I want no bias here...

[Tilt]

Yeah, my ex used to hold here hand up and make that talking symbol when she talked to her mom and I was like...you do the same thing, just talk and talk...lol

Lol, people and their idiosyncrasies.

 

[Poki]

Lol, people and their idiosyncrasies.

Yeah, she pisses the world off alot because of them. She tried to control world with those things and she is bad at them. By world I mean most people she deals with biggest complaint I hear about her from others

 

[existence]

Do I relate? Not to the bolded. It is automatic for me to assimilate that data. You say it does not constantly happen for you. That is false for myself. It is automatic. Second nature.

You misunderstood. I never said nor implied that assimilation does not constantly happen for me. Assimilation is constantly happening, REINTERPRETATION to a new level of understanding is what does not constantly happen. The assimilation itself is second nature for me too.

Yes. This is what I described as Ti with the house analogy but it is explained in a really different way. It is like you are translating it into another dialect. Still understandable but it took a lot of effort. That is not a judgement. Not bad or good. Just an observation that I had while reading and really thinking about what you said.

Yes we speak different dialects.

The interesting thing is that in Socionics we do have equally strong Ti but in different positions. We both have it but we use it differently - I think this much you will agree on, on different use. Do consider more that such equally strong logic can still be used in different ways. This may be the missing puzzle piece.

I don't know if I do. Maybe I do, but in not the way you are explaining it. I think all pieces (information, facts) are equal. How you use those vary. So, when you use them in different ways there will naturally be a hierarchy with the pieces you choose in regards to what you are using them for.

You clearly approach logic in a different way than I do.

I really cannot agree that all facts are equal in the way you describe it. If you honestly believe that, well I find that a very weird perspective. But it does fit your Ti as demonstrative function in Socionics.

I say they are not equal because there is *always* that hierarchy for me. I'm not as "random" about it as you appear to be. It always remains there for me, when I'm in different situations this isn't what changes, only the situations change, not the fundamental understanding. (Though as I said, the understanding itself always gets built on more and more over time.)

I wasn't using that word in an MBTI context. If you re-read that may answer your question.

Can you please understand that not everyone uses every word the same way, there is more than one way to understand something.

I don't know how can you state that Ti as a Rational function does not judge information. Please explain your thinking here because I absolutely don't see how that would make logical sense so you must be using the words in some very different way from how I do it.

 

[existence]

Ok. I'm posting to hold my place. I'll come back in a week or so. Busy with work. But I would be willing to place bets that existence is an INFJ. Not an ISTP, not an ISTJ. Not a T at all. The more I think about it, re-read posts, etc. The more I am solid in that observation and I will lay my case when I come back.

Please don't take offense [MENTION=26684]existence[/MENTION] that I'm making assumptions about you - ultimately you know you but I think after my next post here maybe you will be able to see where I'm coming from.

Why would I take offense that you are trying to type me? I only take offense if you are not verifying assumptions that are unfairly assumed. Such as the troll idea.

Thanks for the input but I disagree on INFJ. That's one of the options I most clearly eliminated already as I have low Fe. The only ones not eliminated are ISTP and ISTJ and unfortunately it looks like I would have to put up with too many different interpretations on MBTI if I were to stick with any one of these options.

The solution without going into details right now - but I'm perfectly willing to do so if you want me to - is a compromise as far as I'm willing to stay with MBTI. Dichotomy-wise, I would be ISTJ. Function-wise I would be Ti-dom with S aux - with some Ni going on as well, yes.

I am ok with you laying out your reasoning though. I'm always willing to hear other people's thoughts. So yeah, when you are back, do go into detail. I'm especially interested in where you see strong Fe in me.

Tertiary Ti (IXFJ): I am interested in learning how to make things run more smoothly and efficiently. Please be as clear and concise in your explanation as possible, so the message isn’t lost in theatricality. I’m sorry, but I see a logical inconsistency in the statement you just made; may I point it out to you so we can talk about it? I really love thinking about my ideas (Ni) and experiences (Si), and analyzing them to see what meaning they hold for me, and why. I’m good at putting a name to what is happening around me.

Where do you see me asking that messages shouldn't be lost in theatricality?

Yes, I do like clear precise explanations but that is not specific to tertiary Ti. Here in the thread I'm asking for data that I will then process myself and I'm also asking others to share their opinions but I will decide myself on what I think in the end. I do also note logical inconsistencies, again not specific to tertiary Ti.

Where do you see me discussing meaning in that fashion, honestly?

The questions are rhetorical questions if that's not clear.


To go into more details, bolding the parts where I relate to different versions of Ti and Ni:

Ti dom:

I don’t need to use my emotions to fix this problem, thanks. I know how this machine works. Let me take it apart and put it back together for you. That doesn’t seem logical. The facts of the situation are unimportant; we can solve this, though it might seem impossible. There is a way around every problem. I can give you a two word answer to your question, and those two words will solve everything. The fewer words used, the better. Most explanations are too long-winded and technical, and could easily be simplified. Let me hear the idea or new data; I’m going to analyze and criticize it, and if it doesn’t work, I’m going to throw it out. Come on, you know my impartiality is sexy. Have you ever seen me overreact to anything? No!

Ti aux:

Auxiliary Ti (EXTP): Hmm, give me a second… okay, I know what to do. I know how this works and how to fix it. I just analyzed it from six different angles in my head and feel comfortable with diving right in. I can take this situation or problem apart and reassemble it. That sounds illogical, so I’m going to ignore it. If I have time, I’ll argue with it. Look, cut the crap and get to the point. THIS is the problem and THIS is how we fix it. Did you enjoy my three word answer? It really annoys me when people take too long to explain something, because it’s easy for me to sum it up in a few words. No, I understand the system, I have it, let’s start in on it and get things done! Hop to it! Chop chop!

Ti tert:

I am interested in learning how to make things run more smoothly and efficiently. Please be as clear and concise in your explanation as possible, so the message isn’t lost in theatricality. I’m sorry, but I see a logical inconsistency in the statement you just made; may I point it out to you so we can talk about it? I really love thinking about my ideas (Ni) and experiences (Si), and analyzing them to see what meaning they hold for me, and why. I’m good at putting a name to what is happening around me.

Ni dom:

No, I haven’t learned this before. I just know how to do it*, that’s all. Let me guess what that means… am I right? Yes! I knew it! You can’t ask me to stop thinking about the future; I think about it all the time! That person is going to do that, and this will happen as a result. I am not wrong. You wait and see. (Told you!) I don’t like this, it didn’t happen the way I anticipated it would! No, I don’t want to change my plan at the last minute! How can I fix this? Where did I go wrong? I have a creative way to explain this process to you! Interpreting symbolism comes easily to me. Visualizing my goals, and my future, makes me happy and energizes me! I can see where I want to be, and where I am, and come up with each step necessary to reach my dreams.

Ni tert:

I love the silence. It allows me to think about my future, and what I want to accomplish. I like to come up with new ways of doing or seeing things. Don’t tell anyone, but I like symbolism, archetypes, and mysteries. I find them interesting. I sometimes feel like I know what is going to happen, before it happens… and I’m usually right. I don’t know how I knew that about you; I just did. I can visualize a goal, and won’t stop until I turn it into a reality. I trust my insights more in my creativity than in life, but am learning to use my random moments of foreknowledge to create long-term goals.

*: Is only true if it's logical as well.

 

[Poki]

You misunderstood. I never said nor implied that assimilation does not constantly happen for me. Assimilation is constantly happening, REINTERPRETATION to a new level of understanding is what does not constantly happen.




Yes we speak different dialects.

The interesting thing is that in Socionics we do have equally strong Ti but in different positions.




You clearly approach logic in a different way than I do.

I really cannot agree that all facts are equal. If you honestly believe that, well I find that a very weird perspective. But it does fit your Ti as demonstrative function in Socionics.




Can you please understand that not everyone uses every word the same way, there is more than one way to understand something.

I don't know how can you state that Ti as a Rational function does not judge information. Please explain your thinking here because I absolutely don't see how that would make logical sense so you must be using the words in some very different way from how I do it.

Ti in my opinion processes information. It is judged in a way, but the judging is more of a processing. It's more of a reasoning function. I read somewhere that it starts at theory, looks to facts, and ends at theory. The facts are not really that important in the grand scheme of things.

 

[existence]

Ti in my opinion processes information. It is judged in a way, but the judging is more of a processing. It's more of a reasoning function. I read somewhere that it starts at theory, looks to facts, and ends at theory. The facts are not really that important in the grand scheme of things.

You read that at Jung.

Yes, it's judged in that way. It reasons and makes logical judgments as such.

I have no idea what you two mean by "judging" otherwise, define what you mean by that because clearly our thinking is completely different here.

I will answer the earlier posts of yours later, have to go.

 

[Poki]

You read that at Jung.

Yes, it's judged in that way. It reasons and makes logical judgments as such.

I have no idea what you two mean by "judging" otherwise, define what you mean by that because clearly our thinking is completely different here.

I will answer the earlier posts of yours later, have to go.

Judging is frequently tied to judgmental and opinionated. Ti is neither judgemental or opinionated. It really is an almost constant thought that just runs and runs. It's almost like no idea is tossed out. It just processes and really sees all possibilities and doesn't really eliminate anything. All those ideas stay put and everything is compared against it to find what fits. For example I have a very good mapping of people like yourself. But I don't have the tie into MBTI because I don't really try to type people generally. They just fall into place based on overall impression not specific facts. I really think we need an additional letter or something to really break types up just a bit more...almost like a piano has a sharp and flat. B sharp is the same as C flat...if there is a c flat. I forget which keys are missing sharps and flats.

 

[violet_crown]

There's 247 posts on a "type me" thread for someone who seemed to have been correctly typed within the first ten posts...

Can someone TL;DR me on whether there was some interesting drama somewhere in here that I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Poki]

There's 247 posts on a "type me" thread for someone who seemed to have been correctly typed within the first ten posts...

Can someone TL;DR me on whether there was some interesting drama somewhere in here that I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance!

Nope, just good old boring analysis of things that doesn't match...lol. she wants more analysis and understanding then the basic same old same ol.

 

[violet_crown]

Nope, just good old boring analysis of things that doesn't match...lol. she wants more analysis and understanding then the basic same old same ol.

Oh.

Well, OP is a introverted Ti/Fe user with a preference for Ni/Se.

They're either ISTP or INFJ. They seem to be a head type (5w6 or 6w5) so if they lean more 5, then they're probably ISTP and if they lean more 6 probably INFJ.

Alright, well, I'll let y'all get back to it then.

 

[existence]

There's 247 posts on a "type me" thread for someone who seemed to have been correctly typed within the first ten posts...

Can someone TL;DR me on whether there was some interesting drama somewhere in here that I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance!

No. Just the ISTPs don't really think I'm like an ISTP.

So that's what was a conundrum until now but I understand it now.

 

[existence]

Nope, just good old boring analysis of things that doesn't match...lol. she wants more analysis and understanding then the basic same old same ol.

It's not the same old for me now.

Oh.

Well, OP is a introverted Ti/Fe user with a preference for Ni/Se.

They're either ISTP or INFJ. They seem to be a head type (5w6 or 6w5) so if they lean more 5, then they're probably ISTP and if they lean more 6 probably INFJ.

Alright, well, I'll let y'all get back to it then.

Let's not mix enneagram into my typing. I do have a 5 fixation which I'm into right now, yup. But ignore that.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Existence, what is your age? Or age range if you prefer? 15-20, 20-25, 25--35, 35-50, etc..... it might help a little

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Judging is frequently tied to judgmental and opinionated. Ti is neither judgemental or opinionated. It really is an almost constant thought that just runs and runs. It's almost like no idea is tossed out. It just processes and really sees all possibilities and doesn't really eliminate anything. All those ideas stay put and everything is compared against it to find what fits. For example I have a very good mapping of people like yourself. But I don't have the tie into MBTI because I don't really try to type people generally. They just fall into place based on overall impression not specific facts. I really think we need an additional letter or something to really break types up just a bit more...almost like a piano has a sharp and flat. B sharp is the same as C flat...if there is a c flat. I forget which keys are missing sharps and flats.

[MENTION=26684]existence[/MENTION] remember when I said Ti was neutral? This is saying the same thing. Poki is saying the same thing I was. This is key to being Ti dom and and I'll come back to it in more detail later but it is why I don't see you as Ti dom at all. This is a sticking point that you cannot get around.

We are speaking the same language but we are mirroring each other's Ti/Ni in this thread. Hence, the different dialect. Which is causing that sense of something ain't right for me and causing your continued and rigorous examination. You aren't in a Ti-Ni loop. You are in an Ni-Ti loop.

When I spoke about Ni - you countered me in a way that I didn't understand. You said it was natural for you. Yes! Same how I was talking about Ti. It is your dom function - effortless.

I notice my Ni. You don't. You notice your Ti. I don't notice mine.

Ack. I'll be able to quote you where I am pulling this from but like I said, that will take time i dont have now.

 

[existence]

Judging is frequently tied to judgmental and opinionated. Ti is neither judgemental or opinionated. It really is an almost constant thought that just runs and runs. It's almost like no idea is tossed out. It just processes and really sees all possibilities and doesn't really eliminate anything. All those ideas stay put and everything is compared against it to find what fits. For example I have a very good mapping of people like yourself. But I don't have the tie into MBTI because I don't really try to type people generally. They just fall into place based on overall impression not specific facts. I really think we need an additional letter or something to really break types up just a bit more...almost like a piano has a sharp and flat. B sharp is the same as C flat...if there is a c flat. I forget which keys are missing sharps and flats.

OK I see now what you meant - I do work differently and that's why I'm not going to relate to you as MBTI ISTP, if you and [MENTION=5223]MDP2525[/MENTION] are the typical ISTP, I'm not going to fit that type.

I do always end up at seeing what you mean, ending up on the same page, but I have the sense that we get to the conclusions in a different way. Not that this is a problem.

So I work differently yes. I'm not judgmental of people in a moral sense - all people are equal in a logical sense. I do however judge ideas and eliminate the incorrect ones that do not fit in the logical framework that I've set up. So in that sense yes I'm more judging than you are. And I'm comfortable that way, it's natural to me and always been so. I do make comparisons like you said though, but I make the comparisons on concrete data. What do you mean by possibilities? The possible ways something can logically follow?

I noticed you do have a mapping of people like me, yeah, your observations about me have been pretty spot on.

I agree MBTI isn't very good as it is.

 

[existence]

[MENTION=26684]existence[/MENTION] remember when I said Ti was neutral? This is saying the same thing. Poki is saying the same thing I was. This is key to being Ti dom and and I'll come back to it in more detail later but it is why I don't see you as Ti dom at all. This is a sticking point that you cannot get around.

See my reply just above. I'll add more. I'm not judgmental of people so in that sense I have the logical neutrality. I don't see why if we introvert Thinking, it must stop judging and keep everything "as is". That to me sounds like a jungian Irrational function, not a Rational function in the jungian sense, which is what Ti is.

 

[existence]

Existence, what is your age? Or age range if you prefer? 15-20, 20-25, 25--35, 35-50, etc..... it might help a little

The third one.

Do you see Fe in me? Or Ni?

 

[Poki]

OK I see now what you meant - I do work differently and that's why I'm not going to relate to you as MBTI ISTP, if you and [MENTION=5223]MDP2525[/MENTION] are the typical ISTP, I'm not going to fit that type.

I do always end up at seeing what you mean, ending up on the same page, but I have the sense that we get to the conclusions in a different way. Not that this is a problem.

So I work differently yes. I'm not judgmental of people in a moral sense - all people are equal in a logical sense. I do however judge ideas and eliminate the incorrect ones that do not fit in the logical framework that I've set up. So in that sense yes I'm more judging than you are. And I'm comfortable that way, it's natural to me and always been so. I do make comparisons like you said though, but I make the comparisons on concrete data. What do you mean by possibilities? The possible ways something can logically follow?

I noticed you do have a mapping of people like me, yeah, your observations about me have been pretty spot on.

I agree MBTI isn't very good as it is.

I don't think you are dom Ti because you have limited your framework so much by simple judgment of logic as valid or invalid alone. Anything is possible...the question is if it's worth it. Ti is WAY more then just that. We search for truths which means no stone is left unturned and when it is unturned it is not deemed as invalid. It's almost like it's tracked, categorized, logged, and noted to possibly come back later. All that categorization, logging, etc. I really don't understand how all that works. I just know it's there somewhere because it appears as I need it to process.

I have done some really illogical stuff because you know what...you never really do know everything nor can you dismiss anything that is not logically probable. Because improbability happens day in and day out everywher.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

The third one.

Do you see Fe in me? Or Ni?

Everyone sees it, lol. You struggle and struggle for meaning. As our ISTPs have pointed out, they just get to work.

Fe is about the search for meaning in everything. Ti is about true/false. You want understanding and meaning, you want closure, you want structure.

As to the age, the tert function starts coming more on line as we age. And we often have a battle between our dom and inf in young adulthood.

At 25, I tested on the official MBTI as a ISTP. I had so tried to reject Fe that I pushed out into my shadow, even as I lived as a ENFJ. I couldn't recognize myself. I thought I was just a superior coldly rational and logical thinker. But I used Fe constantly, just not consciously. It took me 20 more years to accept the truth.

Accepting who you are is a huge step......

 

[existence]

I don't think you are dom Ti because you have limited your framework so much by simple judgment of logic as valid or invalid alone. Anything is possible...the question is if it's worth it. Ti is WAY more then just that. We search for truths which means no stone is left unturned and when it is unturned it is not deemed as invalid. It's almost like it's tracked, categorized, logged, and noted to possibly come back later. All that categorization, logging, etc. I really don't understand how all that works. I just know it's there somewhere because it appears as I need it to process.

I have done some really illogical stuff because you know what...you never really do know everything nor can you dismiss anything that is not logically probable. Because improbability happens day in and day out everywher.

No, the judgments I make are not as simple as me randomly claiming "valid" or "invalid", they are the result of processing data and seeing if it all adds up or not and if yes why and if not why not. So yes obviously Ti is way more than that. You earlier noted that I turn every stone. Remember? I do that indeed, and yes I categorize but also do more than just categorizing, I check how it adds up with all the rest of the understanding I have. That's how I'm able to say "no, this is not correct" or "yes that's correct".

I find it interesting how you say you don't really understand the process and you just know it's there somewhere. For me it's more conscious, always ready to be pulled up at will. It does have an automatic part to speed up processing, of course, but I have a conscious handle on the whole thing.