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Hand Gestures

Tilt

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This takes this thread to a whole new level of woke. *laughs*



This reminds me of a conversation with a friend.
Me: so the ok sign is now a sign of white power
Friend: But hey, masturbation is still legal so...
Me: What???
Friend: we still have the right to masturbate ... It kinda looks like the hand position for masturbation.
Me: Now I get it. Ha

*Mind blown*
 

Sacrophagus

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This reminds me of a conversation with a friend.
Me: so the ok sign is now a sign of white power
Friend: But hey, masturbation is still legal so...
Me: What???
Friend: we still have the right to masturbate ... It kinda looks like the hand position for masturbation.
Me: Now I get it. Ha

*Mind blown*

Not if you use your left hand and your pinky. Gotta modify things around in this politically correct society.
 

Coriolis

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First of all I would argue that the Third Reich is much harder to ignore than a bunch of 4Chan losers on the internet. I agree that some battles for symbols are hopelessly lost, but I wouldn't want to grant those white supremacists that much power.
Also *pushes glasses up nose* the swastika in its original meaning isn't gone. I have seen it widely used in India. As far as I know it is still an important symbol in Hinduism. For example, I saw it as a blessing next to the front door of a farmers family home.
I should have added that to my original post. I have seen swastikas in modern usage to symbolize their original meaning, too, for example in sidewalk chalk art kids made in a friend's neighborhood. There are many Indian families in that neithborhood, and the chalk art was related to an upcoming festival. Imagine if someone more ignorant had made a stink about that family being racist.
 

anticlimatic

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48y9ov.jpg
 

Jaguar

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There's a donut shop down the street from me that's been there for generations, and their sign has a picture of a happy-looking chef giving the okay sign. Somehow it's never been a problem. :shrug:

But this is 2020, so I suppose it's only a matter of time before Antifa burns the place down. :coffee:

Donutgate.
 

Jonny

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I'm not sure if any thoughtful, compassionate person would view someone's OK sign as offensive outside of a very narrow set of contexts. Probably the same sort of people who would be offended by someone saying "Merry Christmas" during the winder holiday season.

In today's climate it doesn't hurt to ask for clarification if you're uncertain, or to gather additional information if you suspect someone is dog-whistling. Direct confrontation/accusation is rarely the best approach, however, unless you already have sufficient evidence.



Who doesn't love a good ice cream sundae? Left-wing radicals, that's who...

flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.u1.jpg
 

Mind Maverick

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I think people should calm the fuck down, and not let a group of people appropriate everything harmless. As well as not be offended by things actual white supremists use. I never got rhe mindset of abandoning things once a bad person used it. Isn't that literally giving them power over you? What will you do when they appropriate the peace sign, or waving hello? Ridiculous weakness is all it is.
I can't say I agree with this. I think that definitions tend to change over time in some cases, but in this case it's not that far along (and hopefully won't go further). Being gay was once seen as bad too, and the rainbow (once symbolizing / also still symbolizing God's promises) now predominantly symbolizes homosexuality. The same thing happens with words. Gay used to mean happy, a faggot used to be a bundle of sticks. I don't think it's weakness at all, but language and symbols changing over time. However, the OK hand to white supremacy is a horrible change and it should be fought against, not given over.

@ThisName I think this is also related to your post.

So, when any random conservative/hate group decides to use a certain innocent symbol, everyone has to stop using it? We just 'donate' a peaceful symbol to people who spew hate?


If homophobes decide today that the rainbow flag is now a symbol for homosexual genocide (or whatever) I'll continue to use it anyway. It's not their sign and it never will be. Same for the 'ok' hand gesture. Hate groups can back off and should be punished for being a hate group in the first place.
During previous times, homosexuality was considered negative just like white supremacy is now (though there won't be a fight for widespread acceptance of it like there has been for gays). From the point of view of old times though, this symbol arose while carrying a negative meaning in the past. From God's promises to homosexuality - in the old fashioned world views, it's quite comparable to the OK hand being taken over by white supremacists.
 

ceecee

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I can't say I agree with this. I think that definitions tend to change over time in some cases, but in this case it's not that far along (and hopefully won't go further). Being gay was once seen as bad too, and the rainbow (once symbolizing / also still symbolizing God's promises) now predominantly symbolizes homosexuality. The same thing happens with words. Gay used to mean happy, a faggot used to be a bundle of sticks. I don't think it's weakness at all, but language and symbols changing over time. However, the OK hand to white supremacy is a horrible change and it should be fought against, not given over.

@ThisName I think this is also related to your post.


During previous times, homosexuality was considered negative just like white supremacy is now (though there won't be a fight for widespread acceptance of it like there has been for gays). From the point of view of old times though, this symbol arose while carrying a negative meaning in the past. From God's promises to homosexuality - in the old fashioned world views, it's quite comparable to the OK hand being taken over by white supremacists.

I agree. Why should we give anything to white supremacists? They are human dumpsters, they deserve nothing from society but I do see their apologist is trying to convince this thread that they're fine people.
 

SD45T-2

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I grew up Buddhist. Some statues in houses have Buddhist deities with swastikas, or what I knew as 萬字 (wànzì) on them. It was also my first exposure to Swastikas. It is normally interpret in its traditional/religious meaning- there was never a, "Oh, but the Western world sees it as..." (imagine me having world history as a student in school and initially wondering why the heck Germans were 'Buddhists', by mistake). There are Buddhist denominations out there whose priests use the symbol on their robes.

I don't know if 'rehabilitate' would be the right word if it was never truly 'ruined' or lost for a certain culture / group / religion, especially ones with actual ties where the symbol originated from.



Most importantly- I hope that this can tie a parallel to the OK hand sign / symbol- this (the swastika) is an example of a symbol widely bastardized, but never abandoned by its real users and still possessing its original meaning.
When the 45th Infantry Division was formed in 1923 it consisted of National Guard units from the southwest, so they went with something Native American for their insignia:



By the late '30s they decided they needed to change and had a Kiowa artist from Oklahoma design the replacement:



Besides, the Finnish military was already making things confusing enough:



Three different factions using it simultaneously would have been overkill. :D :doh:
 

Earl Grey

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When the 45th Infantry Division was formed in 1923 it consisted of National Guard units from the southwest, so they went with something Native American for their insignia:

Three different factions using it simultaneously would have been overkill. :D :doh:

Wow. I have never seen these before. I'm surprised that most of the western world seems to be more familiar with the Asians' swastika than the one originating from the land they live in or places geographically closer, that they've personally used before no less. I wonder how that happened- that I hear mentions of the Buddhist swastika being 'stolen by Hitler', but not much the Hindu's, or whatever other religion or culture it is. I don't know the historical roots beyond what I know about the Chinese/Buddhist version, it seems almost like a funny international coincidence.

33419252_1538457443495868_r.jpeg


Besides, depending on where you are on Asia, they look different- apparently the one used in Hinduism is also different from the one used in Buddhism. The meanings are subtly different, too. Makes me wonder what the meanings were in other countries/cultures. Hitler's reach was devastating enough that symbolism related to what he used became twisted, though it still retained its original meaning and usage far away (in Asia, afaik. Who knows there's more).
 

SD45T-2

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Wow. I have never seen these before. I'm surprised that most of the western world seems to be more familiar with the Asians' swastika than the one originating from the land they live in or places geographically closer, that they've personally used before no less. I wonder how that happened- that I hear mentions of the Buddhist swastika being 'stolen by Hitler', but not much the Hindu's, or whatever other religion or culture it is. I don't know the historical roots beyond what I know about the Chinese/Buddhist version, it seems almost like a funny international coincidence.

33419252_1538457443495868_r.jpeg


Besides, depending on where you are on Asia, they look different- apparently the one used in Hinduism is also different from the one used in Buddhism. The meanings are subtly different, too. Makes me wonder what the meanings were in other countries/cultures. Hitler's reach was devastating enough that symbolism related to what he used became twisted, though it still retained its original meaning and usage far away (in Asia, afaik. Who knows there's more).
IIRC in the Native American context it means good luck, at least for certain tribes. :thinking:

As for the 45th Infantry Division, after transitioning to the thunderbird insignia they got sent overseas in '43 and amassed 500+ days of combat fighting the Germans. But I'm not sure what the backstory is about Finland using it. :shrug:
 

ceecee

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But I'm not sure what the backstory is about Finland using it. :shrug:

The hakaristi is a left facing swastika but the Finnish military using it predates the Nazis by a long time. I believe they still use it on their insignia for the Finnish AF. But I can't fault an American for not knowing this - I didn't know it until I went to Finland.

But you have to be an obtuse fuckhead to not understand who the people are still using the Nazi swastaka as a Nazi swastaka, anywhere in the world. They are the same type of people with the same ideology of white supremacy, genocide and hate and Buddhist using the symbol of Buddha on their clothing or home is not the same.
 

Sacrophagus

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I like how people think they can appropriate the meaning of a word, a symbol, or an act, and pretend it is ubiquitous. It gives me more faces to punch.
 

Coriolis

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IIRC in the Native American context it means good luck, at least for certain tribes. :thinking:
I am familiar with this usage, too. In the National Air and Space Museum at the Smithsonian, there is a mannequin dressed in a pilot's outfit from the 1920's, complete with a swastika pin for good luck. I think that usage was Native American in origin.
 

SD45T-2

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I am familiar with this usage, too. In the National Air and Space Museum at the Smithsonian, there is a mannequin dressed in a pilot's outfit from the 1920's, complete with a swastika pin for good luck. I think that usage was Native American in origin.
I've heard that early highway signs in Arizona had them, along with maps. Which (understandably) can come as a surprise to people today looking at historic photos and maps. I'm not sure when Arizona dropped it, but I would imagine at least by the '30s.
 

Luminous

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And now it looks like the new user has left the forum.
 
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