Xander
Lex Parsimoniae
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 4,463
- MBTI Type
- INTP
- Enneagram
- 9w8
Okay it looks like I have possibly two or three of these to work with now and Lori seems to have a "minion" now who is an ESTJ. As such I have been trying to study them in more depth and gauge them more fairly. Sure there is the whole stereotype of the dumb jock/ sergeant type who thinks they know best about everything but I'm remaining positive and looking for how I and others who aren't of the select "approved" kinds of people can key into the psyche of the typical ESTJ and actually gain some acceptance or even comradeship.
Anyhow I'll put up the kinds of things which I've observed, feel free to correct, advise or add on as you feel necessary. I claim no mastery of this subject and I'm going on just what I've observed, figured out and heard.
I should also note that two out of my "test" subjects are rugby players and the third is an ex martial arts tutor and is now quite old (as in high 60s, I think). All are engineers and hence know everything (I think that's more part of the engineer breed than anything inherent with ESTJs)
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It could be the sports bent of the test subject but these ESTJs seem to respond only to blunt force trauma. Subtleties are treated as a waste of time and often seem to irritate more than placate.
The sense of humour and style of address is often aggressive and there seems to be a deep seated need to establish a pecking order and not to let others gain more than they think is their "fair" share.
One thing which does seem constant is an intolerance of difference. Things which are new or deviate from what they have laid down in their head as right are targeted for attack. I have witnessed a propensity for discriminatory behaviour based on anything from race/ sex to what village the person grew up in. It seems that they have no limit on to the number of subdivisions which they can divide people into and attack based on that division's stereotypes.
Style seems oddly more important to them than I, for one, expected. The results must not just be attained but attained in a manner to which they approve or the whole thing is targeted as under their dislike of new or change.
Possessions seem rarely to truly matter for anything further than their current purpose and yet they take hours in discussing choices and possibilities. I don't know why they discuss it as they most often simply stick to their first assumption but I presume it's some "trial by fire" for the idea.
Stress seems to be some kind of motivator. It's almost like nothing can be created (or more commonly destroyed) without stressing about it. I have often been targeted myself for my seeming lack of care and stress as though I'd shown blasphemy in the face of their religion or something.
All in all I've witnessed very primitive male behaviour towards most things (I've yet to encounter an ESTJ female to my knowledge but I'm hoping that some of this converts over). I'm hoping it's only true of a small percentage but hope is in short supply with this lot!
Another thing which seems important now that I think about it is that these ESTJs and the stories of others seem to display an almost complete lack of flexibility especially in regards to confidence. Lori was describing how she was trying to teach this girl the administration system (which she herself had only been using for a week and yet was comfortable with it) and the girl seemed almost singularly incapable of adapting her previous knowledge and experience to this new system. It's not often that you have to explain what 'purchase order' means to a person applying for an administration role!!
Confidence seems the key to gaining some measure of accommodation in my experience. Picking up where they are not confident and getting things back on track without making a fuss or expecting them to "get down to your level to say thanks".
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Anyhow, your turn. I'm running out of cohesive thought.
Anyhow I'll put up the kinds of things which I've observed, feel free to correct, advise or add on as you feel necessary. I claim no mastery of this subject and I'm going on just what I've observed, figured out and heard.
I should also note that two out of my "test" subjects are rugby players and the third is an ex martial arts tutor and is now quite old (as in high 60s, I think). All are engineers and hence know everything (I think that's more part of the engineer breed than anything inherent with ESTJs)
---------------------------------------------
It could be the sports bent of the test subject but these ESTJs seem to respond only to blunt force trauma. Subtleties are treated as a waste of time and often seem to irritate more than placate.
The sense of humour and style of address is often aggressive and there seems to be a deep seated need to establish a pecking order and not to let others gain more than they think is their "fair" share.
One thing which does seem constant is an intolerance of difference. Things which are new or deviate from what they have laid down in their head as right are targeted for attack. I have witnessed a propensity for discriminatory behaviour based on anything from race/ sex to what village the person grew up in. It seems that they have no limit on to the number of subdivisions which they can divide people into and attack based on that division's stereotypes.
Style seems oddly more important to them than I, for one, expected. The results must not just be attained but attained in a manner to which they approve or the whole thing is targeted as under their dislike of new or change.
Possessions seem rarely to truly matter for anything further than their current purpose and yet they take hours in discussing choices and possibilities. I don't know why they discuss it as they most often simply stick to their first assumption but I presume it's some "trial by fire" for the idea.
Stress seems to be some kind of motivator. It's almost like nothing can be created (or more commonly destroyed) without stressing about it. I have often been targeted myself for my seeming lack of care and stress as though I'd shown blasphemy in the face of their religion or something.
All in all I've witnessed very primitive male behaviour towards most things (I've yet to encounter an ESTJ female to my knowledge but I'm hoping that some of this converts over). I'm hoping it's only true of a small percentage but hope is in short supply with this lot!
Another thing which seems important now that I think about it is that these ESTJs and the stories of others seem to display an almost complete lack of flexibility especially in regards to confidence. Lori was describing how she was trying to teach this girl the administration system (which she herself had only been using for a week and yet was comfortable with it) and the girl seemed almost singularly incapable of adapting her previous knowledge and experience to this new system. It's not often that you have to explain what 'purchase order' means to a person applying for an administration role!!
Confidence seems the key to gaining some measure of accommodation in my experience. Picking up where they are not confident and getting things back on track without making a fuss or expecting them to "get down to your level to say thanks".
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Anyhow, your turn. I'm running out of cohesive thought.