skylights
i love
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2010
- Messages
- 7,756
- MBTI Type
- INFP
- Enneagram
- 6w7
- Instinctual Variant
- so/sx
Fi sucks because it finds reasons to proactively hate other people. It also absorbs irrational ideas and doesn't let go because they are internalized and meld with the person's "character." So its hell to deal with for thinkers.
I think it has a lot to do with how Te presents Fi, because typically Fi users will externalize Fi, which is very hard to translate into words (just like Ni), with Te, and it comes off as harsh instead of intense, which is not an accurate translation - it's not a vocalization of "hate" so much as a vocalization of fear, pain, and anger. So a T, in particular TP, will see a crappily-logic'd external version of what inside had been a solid and reasonable feeling. For TPs, you guys interpret F with Fe, so you will tend to see our poorly-externalized negative feelings as blunt, cruel personal attacks, which they are not meant to be. TJs tend to be better at understanding the Te presentation of Fi, because they more easily see that the Te, which they are so well-versed in, is not being an adequate vehicle for the emotional nuances of Fi.
Fi is actually much softer and more mutable than I think it comes off. It can become extremely rigid when we sense injustice or pain, in the interest of protection, but once there is evidence of compassion from the other side, Fi relaxes to an incredible extent. I think it's actually fairly easy for Fi users to adjust internalized ideas / character, but we need to see it in a friendly light to be willing to expose ourselves like that. If we feel threatened or judged, we're going to lock down completely and those irrational ideas will remain untouchable from the outside.
Fi probably appears more victimised in the 'real world' by people who band together in groups. But it's hard to tell, l I find, whether grouping together to exclude someone is necessarily a product of Fe. After all if a group is built of Fi types, who is to say they would not exclude Fe because they feel it might overly structure their value system?
I think it's less about actual exclusion and more about the external operation versus internal operation. Fe users tend to tactfully place their value judgments in the open, so that others can see them, discuss them, challenge them, and improve upon them. Fi users do that with T issues, but we keep our F value judgments inside, much in the same way FJs and TPs keep their Ti reasoning inside. What happens for the Fi users in a group of FJs is that the Fi user observes the FJs put feelings out there, discuss them, influence, shift, agree, and finalize - and the Fi user is alone thinking, what the hell is going on here, because it's as if a group of people suddenly decided they were in charge of voting conclusively on something that is an individual choice. I imagine FJs and TPs feel similarly when FPs or TJs come together to discuss logical ideas. Even if the Fi user does pipe up, it's externalized through Te, and it tends to come off too abrasive for Fe, so is interpreted as attack and the Fi user is often rejected, leaving them feeling like they never had a chance to begin with. If a Fi user can learn some Fe tact, they can become much more proficient at joining the conversation.
Another problem with Fi: thinking everyone else feels the same way. Has difficulty logically understanding other functions outside its own awareness.
It's not so much that we think everyone feels the same as it is that we are aware that we don't have a very good understanding of how others operate, so we prefer to tend to our own selves for everyone's sake. The assumption is sort of like "I'll take care of me and my feelings, and I'll share them with you, so that you can understand how I work but I am not imposing myself upon you". And in response, the other person will concentrate on themselves too, and share their intrapersonal understanding as well. In that way, both people learn about one another, and they care about one another, but neither one feels imposed on by the other.
You'll often notice FP discussions in forums tend to be "Well I ____________", followed by "Oh yes something similar happened to me yesterday _________", followed by "My take on this is ________________". It's very ego-centric, it seems, but the idea is that you know what you want to share, but I don't know what you want to share, so I'll share what I feel comfortable sharing, and then you can share what you're comfortable sharing. It's understood that anyone is welcome to contribute when they feel comfortable doing so. We don't try to push our understanding of things on others when we feel like we don't have a good grasp, including other functions. We'd prefer to talk about what we know, as we assume those who are well-acquainted with the other functions will share what they know and we can learn from them.
Sometimes generates self righteous attitudes of "look how unselfish I am compared to you." Oftentimes associated with false pride. Its users are the most likely to make threads that say "Don't take MBTI so seriously, its just a tool" and "don't be so judgemental [like I am toward you]." Most likely to deflect others for its problems so it doesn't have to deal with them.
Where do you see these issues with Fi in particular? Maybe some examples? I've never really heard Fi and pride linked much before.