I think it really is Se, Synbarch had a post along those lines but now I can't find it anymore. All the ENTPs quiried picked up on Se given the descriptions but list it as fourth. My ENTP buddy says she used it to hide from having to face the Fe. She would distract herself by throwing herself into an activity fully as to not have to face the unfamiliar, weird emotions. It was an avoidance tactic. However the best parties involve mixing a few estps with a herd of entps.
I dont know what an ENFP would use , assuming there is symmetry present. Se is so outside of my world. I dont get it at all.
Hmm, yea, what I was referring to doesn't apply to that. I was thinking more along the lines of serious and detrimental situations/conditions which would eventually cur the Inferior into action. I'm guessing the Inferior is probably the furthest from consciousness.
Can you perhaps think if you hide away from things that's required of your Te by ignoring it? Or… acting out against it seems slightly more understandable due to Fi. Do you get busy by attacking your environment during such moments to relieve how you feel? I see it like this for ENTPs, Ti has no way of creating an analysis of what’s being asked of them while Fe absolves its interest of others' so that the ENTP tries to ignore it by becoming busy through Se. ENFPs’ Fi has no way of connecting to analyse and do the same of what’s asked of them so Te refuses to cooperate to the demands of others’ and through Se the ENFP busies themselves by attacking the environment around them. Ti pretends to work through Se, Fi pretends to work itself out through Se. Does that seem conceivable?
Why must these unusual functional orders necessarily be classified as "illnesses" or otherwise abnormal/incorrect? What if someone's natural functional order is, say, Ne Fe Te Ti? I don't understand where you get the assumption that this is necessarily related to repressed or otherwise deficient functions for a given type. I remember JF saying that he identified about equally well with Ne, Ni, Te and Ti, for instance.
The functions themselves aren't being classified as illnesses. It's due to our forced awareness upon such functions outside of our conscious control which manifests illness within us-- within our psyche. There is no functional "order" but, as I said, we gravitate towards the first two which are most conscious for us with the third for relief for the Dom or resistance against the Aux. We oscillate between all functions, strengthening whichever is necessary.
And well, think about it. When you're not able to rely on (with your Aux) what supports your natural way of orienting within the world (with your Dom), you aren't gathering the necessary information (for your Dom).
JF as in Jack Flak, eh? He has his own thread, necro him there. lol There's nothing wrong with identifying with the other functions but you don't rely on them like you would with the first two. Anyhoo, he had ideas regarding functions and type that didn't jive well with most people.
I'm thinking how to better answer this but has it become a bit more understandable?
Anyone else who cares to take a stab, have at this.
But-in the instance of a personality disorder (theory 2), you can't just tell them to strengthen Ti or Fi in this case as you just make the problem worse. For NPD, you can't say go practice using Ti as they already think Ti is the total shit -in an "alter ego "sort of way I guess. They are terrified to let others challenge Ti, but does using it more fix that problem at all? Then they use the over strengthened Fe to disarm others and manipulate them so that the Ti is not attacked-even if the attack was imaginary.
Instead Ti needs to be strengthened but also balanced somehow????
Why would Ji think its the shit? Ji is self-deceiving at that point, as that's where the insecurity lies with. For ENTPs, it's their Fe where the fear reacts through because others are not giving them the appreciation they think is warranted of their ideas (of Ti)--so they reciprocate against people with Fe. Charm to disarm; Fe manipulates to whittle the other's Ti. "It's not Ti's fault." It never is... But once they refocus Ti, they will become rational and impartial again, observing their flawed ideas and correcting them instead of just reacting poorly with Fe rejecting the slights (real or imagined).
ENFPs' Te is where the fears reacts through because others are not giving them the respect they think is warranted of their feelings (of Fi) -- so they reciprocate against people with Te. Blaze to amaze; Te asserts to overwhelm the other's Fi. "It's not Fi's fault." It never is... But once they refocus Fi, they will become rational and fair again, observing their flawed ideas and correcting them instead of just reacting poorly with Te rejecting the slights (real or imagined).
The only difference b/w them and NPD/BPD is that, I suspect, ENTPs are well aware of what they're doing whilst ENFPs are not. In that, ENTPs know they're manipulating their audience because they mean to while ENFPs aren't aware they're being domineering towards people because they don't mean to. Although, with BPD one can become aware after a time but that doesn't necessarily help but sometimes makes it worse because they'll just keep reaching out instead of reaching within.
You said something interesting here:
happy puppy said:They are very insecure about the secondary function and are very hypersensitive to either emotional (Fi) or intellectual (Ti) criticism.
So would not better development remove the hypersensitivity to perceived slights against their Ji and poor reaction through their Je, hmm?
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