Is this rude?
Would you feel offended or would you honestly understand the motivating factors and forgive me for being "harsh"?
Is there a better way to approach this?
I have tried being silently supportive, but that has led to a year of mooching off of me with no effort to improve.
I feel like being nice is only making things worse.
I'm not a fan of ultimatums if they are out of the blue (who am I kidding, I'm not a fan of any kind of ultimatum). What you said seems reasonable provided you've talked about the situation with that person before.
Looking to hear from both INFP's and ENFP's.
Lets say you are 18 going on 19, you have been living with an older sibling for over a year. During this time you have not been in a position to provide for yourself, which means you have been relying on this sibling for food, clothing, shelter, spending money etc. Even though this sibling has 3 children already and is struggling to make ends meet anyway.
Not only that, but for that entire year your efforts to get a job or make some kind of plan for the future has been next to non existant or minimal at best.
This older sibling cracks and tells you:
1 - You have 3 months to show an improvement in regards to trying to get a job, ie a visual change or you are out.
2 - When you get that job, you need to provide some money towards your share of things instead of relying on the sibling anymore.
3 - You have 6 months from getting the job to move out.
Is this rude?
I'm not a fan of ultimatums if they are out of the blue (who am I kidding, I'm not a fan of any kind of ultimatum). What you said seems reasonable provided you've talked about the situation with that person before.
I don`t think you`re being rude, you`re doing the both of you a favour. He will have to stand on his own feet sooner or later and you`re making it as easy as possible. From what you`ve said it seems he`s not satisfied with his current position either, but doesn`t know where/what to start working on first. So hopefully this will give him a little push in the right direction. I`m guessing he`s still searching for something he`s interested in doing, but in the meanwhile it`d be only fair of him to contribute to your household.
Try to talk to him about what he`d be interested in doing, once he has a set goal it`ll be easier to find motivation. And once he`ll start acting towards it, getting a job for the meanwhile won`t seem like a drag, and his self-esteem should be getting better at the same time. If you`ve got a job you`re happy doing tell him about it. I`m the same way, a terrible procrastinator. The times my parents corner me for a "talk" I`d act deffensive and want to end the conversation as soon as possible, but that`s because I already beat myself up because of it, it`s just that the motivation won`t bend to my will. Usually I feel better just by starting to work on/towards something. As soon as I take some small steps forward, I see the results and feel motivated to take bigger steps or devise a masterplan
I`m sure he`s aware you`re a great big sister and apreciates your support. He just needs to clear his head.
Added:
Oh and about the ultimatum. It seems reasonable but if he`s not able to meet the deadline, tell him you`re open for negotiations, provided you can see him seriously trying and somehow contributing to the household (doing chores, splitting food expenses sometimes, rent...).
Cheers
word it better
Yes. Be harsh. In this case, it's the right thing to do. Kick that fucking tert/inf Te into gear. This kid needs to grow up.
P.S. Nothing you're saying is even remotely rude or truly harsh. You're being more than reasonable. By helping him get a job you're actually coddling him. Expecting more out of him would actually be better for his self-esteem.
All of this is shocking to me, frankly. I started baby-sitting at thirteen, had a real job by sixteen, paid my own car insurance once I got a car, and when I temporarily moved back in with my mother as an adult, I was expected to contribute in some way after the first few months.
The only reason I would think you were being too harsh is if he's mentally ill or suffering from some sort of trauma where he would require excessive support.
Does he have any interest in school?
Rude? Boundaries are essential to the health of relationships and the individuals in them.
It's not supportive (well, perhaps literally) to allow someone do nothing constructive with their time while mooching off others, it's damaging.
Same here....
If you've been mostly mum about your feelings & take the approach in the OP, then it will seem like it's coming out of nowhere, with no warning and may seem "unfair" to him because of it (even if it's not unfair). You basically want to take it in steps, and slowly up the ante if he does not respond.
Do you already have open discussion about his work situation & general behavior in your home? Does he clearly know what you need from him and what you expect? Has it been stated in a way that is not just pointing out his deficit? ie., instead of saying, "You never do xyz", you could say, "I'd appreciate it if you did xyz more often." It's informing instead of accusing, and gives him the benefit of the doubt that he may have been trying at some point before.
Sometimes us NFPs think we've stated clearly what we need, but we've been so diplomatic and indirect the point has gotten lost, and the other person is honestly oblivious to our frustrations.
If you've been doing that, then great, and maybe it is time to give an ultimatum. It still may cause an argument if you word it too harshly though. What is your objective: to vent and feel better, or to actually motivate him to seriously look for work & obtain a job? Generally, criticism that has some encouragement and shows you believe in someone goes farther than just pointing out what they need to do and applying pressure.
Rude? No. Threatening? Yes.
"Dude, you have all these people skills, right? I know you do, c'mon, you're great, I've seen you with the girls, playa! So who do you reckon you can con into giving you a job? This week's challenge: walk into five different places and talk them into giving you some work."
Yeah, also it is my opinion, that in situations were I'm in control, if someone is taking advantage of me it is my own fault. If someone was given no idea of how much a certain kind of behavior pisses me off I feel very bad giving them an ultimatum. Another reason why I prize honesty so much and direct communication.
If you let people know what they can expect from the get go, you are helping them, by giving them information on how much they can count on and also you are helping yourself because you're conscience can be completely clear when it comes to dealing with whatever needs dealing with.
Is it possible he's depressed? A lot of the time, from the outside, it can look like a depressed person is just lazy and irresponsible, when really, they don't feel like they are physically or emotionally able to handle things that would normally be no problem. His lack of interest and low self-esteem are red flags. If that's the case, that could be why he doesn't care about picking up after himself or thinking about leaving cereal for the kids. I'd try to do some poking around and see if that could be the case. When you're clinically depressed and people try to "encourage/motivate" you or give you ultimatums, it's devastating, because 1) you feel like you have no support system, and 2) you don't feel like you CAN give them what they want.
If you are satisfied that he's not depressed, I think your approach is reasonable. You're his sibling, not his mother. He's not entitled to be supported.
It's not rude. At all. It's understandable. I can understand someone may get their feelings hurt by it.. but harsh stuff isn't the same as rude stuff.
I think in this case it's not what you say it's how you say it. Beyond that, I think this is necessary for both you and the sibling.
In fact, I think for an Fi dom if you couch it in terms of how concerned you are for them and how this is best for them -- when they see your genuine concern and the consideration for their feelings etc. I think that is the sugar necessary to make the medicine go down.
Good luck and let us know how it goes!
Same as, I grew up quick, was living independantly from the age of 17, so to me anyone saying my brother is young, is surprising. I always knew I was on my own.
Looking to hear from both INFP's and ENFP's.
Lets say you are 18 going on 19, you have been living with an older sibling for over a year. During this time you have not been in a position to provide for yourself, which means you have been relying on this sibling for food, clothing, shelter, spending money etc. Even though this sibling has 3 children already and is struggling to make ends meet anyway.
Not only that, but for that entire year your efforts to get a job or make some kind of plan for the future has been next to non existant or minimal at best.
This older sibling cracks and tells you:
1 - You have 3 months to show an improvement in regards to trying to get a job, ie a visual change or you are out.
2 - When you get that job, you need to provide some money towards your share of things instead of relying on the sibling anymore.
3 - You have 6 months from getting the job to move out.
Is this rude?
Would you feel offended or would you honestly understand the motivating factors and forgive me for being "harsh"?
Is there a better way to approach this?
I have tried being silently supportive, but that has led to a year of mooching off of me with no effort to improve.
I feel like being nice is only making things worse.
<snipped>
But well, it is not good when I try to analyze his situation without knowing him, so you have to know better than us how he feels and how he can deal with it. We can just say how your approach COULD get to him, and I think it is ok. The hint however that he should not think that the ultimatum comes "out of the blue" is very important.
I think it's very rude (not an NFP though!)
Honey, theres a big thing your missing here
He's not you, he does have someone-he has you.
You can still help and support him if he's not living with you, you didn't have that, but he does.
Stop with the guilt tripping yourself, he needs to fix up. There are plenty of flat shares out there, put him onto gumtree. He'll have to work and pay most of his money on rent like we did, thats life...he needs to find his own way. You can still talk to him everyday..hell you can even do his washing and take him round dinner if you want....
Stick to your guns do not give in...you need to think of a consequence if he dosn't find a job...what if he dosn't, what do you do?
Make it crystal clear...
You could give him a list of jobcentres, websites, jobfinding papers etc etc wake him up when you get up, and get him out of the house when you take the kids to school....he needs to spend his time constructively, he can come back in the afternoons...just an idea
Also could further study be an option for him, there are some new fangled yts schemes that pay a nominal amount like 30 a week to attend, they often have placements at the end. You could write up a rota of chores for him to do around the house while he's studying...that he has to stick to to earn his keep + he should give some of his money to you a nominal amount like a fiver.
It's NOT mean of you to do theese things, it's helping him. You have to teach him to respect you, your children and your household, eventually he will thank you for it.
I know it's hard, be tough.
Remember he does have someone, it's you