Some elaboration:
I agree with burymecloser here. If someone's jokes give me a gut reaction and makes me feel hurt, that's not something cerebral that I can change by willpower alone.
He likes church. He's had positive experience when he's gone there before. He loves the music. He's told me this before. He likes everything about it, but was uncomfortable. Did you notice the *freezes up* things I had in the script in the OP? Those were meant to indicate the feeling of "Oh god, a new situation that I don't fully understand! What do I do???" Also, I never said that she did it every Easter. I said that my MOM and I do it every Easter. VERY different thing! Like I said before, PLEASE read the OP before making judgments like this.
p.s. The fact that you used the word "awful" there, when I hadn't even REMOTELY implied that in the OP, suggests to me that you're projecting your own opinion onto my dad. Please, like I said before, leave your stereotyping at the door.
You tell my dad that. He's the one that used the phrase to describe his own behavior in that situation.
I never said I wanted him to go. When he talked to me about that interaction he had with the sister of the man he takes care of on Sundays, he described himself as such. It seemed to be a tradition thing - similar to what ESTJs are said to do.In regards to your dad
Sounds like he was just social charging. Introverts (especially INTPs) need a lot of time to themselves, sometimes at inconvenient times for others
Also wanting him to go simply cause it is tradition sounds more like the "stick in the mud"
The interaction was not with me, and therefore it does apply to the situation, imo.In regards to the jokes
Does "stick in the mud" really apply to the situation? All that was happening is the miscommunication that happens fairly often with INTPs and ESTJs
I get all of my dad's jokes. I don't get all of my friend's jokes.I agree with the person before who said we get about 20% of each others jokes
I wasn't calling you sticks in the mud. I was saying that the examples I listed seemed to point towards that conclusion, and I was wondering what other people thought of that idea.I don't see how being a stick in the mud is relevant, I don't call ESTJs a stick in the mud when they use their humor style towards me. ESTJs jokes to me are usually offensive and not funny so its not one sided
I'm not dissing INTPs with this thread - after all, I love you guys, and I love my INTP dad and my INTP friends. It's just that these small pieces of evidence are so contrary to the stereotypes that I've heard that I felt the need to verify whether these two INTPs aren't just exceptions to some general rule. And who better to ask than the Ti/Ne folks - the masters of objectivity!
It seems like people are always stereotyping SJs as being sticks in the mud, i.e. having a certain way they think and do things that they never divert from, and that they look down on people who think/act differently. But with two of the INTPs I know, it seems as if they're more like that than the SJs I know.
Examples:
1. With my (female) INTP friend and ESFJ friend, on a road trip.
INTP: *makes a very dry, teasing joke*
Me and ESFJ: *not laughing and thinking the INTP is serious, and being mean to us*
INTP: What's wrong with you? That's like the fifteenth funny joke you haven't appreciated in the past two days! You people have no sense of humor.
^She was serious/frustrated, and not being ironic. I mention this example because many/most non-INTPs I know will adjust their style of humor based on the audience, and this particular INTP stuck with the one style the entire time, despite no one laughing.
2. My INTP dad, who never goes to church (where my mom and I are in the choir) on Easter even though he's religious, talking with the older sister of the autistic man he takes care of every Sunday morning.
Sister: You know, since it's Easter, why don't you take the morning off? You can go to the Easter service.
Dad: Uh... *freezes up*
Sister: It's no problem. You can be with your family for more of the day.
Dad: Um... *still frozen up a bit* no thank you.
Sister: Really, it's no problem. Go ahead.
Dad: Really, no thank you.
Sister: You could take my brother with you.
Dad: I'll take your brother... but it won't be to church. It'll be to do what we usually do.
He made all these excuses to me about that interaction, like how he doesn't know how all the ceremonial stuff works (the church in question is Episcopal), but even he recognized that it was REALLY because he's a self-described "stick in the mud" (which is where I got the thread title from), and that even though he doesn't really have an Easter tradition (more like a Sunday Routine), he's uncomfortable making a new one.
I'm not dissing INTPs with this thread - after all, I love you guys, and I love my INTP dad and my INTP friends. It's just that these small pieces of evidence are so contrary to the stereotypes that I've heard that I felt the need to verify whether these two INTPs aren't just exceptions to some general rule. And who better to ask than the Ti/Ne folks - the masters of objectivity!
INTP jokes sometimes create awkward silences.
Way to get caught on the details of the anecdotes and miss the main point. Some INTPs you are.
Anyways, all types can and will exhibit the entire range of human behavior. The difference will be in that person's cognitive justifications and processes for that behavior. For an INTP, they can certainly be a stick in the mud when faced with situations they don't think offer them any real possibility of learning something new. Or, they're just bums.
SJs probably can be sticks in the mud simply because they tend to not do things that are unfamiliar, because they don't expect they will enjoy them based on what they know they enjoy. INTPs may be the opposite, in that they will avoid the familiar if they think everything of use has already been extracted from it.
lol @ some of the INTP responses in this thread. Way to get caught on the details of the anecdotes and miss the main point. Some INTPs you are.
This response, Jennifer's, and the examples listed by others previously, have really helped, and pretty much answered my question.Anyways, all types can and will exhibit the entire range of human behavior. The difference will be in that person's cognitive justifications and processes for that behavior. For an INTP, they can certainly be a stick in the mud when faced with situations they don't think offer them any real possibility of learning something new. Or, they're just bums.
While your first example is a tad bizarre in that she wasn't reflecting the interaction styles of the group [INTPs do this a lot], your second example is a case where the INTP has made up his mind and simply will not budge.
SJs probably can be sticks in the mud simply because they tend to not do things that are unfamiliar, because they don't expect they will enjoy them based on what they know they enjoy. INTPs may be the opposite, in that they will avoid the familiar if they think everything of use has already been extracted from it.
To the other previous posters on this page:
Firstly... y'all need to read the OP a little more clearly. I recognize that some of you, e.g. kelric, meant well in your comments, and I appreciate it, but that type of discussion is not what this thread is about.
What matters here is the broad statement, and not the little details.
Thirdly, please do me a favor and leave your bias at the door. Don't interpret this as yet another SJ-NT conflict, or, even worse, "those SJs being dense, stupid and ignorant again". That's not even remotely what this is. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
lol @ some of the INTP responses in this thread. Way to get caught on the details of the anecdotes and miss the main point. Some INTPs you are.
Par for the course, for the ones who don't exercise their aux functions...
That's totally dependent on one's perspective.
Uh... Do you mean that in a good way or a bad way?LOL, only in SJ-land is "a stick in the mud" proven by its opposite!
Hey, thanks INTPness! That makes a lot of sense. (Sorry I kind of snapped earlier. It was my Te wanting everyone to be on task...) Interesting how much one's outlook changes things in that sort of situation. Never thought that "not being set in other people's ways" would be the motivation there. Thanks for the insight!I'd like to enter a guilty plea. I realized I wasn't on point about half-way through my post and just figured I'd go ahead and complete my thoughts. I ranted a bit because communications with SJ's are some of the most perplexing and confusing things that happen in my daily life. I want to understand them better and I want to get along with them better, but we're often just worlds apart. It's frustrating.
Back to the point at hand: I think INTP's appear to be sticks-in-the-mud to many people, because we are so iconoclastic and non-conformist. That, coupled with people not always getting our humor, we can definitely come off as killjoys.
And this might sound kind of strange, but I don't see myself as "set in my ways" as much as I am just determined to "not be set in other people's ways". I often find myself trying to slip out of any kind of mold that someone might be casting me in.
I remember an instance where an ExFJ was planning this big event and she was telling me what my "role" was going to be in the whole thing. I was like, "role? what if I don't even show up? then what?" She says, "You have to go! It's important. You WILL be there and this will be your role." The more that continued, I just finally said, "I'm just going to tell you flat out that I'm not coming. So you'll have to find someone else to fill the role."
She was mad and actually made a remark similar to calling me a "stick-in-the-mud". So, yeah, I think other's see us that way a lot.
Uh... Do you mean that in a good way or a bad way?