ protein loss throughout the body.

Give those guys 1500 calories of fat and protein and then re-do the experiment... (or not, better yet, let's try not to starve people.)

Well those experiments would never be allowed today (they were what i had to work with), they were allowed specifically to test for what could be done with the looming famines after the second world war. The point is if someone has a diet which is means tested it will be ok, however telling someone it is ok not to eat for a whole month is insanity and WILL promote anorexia.

 

[spirilis]

Well those experiments would never be allowed today (they were what i had to work with), they were allowed specifically to test for what could be done with the looming famines after the second world war. The point is if someone has a diet which is means tested it will be ok, however telling someone it is ok not to eat for a whole month is insanity and WILL promote anorexia.

I hear what you're saying, but given the degree of potential brain damage (speculative) that this "1500 calorie a day carb diet" did to these people, I would be quite curious if true starvation would cause the same level of mental disturbance - and thus - question the premise that it WILL cause anorexia. The means of Ancel Keys' experiment confounds the results IMO. And that's all I really have to offer for that.

 

[Betty Blue]

I hear what you're saying, but given the degree of potential brain damage (speculative) that this "1500 calorie a day carb diet" did to these people, I would be quite curious if true starvation would cause the same level of mental disturbance - and thus - question the premise that it WILL cause anorexia. The means of Ancel Keys' experiment confounds the results IMO. And that's all I really have to offer for that.

Well we do have cases where people have been stranded for example and starved that way. It most certainly does cause a great deal of mental disturbance. Think of the Chilean plane disaster for example. Most people turn to cannibalism when they have no other option and there are dead people around. But also many other single cases of people being stranded. People who self starve e.g hunger strikes also report great mental disturbances, hallucinations, confusion. There are cases of prison hunger strikes ... this looks promising...

What Happens on a Hunger Strike | Fasting


excerpt

"After the third day of a hunger strike, the body starts to use muscle protein to make glucose, a sugar that's needed for cell metabolism. Levels of important electrolytes, such as potassium, fall to dangerous levels. The body also loses fat and muscle mass.

After two weeks, people on a hunger strike may have difficulty standing; they can also suffer from severe dizziness, sluggishness, weakness, loss of coordination, low heart rate and a chilled feeling.

Low levels of thiamine (vitamin B1) become a real risk after two or three weeks and can result in severe neurological problems, including cognitive impairment, vision loss and lack of motor skills.

Permanent complications and death

After more than a month of fasting, or when more than 18 percent of body weight is lost, severe and permanent medical complications can occur. It can become very difficult to swallow water, hearing and vision loss can occur, breathing can become labored and organ failure can start to set in.

Beyond 45 days, death is a very real risk, due to cardiovascular collapse or severe infection.

Aside from the physical damage suffered by hunger strikers, psychological changes causing impulsive and aggressive behavior are common. These effects can "enhance the likelihood that [hunger strikers] will starve themselves to death," according to a report from the Journal of Medical Ethics.

Even after a hunger strike ends, refeeding has some real risks, since the metabolic changes that occur during severe fasting can be profound."

 

[spirilis]

Well we do have cases where people have been stranded for example and starved that way. It most certainly does cause a great deal of mental disturbance. Think of the Chilean plane disaster for example. Most people turn to cannibalism when they have no other option and there are dead people around. But also many other single cases of people being stranded. People who self starve e.g hunger strikes also report great mental disturbances, hallucinations, confusion. There are cases of prison hunger strikes ... this looks promising...

What Happens on a Hunger Strike | Fasting


excerpt

"After the third day of a hunger strike, the body starts to use muscle protein to make glucose, a sugar that's needed for cell metabolism. Levels of important electrolytes, such as potassium, fall to dangerous levels. The body also loses fat and muscle mass.

After two weeks, people on a hunger strike may have difficulty standing; they can also suffer from severe dizziness, sluggishness, weakness, loss of coordination, low heart rate and a chilled feeling.

Low levels of thiamine (vitamin B1) become a real risk after two or three weeks and can result in severe neurological problems, including cognitive impairment, vision loss and lack of motor skills.

Permanent complications and death

After more than a month of fasting, or when more than 18 percent of body weight is lost, severe and permanent medical complications can occur. It can become very difficult to swallow water, hearing and vision loss can occur, breathing can become labored and organ failure can start to set in.

Beyond 45 days, death is a very real risk, due to cardiovascular collapse or severe infection.

Aside from the physical damage suffered by hunger strikers, psychological changes causing impulsive and aggressive behavior are common. These effects can "enhance the likelihood that [hunger strikers] will starve themselves to death," according to a report from the Journal of Medical Ethics.

Even after a hunger strike ends, refeeding has some real risks, since the metabolic changes that occur during severe fasting can be profound."

That's juicier info for sure. Sounds like it is just a bad idea overall, or if you do it, better have a solid electrolyte + vitamin regimen going... (if that would even help as the digestive system loses its state of tune)

 

[Betty Blue]

I think knowing the patient's diet is very important and should be a part of every doctor's consultation; unfortunately, doctors only get 1 or 2 weeks of nutritional training in medical school so the average doctor knows less about nutrition than a vegan or your typical health freak. This is why the nutritional aspect is ignored by most doctors today.

Exactly and promoting a 600 calorie a day diet without proper consideration for what that 600 calories consists of, what additional nutrients you will need to add to that diet, what to do if you experience certain side effects and all sorts of other guidelines is plain stupid.

 

[SiegfriedSchtauffen]

(apologies edited to removed incorrect statement). These people all had food every day. Note that it equals a level of Famine. Just over 1500 calories a day of foods such as bread potatoes and gruel, they were testing famine conditions on volunteer subjects that were interviewed and selected based on their mental sounds and level of fitness first, even of those some had to be dismissed due to their stealing.

I think in this case the problem was not the number of calories. 1500 if fairly large daily amount if you are not forced to do physical work however it can be a problem that those foods are low quality when it comes to nutrient value. My food is always high quality so I would be unable to tell what would happen to someone who is eating sweets or McDonald's all the time before a longer fast. Don't eat crap. Eating only bread and a few similar stupid foods for half year is really a bad idea even without caloric restrictions.

The largest issue faced was mental health, hallucinations, reduction of heart size, depression. One of the subjects became so distressed he cut off three of his own fingers. He afterwards could not tell what had made him do it.

This is why I think suggesting it is fine for someone to go a whole month without food and only have water is absolutely ludicrous. The amount a persons mental health and clarity will suffer in that time is tremendous. For example it would be very dangerous to drive or operate machinery or be in charge of looking after anyone else.

Half year is a terribly long time, I wouldn't compare that to few weeks. The experiments differ a lot from a simple fasting in many ways (several large stress factors, period of time) so its a very unfair comparison. Fasting a few days or weeks is much different. Although difference in duration is huge, the biggest difference may be something else: Being forced by others to do this is not the same as doing it on your own in a peaceful environment by knowing that you can interrupt it any time. These result in a much different mindset. A hunger strike would also have a much different mental effect than what I described and it involves huge stress coming from other source from the beginning. Not eating indeed gives you some degree of mental and physical stress and I wouldn't recommend mixing it with other huge stress factors, doing so would be really foolish.

If you have a sick mindset you don't have to limit your food intake to suffer. If you start out from a mentally sick/bad state then you have high chances to fail in almost everything in life. People who can not push their mindset towards positive (aka depressed people) often become weak and physically sick anyway. Mental stress is a huge silent killer. It's the individuals responsibility to keep himself/herself mentally healthy and it is a comfortable thing to blame some external factors for "depression" (even if they are indeed present) when the biggest negative factor often comes from not taking responsibility.

The physical effects are also dangerous, vital organs shrink and infections are much more easy to pick up and harder to fight off. You may pass out etc. It really is incredibly naive and irresponsible to suggest it.

Everything comes with a price. If you take a look at photos of people who died of hunger you will notice that before dying, almost all of them shrunk to about 30-40 kilos of total weigh. You will find people who recovered from serious anorexia without any permanent damage. From that I would suspect that the body is very-very good at preserving the most important parts. Losing little useful mass from some organs including your heart isn't necessarily a permanent damage and it may be a good tradeoff if you lose a lot of crap at the same time. Which one is worse: an overworking heart that has to feed your overweight with hypertension till the end of your life, or losing some heart muscle mass (along with a lot of fat) and then being able to train and recover a powerful muscular body. Muscle can be regained quickly and the overall benefits can easily outweigh the disadvantages. Most organs catch up and regenerate very quickly. On the other hand you lose energy gradually. Not much after 3 weeks of fasting I felt that the time has come to end my fast (and I'd already reached what I wanted anyway) and I was quite far from being passed out or going crazy. If you are not stressed (mentally/physically) and you can fight boredom with some TODOs (reading/learning) then there is nothing unbearably stressful. My mind also worked like a charm from beginning to the end, I've worked a lot on my own projects. Running out of nutrients said to have obvious uncomfortable signs before serious damage.

Although I have researched fasting only for about a month before using it to heal myself I've read that the immune activity of your body is very good if you are not actually starving, your body consumes even the bacteria as fuel and a lot of different bacterias and fungal infections die because of your low blood sugar. Some suggest that nerve regeneration (including the brain) speeds up extremely after a few days of fasting. And again, we are not talking about starvation where your body lacks important nutrients and you are dying. I'm still alive and I'm much healthier than before my long fasting. Although I've found a lot of crap too online. A lot of people are doing this very regularly as a sport that is stupidity and makes this method ridiculous in the eyes of many. I was also skeptical of fasting especially because of these stupid people, and because I tend to have negative bias towards things that are connected with religions and folklore tales. Anyway, not eating for weeks sounds stupid and impossible. I probably wouldn't have tried it if I wasn't seriously fucked up. What I write may also be bullshit and lie. A stranger can tell whatever he wants. In case of medication related science a lot of things have been found with experiments, often without accurate explanations. If you have a condition that is not trivial to heal (like a broken arm) then either the doctors or you yourself have to start experimenting with things, or simply helping your body to deal with the problem itself. I'm not doing fasting as a sport, its more than two years that I've done a short 1 week fast to get rid of a little crap but I know from my own experience that it has huge potential to fix problems. The best is if you simply don't screw yourself and you keep yourself healthy all the time. In my opinion if you are screwed up and your body doesn't have obvious problems that would make fasting impossible or dangerous then give fasting a shot. Not eating for a few days may be difficult and irrational but believe me that it carries much less danger than allowing doctors or yourself to stuff your body with serious, potent medications, chemicals in the hope of losing weight or curing your metabolic disorder, insulin resistance, and whatever plague that is in connection with your obesity. Not eating for some days is handled very gracefully by your body. Being able to go without food for days is your gift from evolution along with the ability to store fat. Fasting is much more natural than altering the chemistry of your body with harsh chemicals.

 

[SiegfriedSchtauffen]

When doing a longer fast its obvious that people *have to* feed their body some nutrients, but the calorie intake can still be nearly zero that results in huge fat loss. Several people proved that it works. The only long fast I performed was 5 years ago and I did it with pure water with seriously screwed up health and I still didn't notice any serious problems even after 3 weeks. Not eating was indeed very uncomfortable and boring especially in the first few days but people over-dramatize the possible side effects. Yeah, they may happen. Anything can happen, but these *possible side effects* are not much worse than those listed on the description of any ordinary medication and not eating is much natural than consuming medications and chemicals.

 

[Betty Blue]

Well we do have cases where people have been stranded for example and starved that way. It most certainly does cause a great deal of mental disturbance. Think of the Chilean plane disaster for example. Most people turn to cannibalism when they have no other option and there are dead people around. But also many other single cases of people being stranded. People who self starve e.g hunger strikes also report great mental disturbances, hallucinations, confusion. There are cases of prison hunger strikes ... this looks promising...

What Happens on a Hunger Strike | Fasting


excerpt

"After the third day of a hunger strike, the body starts to use muscle protein to make glucose, a sugar that's needed for cell metabolism. Levels of important electrolytes, such as potassium, fall to dangerous levels. The body also loses fat and muscle mass.

After two weeks, people on a hunger strike may have difficulty standing; they can also suffer from severe dizziness, sluggishness, weakness, loss of coordination, low heart rate and a chilled feeling.

Low levels of thiamine (vitamin B1) become a real risk after two or three weeks and can result in severe neurological problems, including cognitive impairment, vision loss and lack of motor skills.

Permanent complications and death

After more than a month of fasting, or when more than 18 percent of body weight is lost, severe and permanent medical complications can occur. It can become very difficult to swallow water, hearing and vision loss can occur, breathing can become labored and organ failure can start to set in.

Beyond 45 days, death is a very real risk, due to cardiovascular collapse or severe infection.

Aside from the physical damage suffered by hunger strikers, psychological changes causing impulsive and aggressive behavior are common. These effects can "enhance the likelihood that [hunger strikers] will starve themselves to death," according to a report from the Journal of Medical Ethics.

Even after a hunger strike ends, refeeding has some real risks, since the metabolic changes that occur during severe fasting can be profound."

When doing a longer fast its obvious that people *have to* feed their body some nutrients, but the calorie intake can still be nearly zero that results in huge fat loss. Several people proved that it works. The only long fast I performed was 5 years ago and I did it with pure water with seriously screwed up health and I still didn't notice any serious problems even after 3 weeks. Not eating was indeed very uncomfortable and boring especially in the first few days but people over-dramatize the possible side effects. Yeah, they may happen. Anything can happen, but these *possible side effects* are not much worse than those listed on the description of any ordinary medication and not eating is much natural than consuming medications and chemicals.

Quoting my previous quote for you. Please read it and stop saying it's a dramatisation. This is what the medical field states about not eating food and the effects it has on the body and mind from three days onwards. Including irreparable damage to organs. Just because you got away with it does not mean you should encourage it in others. The people on hunger strike has medical help and observation.

The bolded above is from three days to three weeks. Educate yourself and stop advocating something which is dangerous.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Awesome! But [MENTION=20113]Tellenbach[/MENTION], will the kitty cat in your avatar be equally happy about all the new skinny mice?

 

[SiegfriedSchtauffen]

Quoting my previous quote for you. Please read it and stop saying it's a dramatisation. This is what the medical field states about not eating food and the effects it has on the body and mind from three days onwards. Including irreparable damage to organs. Just because you got away with it does not mean you should encourage it in others. The people on hunger strike has medical help and observation.

The bolded above is from three days to three weeks. Educate yourself and stop advocating something which is dangerous.

Thanks for quoting it again, but I've already read it. I still don't see the difference between your quote, the side effects of medications, and the side effects of obesity. All of these are *possible* side effects. You don't take less risks with ordinary medications than with a few days of fasting. Rewards come only with risks.

 

[Tellenbach]

will the kitty cat in your avatar be equally happy about all the new skinny mice?

Obese mice are cute but Mochi doesn't eat mice; he eats canned cat food.