I still can't find the workshop I was telling you about but there is a test I think you will get a kick out off. It's clearly for purposes of entertainment and not scientifically viable
Male Or Female Brain? Brain Gender Test
I found it interesting that Ronda Rousey (arguably a woman who has embraced masculinity to a degree that few women have) after losing her undefeated streak, was in a demonstrably feminine state, tearfully recalling thoughts of suicide as she relied on her strong man for support.
Hi [MENTION=23796]Crabs[/MENTION]
All men and women are scaled along "so called" feminine and masculine traits. As a woman, I would say my ratio falls around 68:32.
Most humans relate better to people that have counter-balanced traits. For example, in writing we are taught that endearing characters who the public can relate to are approximately 63:37 on the scale. Gender traits are exaggerated to produce 'villainous' characters. ie. A female approaching 100 percent female traits will come off as a nympho, aggressive, mentally unbalanced, weak.. A male character at 100 percent will appear brutishly aggressive, coarse and arrogant.
Biology is huge. Society is also a contributor: a man who enjoys art, is fluidly physically expressive and sensitive will never be lauded for his 'manliness.
Yet, surrendering ourselves to our TOTAL person is an incredible measure of strength.
of course you did. Confirmation bias.
I think there are things that we culturally associate with men and women... but the more you break it down, the more you realize it's socially-pushed-on nuances vs straight biological instincts.
Both men and women are prone to fighting... the causes of why may seem to be very different, but the want to fight is the same in both sexes. Do women fight more often? No. More often than not, that's socially and culturally driven... women are taught from before birth to be quiet and meek and rely on others for that. No one is going to deny that in nature some of the most fiercest animals fighting are female animals protecting their young... but yet, in humanity, it's shocking a woman would desire a lifestyle of fighting when she hasn't been growing up constrained.. and quickly pounce and jump on any opportunity for her to be emotional and human as a sort of soothing balm for the fact that she's breaking code.
If you've never heard of a man pouring his heart out about suicidal ideations and relying on others, particularly their family or spouse, for support, then you really just haven't been listening.
There ARE things very feminine and masculine on a functional level... the problem is, people still associate these social differences as being hard-and-fast and often negative, which is why I really get irked at the very mention of them. If they were just there to be noticed in an objective and "Oh, so that's that huh?" way, maybe not such a big deal. But insidious things like the quoted are why I hate this sort of talk. It doesn't SEEM like a big deal, or seem cruel or limiting on the woman.. but there it is.. The reality? More men find it "interesting" that she acted like what they want her to act like vs what she really is--a bad ass and awesome warrior that's also just plain human.
I mean... what do we really hope to gain from trying to pinpoint traits and actions as masculine and feminine? What is the true goal in that? There really isn't much to be gained. I think people need to all find a balance in their lives.. the most annoying, dull, and useless people I've ever met in my life are those that focus SO hard on being masculine or being feminine that that's their whole personality. A lot of stupid dumb shit is done in the name of wanting to be noticed as masculine or feminine.
Hopefully, if you're really lucky: You've got a balance of traits that allows you to seamlessly interacting with both halves of the population and relate and connect to them. Those men who claim they "cannot understand women" and women who think "all men are x" just ride off self-fulfilling prophecies, confirmation bias, and other fallacies for their own short comings in being unable to connect with their own emotions, or connect with emotional survival techniques, or simple laziness with things that require manual physical labor, etc.
That's interesting. I'd be curious to know what traits those countries view as masculine vs feminine.
I agree with you about western feminists embracing masculinity to a large degree. It seems that some eastern countries are perhaps more feminine than they are balanced, however - both men and women. I've heard that is why some guys have a penchant for Asians, because they're so docile and dainty in contrast to western women whom collectively became more masculine over time. I personally don't find the average western woman to be too masculine though.
It's interesting you mention that ratio. I'd be curious to see some sort of international survey indicating how various cultures rank traits on a masculine-feminine dichotomy. In the west, I think it has become too politically incorrect to acknowledge such differences at all.
Hyper-masculinity/femininity can't be healthy in any individual and probably doesn't lead to very successful relationships.
(...) I honestly think you're speaking about masculine and feminine energy you're making it too much about your own perception about sexuality, rather than about masculine and feminine energy.
There's nothing feminine about being depressed or suicidal. Lots of men commit suicide, and there are men who see their gf or spouse as an emotional anchor, it depends on the individual. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors.
I think emotional immaturity leads to the stereotypes...and a lot of people are emotionally immature.
A woman shedding tears may be being strong and true to her inner self and intellectually able to express her reasoning and values or she could be emotionally immature and needy. Depends.
Same for a guy, he could be angry and dominant without being aware of the needs of those around him, or he could be authentic and passionate about a cause, able to show his controlled emotions appropriately in support of his reasoning.
I tend to look for complex thinking, ability to handle paradox, good rational explanations and authentic differentiated values and emotions shown appropriately. Anyone is capable of learning to be honest and become mature.
I am not particularly feminine, but I am not at all masculine. What is left? I am blorp.
I think there are things that we culturally associate with men and women... but the more you break it down, the more you realize it's socially-pushed-on nuances vs straight biological instincts.
Both men and women are prone to fighting... the causes of why may seem to be very different, but the want to fight is the same in both sexes. Do women fight more often? No. More often than not, that's socially and culturally driven... women are taught from before birth to be quiet and meek and rely on others for that. No one is going to deny that in nature some of the most fiercest animals fighting are female animals protecting their young... but yet, in humanity, it's shocking a woman would desire a lifestyle of fighting when she hasn't been growing up constrained.. and quickly pounce and jump on any opportunity for her to be emotional and human as a sort of soothing balm for the fact that she's breaking code.
If you've never heard of a man pouring his heart out about suicidal ideations and relying on others, particularly their family or spouse, for support, then you really just haven't been listening.
Yeah [MENTION=23796]Crabs[/MENTION], in other parts of the globe attitudes do differ. ie. I've been in countries where it is considered impressive when men weep with strong emotion. It's perceived as strength and they don't have to hurriedly wipe tears away at funerals or births etc...
I did not see this post but this is correct. I've been in countries with such attitudes as well. Where crying in public is viewed as a strength.
I wonder why English and American culture equated lack of emotions with masculinity - the Indian view makes more sense to me, that men would presume they had greater depth of emotion, because of the tendency in more than one culture (including the West) for men to believe women are fickle, changeable creatures led by money or pretty things..aka the "nice guy" chip on his shoulder because the specific woman he wanted didn't want to have sex with him, so women, those emotional whores, damn them, can't love as strongly as myself! Of course it's a ridiculous assumption, but I have seen it in different cultures presented as women being more practical or mercenary....a lot of that is culturally created though, since women who married for love or lust, could be left alone with children or struggle by with a poor man, since women didn't work or earn money in some eras (though ironically, in more primitive cultures women are indespinsible, not just for sex or child rearing, but for gathering, weaving, and taking care of tasks essential to daily life in a village).
Perhaps English/American men culturally labeled emotions as feminine because of Western philosophy being so structurally rigid...but that honestly doesn't make sense, since Mediterranean European men are allowed to hug, kiss and express emotions other than rage. Of course because of the association with women being a chaos which needs to be controlled and made to submit, emotions may have been so associated with that "chaos" that the over-Masculinity of the West begun in an attempt to impose a very rigid rational restraint that doesn't allow for a more holistic masculine- feminine balance in the culture, or themselves as men.
An unfortunate outcome of the industrial revolution, I suppose. There was a strong movement towards maximum efficiency, as if this was the best goal for organizing a society.
Emotion was viewed as weak and inefficient. Ex. a 19th century industrialist couldn't abuse women and children the way that was typical if they let emotions interfere. The brutal indifference to life and the environment interfered with efficiency.
Far better to build an empire then "evolve" and give away some money later to soothe the emotions, I guess.
On this point, I recently talked with an acquaintance. He has an MBA and works for a multinational drug company, but has a side business with his brother. He bragged about his brother colluding with competitors to fix bids on a job among other things. He is nominally a good religious person, but, for him, everything is fair in business and he didn't want to consider what they were doing as illegal and unethical, no matter his personal standards where he would never steal a piece of fruit or lie.
Nature vs. nurture... who knows, right? Having lived in several different countries taught me that most of what I thought was "just human nature" is actually...not natural at all and something forced on us.
Yup. Unfortunately, a few months in college will teach you that right quick. Or hell, ask a college counselor.
That was several years ago for me now, but there was a time I was HOPING there was a gender skew in suicide attempts.
I think the underlying assumption there is that absolute control over nature is preferable to working with nature in a balance...the way people lived once they were swift enough to organize themselves into societies and produce agriculture. ...so women, like animals, were viewed as nature which had to be dominated and brought under strict control...that attitude of course is present in Medieval Islamic culture to an unsettling degree, in which women are actually compared to live stock in their religious text...but there is the underlying view, exaggerated into something destructive and unhealthy ...an excess of masculine energy is associated with excessive rigidity and death, not just because of war, but because the lack of flexibility or suppleness associated with life. ..both the masculine and feminine are therefore necessary for a balance between life and death, between mankind and nature, and consequently between men and women...the industrial revolution and later worship of science reached a peak of environmental destruction, which ironically is something utterly opposed to reason, rationality or common sense, to pollute the air one breathes, the water one drinks, etc....it appears to be a weird self glorification that is underscored by a deep subconscious self hatred, then that hatred is projected on to nature and women.
All in the name of efficiency yes. ..in fact the US is frequently referred to as a Te dominant culture...but why the imbalance? Hatred of religion? Hatred of God? I don't know if I'm rambling at this point.
I still can't find the workshop I was telling you about but there is a test I think you will get a kick out off. It's clearly for purposes of entertainment and not scientifically viable
Male Or Female Brain? Brain Gender Test
Some of the questions were so lolz.
I wonder why English and American culture equated lack of emotions with masculinity - the Indian view makes more sense to me, that men would presume they had greater depth of emotion, because of the tendency in more than one culture (including the West) for men to believe women are fickle, changeable creatures led by money or pretty things..aka the "nice guy" chip on his shoulder because the specific woman he wanted didn't want to have sex with him, so women, those emotional whores, damn them, can't love as strongly as myself! Of course it's a ridiculous assumption, but I have seen it in different cultures presented as women being more practical or mercenary....a lot of that is culturally created though, since women who married for love or lust, could be left alone with children or struggle by with a poor man, since women didn't work or earn money in some eras (though ironically, in more primitive cultures women are indespinsible, not just for sex or child rearing, but for gathering, weaving, and taking care of tasks essential to daily life in a village).
Perhaps English/American men culturally labeled emotions as feminine because of Western philosophy being so structurally rigid...but that honestly doesn't make sense, since Mediterranean European men are allowed to hug, kiss and express emotions other than rage. Of course because of the association with women being a chaos which needs to be controlled and made to submit, emotions may have been so associated with that "chaos" that the over-Masculinity of the West begun in an attempt to impose a very rigid rational restraint that doesn't allow for a more holistic masculine- feminine balance in the culture, or themselves as men.
"We just get reflected back into more of what we know about what we know about what we know about what we know about what we know what we know what we know what we know what we know....."