SolitaryWalker
Tenured roisterer
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2007
- Messages
- 3,504
- MBTI Type
- INTP
- Enneagram
- 5w6
- Instinctual Variant
- so/sx
MBTI and Keirseyan folk typological profiles have been a significant boost of self-esteem for most of our youthful members. INTPs, INTJs, ENTJs and ENTPs are known as the rationals! If you are a 'logical', 'rational' person who is extremely 'intelligent' you are indubitably one of those types. If you do very well on an internet IQ test, you better type yourself as an NT! If you get good grades, did well on your ACT/GRE/LSAT, Goddamnit you're an NT because high scores on those tests are correlated with IQ tests which are infallible indicators of how smart one is and to be smart and to be an NT undoubtedly mean the same thing!
NFs are the idealists! If you are a compassionate visionary who is just like Mother Theresa, Jesus Christ and Buddha who selflessly devotes oneself to the service of others, you are definitely an Idealist type! In fact, if you score an NF on your test, it goddamn means that you're as magnanimous as Buddha, Ghandi and Jesus!
Those posts are based on nothing but Keirsey's foundationless speculation who published a two volume book not in psychology, but in self-help mysticism. Surely we may observe the traits he is describing in some people, but they are greatly exaggerated and he made an untenable assumption that because some people have the personality qualities in question, all people who are somewhat similar to such individual do have them also. For example, Albert Einstein was an INTP who was very aloof, extremely intelligent and unkempt. John Smith, 19, devoted member of INTP Central with 30,000 posts is unkempt and aloof, therefore he is extremely intelligent!
Lets try and use Keirsey's methodology to contribute to his list of 'INTP' personality categories. To protect myself from the charge of using type-bashing to demean large-groups of persons, I'll pick on a type that I've claimed to be a member of for a long time.
You know you're an INTP when...
-Your IQ is 160 yet 90% of your forum posts are one-liners and you haven't read a book in over two years.
-You received poor grades or flunked out college, yet you are extremely intelligent and your MENSA membership attests to this fact.
-You've never had a full time job and have been fired from most of your menial labor positions; you attribute this to the inherent stupidity of your co-workers and supervisors who failed to understand your more 'rational, superior way of 'doing things''.
-You cite your INTPness as an excuse for not being able to hold down a job, get the grades in college or maintain relationships; after all Einstein was an INTP who did not do well in conventional structured educational and work environments, his idiosyncratic personality also caused him problems in relationships. You proudly exclaim that the same could be said for many other great minds of history such as Newton and Leibnitz, who of course, were INTPs through and through just like yourself.
-When someone challenges your views on the forum, you post 'LOL, TL;DR, SENSOR! INTJ!' or ignore them altogether. Sometimes you might deluge the critic with countless links that are only somewhat relevant to the discourse.
-You have over 10,000 posts on INTPc and are a proud member of the High-IQ subforum.
-David Keirsey is your favorite psychologist and you become irate when someone suggests that Einstein was not an INTP.
-You regard Chris Lagnan as a paragon of intelligence.
-Metaphysical speculations fascinate you and when you aspire to support a conclusion of yours, you embark upon an extremely abstract thought-experiment that borders on unintelligible. Most of the time you are unsure yourself of what you're talking about.
-When someone asks you to explain your views further, you deluge the audience with technical jargon, lengthy words and appeals to dated, controversial and often irrelevant theories in the sciences or philosophy.
-You see yourself as impeccably 'logical' and when you criticize the input of someone else your response features only one word, 'illogical'.
-You're always prepared to enter a 'debate' on virtually any topic and consider yourself extremely knowledgeable about a wide range of issues. You proudly quote Paul James's characterization of INTPs as 'jacks of all trades'.
-Most of your conversational contributions contradict the views of another person, you're eager to disagree with them even if you can offer no substantial criticism of their position.
-You believe that INTPs are superior to all types and praise Ayn Rand's works for offering you opportunities to become well aware of this fact.
-You see yourself as a non-conformist, extremely autonomous and independently minded. The idea of INTPs engaging in 'SJ-like' behavior makes you indignant and you disregared the thoughts of any critic who points out that INTPs display herd-mentality on INTPc.
Social psychologist Robert Cialdini argued that most people are inclined to imitate persons who are similar to them rather than those who are different. For example, a student who is negligent will not want to imitate a straight-A student who sits in the front of the room, but will be much more inclined to imitate another slob who sleeps in class right next to him.
"We frequently think of teenagers as rebellious and independent-minded. It is important to recognize, however, that typically that is true only with respect to their parents. Among similar others, they conform massively to what social proof tells them is proper." (Cialdini, Science and Practice P.123)
Replace teenagers with INTPs and their parents with 'conventional people' and you have a model of a judicious assessment.
We frequently think of INTPs as rebellious and independent-minded. It is important to recognize, however, that typically that is true only with respect to conventional people. Among similar others, they conform massively to what social proof tells them is proper.
NFs are the idealists! If you are a compassionate visionary who is just like Mother Theresa, Jesus Christ and Buddha who selflessly devotes oneself to the service of others, you are definitely an Idealist type! In fact, if you score an NF on your test, it goddamn means that you're as magnanimous as Buddha, Ghandi and Jesus!
Those posts are based on nothing but Keirsey's foundationless speculation who published a two volume book not in psychology, but in self-help mysticism. Surely we may observe the traits he is describing in some people, but they are greatly exaggerated and he made an untenable assumption that because some people have the personality qualities in question, all people who are somewhat similar to such individual do have them also. For example, Albert Einstein was an INTP who was very aloof, extremely intelligent and unkempt. John Smith, 19, devoted member of INTP Central with 30,000 posts is unkempt and aloof, therefore he is extremely intelligent!
Lets try and use Keirsey's methodology to contribute to his list of 'INTP' personality categories. To protect myself from the charge of using type-bashing to demean large-groups of persons, I'll pick on a type that I've claimed to be a member of for a long time.
You know you're an INTP when...
-Your IQ is 160 yet 90% of your forum posts are one-liners and you haven't read a book in over two years.
-You received poor grades or flunked out college, yet you are extremely intelligent and your MENSA membership attests to this fact.
-You've never had a full time job and have been fired from most of your menial labor positions; you attribute this to the inherent stupidity of your co-workers and supervisors who failed to understand your more 'rational, superior way of 'doing things''.
-You cite your INTPness as an excuse for not being able to hold down a job, get the grades in college or maintain relationships; after all Einstein was an INTP who did not do well in conventional structured educational and work environments, his idiosyncratic personality also caused him problems in relationships. You proudly exclaim that the same could be said for many other great minds of history such as Newton and Leibnitz, who of course, were INTPs through and through just like yourself.
-When someone challenges your views on the forum, you post 'LOL, TL;DR, SENSOR! INTJ!' or ignore them altogether. Sometimes you might deluge the critic with countless links that are only somewhat relevant to the discourse.
-You have over 10,000 posts on INTPc and are a proud member of the High-IQ subforum.
-David Keirsey is your favorite psychologist and you become irate when someone suggests that Einstein was not an INTP.
-You regard Chris Lagnan as a paragon of intelligence.
-Metaphysical speculations fascinate you and when you aspire to support a conclusion of yours, you embark upon an extremely abstract thought-experiment that borders on unintelligible. Most of the time you are unsure yourself of what you're talking about.
-When someone asks you to explain your views further, you deluge the audience with technical jargon, lengthy words and appeals to dated, controversial and often irrelevant theories in the sciences or philosophy.
-You see yourself as impeccably 'logical' and when you criticize the input of someone else your response features only one word, 'illogical'.
-You're always prepared to enter a 'debate' on virtually any topic and consider yourself extremely knowledgeable about a wide range of issues. You proudly quote Paul James's characterization of INTPs as 'jacks of all trades'.
-Most of your conversational contributions contradict the views of another person, you're eager to disagree with them even if you can offer no substantial criticism of their position.
-You believe that INTPs are superior to all types and praise Ayn Rand's works for offering you opportunities to become well aware of this fact.
-You see yourself as a non-conformist, extremely autonomous and independently minded. The idea of INTPs engaging in 'SJ-like' behavior makes you indignant and you disregared the thoughts of any critic who points out that INTPs display herd-mentality on INTPc.
Social psychologist Robert Cialdini argued that most people are inclined to imitate persons who are similar to them rather than those who are different. For example, a student who is negligent will not want to imitate a straight-A student who sits in the front of the room, but will be much more inclined to imitate another slob who sleeps in class right next to him.
"We frequently think of teenagers as rebellious and independent-minded. It is important to recognize, however, that typically that is true only with respect to their parents. Among similar others, they conform massively to what social proof tells them is proper." (Cialdini, Science and Practice P.123)
Replace teenagers with INTPs and their parents with 'conventional people' and you have a model of a judicious assessment.
We frequently think of INTPs as rebellious and independent-minded. It is important to recognize, however, that typically that is true only with respect to conventional people. Among similar others, they conform massively to what social proof tells them is proper.
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