yeghor
Well-known member
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- Dec 21, 2013
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Thank you for the detailed response and taking the time...
I have some objections to that though as given below...
One is about emotions the other is about motives...
motive=a reason for doing something, especially one that is hidden or not obvious.
One is about expressing out emotions felt... The other is about focusing on work that is in line with the ideals and the goals to that end...
Sounds similar... INFJs are not that detached from the social conventions though...
Perfectionism and idealism...
Perfectionism, in psychology, is a personality trait characterized by a person's striving for flawlessness and setting excessively high performance standards, accompanied by overly critical self-evaluations and concerns regarding others' evaluations.
In a sociological sense, idealism emphasizes how human ideas—especially beliefs and values—shape society.
Burnout is a psychological term that refers to long-term exhaustion and diminished interest in work. It's related to too much giving without consideration for self-health...
The sensitivity or insensitivity of a human, often considered with regard to a particular kind of stimulus, is the strength of the feeling it results in, in comparison with the strength of the stimulus. The concept applies to physical as well as emotional feeling.
The former is about overexerting one's self and not letting out pent-up feelings whereas the latter is about expressing out one's feelings and being emotionally sensitive to external stimuli...
There seems to be a similarity here... I don't know if I assume the role of a teacher though... There's a difference between a teacher and a counselor or advisor in that a teacher is superior in authority to his\her students whereas a counselor or advisor is usually subordinate to or in service of (rather than in charge of) someone else... I don't know if this makes any difference...
In fours emotional nurturing is visible... in the INFJ description it says that the altruistic character of INFJs may not readily be visible... meaning that INFJs work their altruism in a somehow different and "systemmatic" rather than individualistic manner...
I've been telling that noticing and trying to dismantle people's primitive defense mechanisms (meanwhile making them feel invalidated) are INFJs' domain, whereas soothing people and making them feel validated are INFPs'...
INFJ passion is about working towards ideals, goals and causes about society, and it seems to be hidden according the excerpt... I don't know what's the origin of enneagram 4's passion but it seems it's not hidden in the default mode...It's not mentioned in the excerpt...
INFJ creativity is about solving societal problems and is systemmatic in nature whereas INFP creativity is about leaving (self) impression on other people around, i.e. about self-expression...
One is looking for an ideal partner whereas the other is looking for a partner that would allow the emergence of the ideal self...it's the reverse process..
Enneagram 4 wants uniqueness and identity... INFJ wants to know that he\she is working towards a societal goal or ideal...
I have some objections to that though as given below...
Emotionally sensitive, they can be like a psychic sponge, readily picking up the feelings and attitudes of those around them. Fours are also able to detect discrepancies between projected images and authentic feelings.
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Very insightful. INFJs find it easy to decipher other people’s motives and are rarely affected by manipulation or sales tactics. They tend to know instantly whether someone is being honest.
One is about emotions the other is about motives...
motive=a reason for doing something, especially one that is hidden or not obvious.
Motivated by the desire to connect with what is real and authentic in life, [4s] are often willing to sacrifice a great deal to make this connection. They're usually happiest when doing original work that expresses what they feel inside; they are often talented writers, painters, or actors who are not afraid to draw upon their deep emotions for creative purposes.
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INFJs may find it difficult to focus and force themselves to complete tasks that are not linked to one of their goals, e.g., some routine administrative work that must be carried out.
One is about expressing out emotions felt... The other is about focusing on work that is in line with the ideals and the goals to that end...
However, while Fours value their individuality, they many look more ruggedly individualistic than other types simply because they feel more compelled to follow the dictates of their inner muse than the dictates of social convention.
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People with this personality type are also likely to react strongly to anything that challenges their inner principles and values.
Sounds similar... INFJs are not that detached from the social conventions though...
Perfectionistic. INFJ personalities are inherently idealistic and do their best to achieve their ideals. This is a great trait, but it can quickly become a weakness if the same approach is applied in every area of life. For instance, INFJs may find it difficult to settle down in a romantic relationship, always looking for an ideal partner.
Perfectionism and idealism...
Perfectionism, in psychology, is a personality trait characterized by a person's striving for flawlessness and setting excessively high performance standards, accompanied by overly critical self-evaluations and concerns regarding others' evaluations.
In a sociological sense, idealism emphasizes how human ideas—especially beliefs and values—shape society.
Fours and Fives are both what people call "Bottom of the Enneagram" types- and are subject to the effects of the energies in that region of the enneagram. There seems to be some sort of energy vacuum or vortex existing at the bottom of the enneagram (as reflected by the lack of connecting lines there). Both Fours and Fives feel the effects of this region, which seems both chaotic and dynamic. It attunes these types to the kind of primal, creative energy that makes originality possible. But it also makes them sensitive and in need of more rest and time alone than other types.
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Can burn out easily. That strength and passion that INFJ personalities are known for can exhaust them quickly if they are not careful. INFJs also tend to internalize most of their feelings. This trait is not necessarily a weakness, but it deprives them of the “exhaust valve.â€
Burnout is a psychological term that refers to long-term exhaustion and diminished interest in work. It's related to too much giving without consideration for self-health...
The sensitivity or insensitivity of a human, often considered with regard to a particular kind of stimulus, is the strength of the feeling it results in, in comparison with the strength of the stimulus. The concept applies to physical as well as emotional feeling.
The former is about overexerting one's self and not letting out pent-up feelings whereas the latter is about expressing out one's feelings and being emotionally sensitive to external stimuli...
Fours can be especially talented at synthesizing ideas and communicating them in writing. They're often better writers than speakers, because writing can be done alone, without the distraction of the audience's emotional reaction to the speaker's presentation. When they interact with people directly, Fours often like to assume the role of teacher, because it gives them the authority to act in response to their inner promptings.
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Inspiring and convincing. People with the INFJ personality type have a way with words and are known for their fluid, inspirational writing style.
Also:
… INFJ personalities [are] excellent counselors and advisors.
There seems to be a similarity here... I don't know if I assume the role of a teacher though... There's a difference between a teacher and a counselor or advisor in that a teacher is superior in authority to his\her students whereas a counselor or advisor is usually subordinate to or in service of (rather than in charge of) someone else... I don't know if this makes any difference...
I once saw a panel of Fours queried as to their occupation. It turned out that four out of five did work requiring them to provide emotional support to people in crisis situations (for example, working in a hospice, manning suicide hot lines, or offering crisis counseling). So while Fours are not much for small talk, they can be extraordinarily attentive when listening to people with serious troubles to share.
From other 4 descriptions:
-A sensitivity to other people's emotionality and pain. An ability to support others in crisis.
-the ability to help others in pain.
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Altruistic. It is very rare to see an INFJ do something just for their personal benefit. People with this personality type tend to be very warm and altruistic, even though these traits may not be clearly visible.
In fours emotional nurturing is visible... in the INFJ description it says that the altruistic character of INFJs may not readily be visible... meaning that INFJs work their altruism in a somehow different and "systemmatic" rather than individualistic manner...
I've been telling that noticing and trying to dismantle people's primitive defense mechanisms (meanwhile making them feel invalidated) are INFJs' domain, whereas soothing people and making them feel validated are INFPs'...
Fours are usually aware that others find them too intense. They try to deal with it, but it's not easy, because they have to choose between being themselves (but potentially alienating others) and curbing their passion (which makes them more socially acceptable but creates a sense of self-alienation). This conflict can be exhausting. It may be one reason that Fours tend to shy away from social events, especially large-scale social functions. They can usually fit in if they really need to, but it's not an appealing way to pass the time.
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Added: Determined and passionate. INFJ personalities work very hard for causes they believe in.This passion can easily surprise people not used to seeing this side of the INFJ, but it is an inseparable part of their personality.
Extremely private. INFJs may appear expressive and passionate, but they are actually very private individuals. People with this personality type often find it quite difficult to trust a new friend or open up, even to people who are closest to them
INFJ passion is about working towards ideals, goals and causes about society, and it seems to be hidden according the excerpt... I don't know what's the origin of enneagram 4's passion but it seems it's not hidden in the default mode...It's not mentioned in the excerpt...
While Fours may not be particularly easy-going or light-hearted, they're seldom dull. Their creativity, originality, and intensity always leave an impression on the people around them. Also, they're one of the few types that are willing and able to deal with intense emotions, psychological traumas, and spiritual crises.
Determined and passionate. INFJ personalities work very hard for causes they believe in.
Creative. INFJs possess a vivid imagination and rarely have any difficulties expressing it in one way or another. Most of their solutions revolve around people or ideals, as opposed to technical strategies. This strength makes INFJ personalities excellent counselors and advisors.
INFJ creativity is about solving societal problems and is systemmatic in nature whereas INFP creativity is about leaving (self) impression on other people around, i.e. about self-expression...
For Fours the present seems unreal. All relating is building toward the emergence of the "real" self through the agency of love. The ultimate disclosure, the transcendent moment, the reawakening of the soul.
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INFJs may find it difficult to settle down in a romantic relationship, always looking for an ideal partner.
One is looking for an ideal partner whereas the other is looking for a partner that would allow the emergence of the ideal self...it's the reverse process..
Wants distinctive work. A job that calls for creativity, even genius, an eccentric edge in presentation, a unique approach to business life.
Must feel respected in the workplace for personal vision and ideas.
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Always need to have a cause. INFJs may find it difficult to focus and force themselves to complete tasks that are not linked to one of their goals, e.g., some routine administrative work that must be carried out. People with this personality type always want to know that they are moving toward a worthy goal and may feel disappointed and restless if this is not the case.
Enneagram 4 wants uniqueness and identity... INFJ wants to know that he\she is working towards a societal goal or ideal...