I'd like to hear your thoughts. [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] especially because you talk about my e7 positivity so much and I don't want to be misrepresenting 7 since I can always feel the passion in your kind words.
korryn: mmm
korryn: while you are free floaty
korryn: you dont want to just be the friend who comes and goes to people
korryn: you wanna make lasting relationships
korryn: and be able to have a trustful relationship etc
korryn: you always want to help people to in their lives whether you just met them or not
Chandler: i see
I've heard it's nearly impossible to accomplish...A brilliant & sparkly e7 misrepresenting... e7.
^^while it is precisely what I would expect out of the various works on enneagram theory ...I think the above it a terrible/extremely misleading way to distinguish the e2 from the e7. In fact, I could make an argument which claims that the e7s relationships are more pure in the sense they are not dependent on anything other than a genuine affection for the other person as an autonomous being (that is not required to fulfill a certain preconceived response) separate from the e7s ego. /goin all Freud and stuff
All the Head types are independent and self-contained. This absolutely does not mean they don't wish for/strive for deep, emotionally-bonded, long-lasting relationships. Nor does it mean they don't want to give to others or be charitable. To the contrary, many e7s dedicate their lives to such things - myself included. The difference is found in the meaning placed on the *giving* itself. An e7 is most often enjoying the experience of giving - perhaps distracting themselves from their own emotional needs or unknowingly attempting to stay positive like 'yeah I'm doing good things!' who knows ...while the e2 (Heart types are not self-contained even when they appear to be) is looking for a particular positive response to satisfy their core fear. And it's not like the e7 won't hope for a positive response either... but the experience is enough if that makes sense. It's not filling a hole...it's more of doing something new (in excess) and positive.
e2 ENFPs really tend to offer a lot by way of advice rather than actually doing a lot of jobs or tasks like an ESFJ might. e7 ENFPs with their independent focus wouldn't dare do this for fear of coming off as 'preachy.'
I notice e7s do quite a bit of 'behind the scenes' stuff...that often goes unnoticed because they purposely try to take the focus off of whatever hardship is being experienced and make it seem like they are just randomly attempting to liven the mood, or create a cheerful environment, etc. Yet I know the work that goes into something like that. The ENFP e7 is far more likely to provide encouragement and inspiration than advice (unless asked of course.)
Right... I mean it in a completely dramtic way like
I need you like the desert needs the rain...Or I would walk 10000 miles just to be the man that walked 10000 miles just to be with you... I can't live without you I don't want to be without you
Haha okay that woulda worked better in person as I sang to you but it's really not on purposely dramatic but that sx feeling for me truly is.
It's not the 2ish you can count on me to help you when you're in a bind. I will do anything for you that I can. Just ask.
When I read this, I assumed the OP was asking what Chandler Bing's type was. I'm relieved.
Haha, I wouldn't get too critical of my friend. I just ramble on about various personality theories to her when I'm bored and she tries her best to understand them. I just took her advice to heart because she's my best friend and I value her advice. I admit the distinction she made between e2 and e7 was off since 7s (especially with the 6 wing) do value their relationships. I think any type values the relationships it forges - online descriptions just portray e7 as more of a lone wolf and independent spirit. It's just that, if your best friend is saying you're a 2 rather than a 7, then something must be up or at least worth addressing.
[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] covered that somewhere in the beginning of this thread actually. The conclusion was ESFJ 6w7 so/sp.
Edit: Oh wait, wasn't that [MENTION=15392]AffirmitiveAnxiety[/MENTION]'s type at some point?
I am going to come back to this when I'm not setting clothes on fire for Halloween haha...
I would definitely argue that. no strings attached relationships are always more authentic
I've heard it's nearly impossible to accomplish...A brilliant & sparkly e7 misrepresenting... e7.
^^while it is precisely what I would expect out of the various works on enneagram theory ...I think the above it a terrible/extremely misleading way to distinguish the e2 from the e7. In fact, I could make an argument which claims that the e7s relationships are more pure in the sense they are not dependent on anything other than a genuine affection for the other person as an autonomous being (that is not required to fulfill a certain preconceived response) separate from the e7s ego. /goin all Freud and stuff
trueAll the Head types are independent and self-contained. This absolutely does not mean they don't wish for/strive for deep, emotionally-bonded, long-lasting relationships.
eh, the last part is mostly Social 7s, but you may be right (a close 7w8 Sp/Sx acquaintance of mine runs a charity for example).Nor does it mean they don't want to give to others or be charitable. To the contrary, many e7s dedicate their lives to such things - myself included. The difference is found in the meaning placed on the *giving* itself.
this is very true (7s are a paradoxical combination of selfish and generous).An e7 is most often enjoying the experience of giving - perhaps distracting themselves from their own emotional needs or unknowingly attempting to stay positive like 'yeah I'm doing good things!' who knows
I can get on board with this...while the e2 (Heart types are not self-contained even when they appear to be) is looking for a particular positive response to satisfy their core fear. And it's not like the e7 won't hope for a positive response either... but the experience is enough if that makes sense. It's not filling a hole...it's more of doing something new (in excess) and positive.
this is a common misconception. it might apply to the 9 fixed 7w6, but lots of 7s are quite preachy due to their line to 1. this tendency is amplified if under stress, especially if the 7 is a 1 fixer (1 fixed 7 under stress = judgemental, narcissistic bitch. additionally, all the frustration types (1, 7 and 4) have a touch of self righteous idealism to theme2 ENFPs really tend to offer a lot by way of advice rather than actually doing a lot of jobs or tasks like an ESFJ might. e7 ENFPs with their independent focus wouldn't dare do this for fear of coming off as 'preachy.'
I've noticed 7s in general like to jump into the spot light every now and again, but don't want the responsibility that comes with staying there, so they opt for more "low maintenance" work.I notice e7s do quite a bit of 'behind the scenes' stuff...that often goes unnoticed because they purposely try to take the focus off of whatever hardship is being experienced and make it seem like they are just randomly attempting to liven the mood, or create a cheerful environment, etc. Yet I know the work that goes into something like that. The ENFP e7 is far more likely to provide encouragement and inspiration than advise (unless asked of course.)
I would definitely argue that. no strings attached relationships are always more authentic
unlike 2s however, their positivity isn't as much a part of their self image (in fact, some 7s would describe their personality as more "dark". Sx/Sp 7s can even come across as 4-ish) and they don't usually attempt to direct the energy of the group the way 2s do (this is why 2 is a power seeking type and not 7. 7 is more "whatever happens happens" and take a less deliberative approach to social interaction).
I may have spoken a little too soon. sexual relationships require at least a few strings, because you both have needs that only the other person can fulfill (for example, in a monogamous relationship, sex). personally, if there do need to be strings attached, I like to make them known so that both parties know exactly what they're getting into and what is expected of whom. 2s on the other hand operate based on subjective give and take, implicit expectations and "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" sort of thinking.I didn't realize what you quoted implied until you replied with this, but I personally disagree that no strings attached relationships are more authentic. For me anyways, because sex is something deeply emotional and binding for me. I couldn't have sex with someone without develop feelings for them, or getting thoughts in my head that what we had would go somewhere further. I also feel like if there's no love there and it's just sex then it's not worth my time. I don't want to waste my emotions on something that isn't going to be significant in the future. So you can take that as you will.
it did come off a little more conniving than I was intending (it's no secret I don't like 2s, but I tried to provide a comparison with minimal bias)I think I'm more 7 in this sense. I don't attempt to control or manipulate the energy of the group. Or maybe I'm taking it in a more conniving manner than you're trying to communicate. I like having my positive nature have positive effects on people. I like being uplifting to others. I love giving people a source of hope about life that they may not have otherwise. But I don't want to manipulate people's emotions in the group I'm with, I let them feel what they're feeling and then I'll do whatever I can to make their day a little brighter.
(I also do get a little preachy when debating someone - most of the arguments I start are primarily based on something that go against my morals)
I may have spoken a little too soon. sexual relationships require at least a few strings, because you both have needs that only the other person can fulfill (for example, in a monogamous relationship, sex). personally, if there do need to be strings attached, I like to make them known so that both parties know exactly what they're getting into and what is expected of whom. 2s on the other hand operate based on subjective give and take, implicit expectations and "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" sort of thinking.
it did come off a little more conniving than I was intending (it's no secret I don't like 2s, but I tried to provide a comparison with minimal bias)
if my observations of you carry any weight, I've noticed that you make subtle attempts to steer the other person's emotions in a more "positive" direction, but ultimately don't force it on them (which could either be interpreted as 2-ish or 7-ish imo)
I like letting the partner know what he's getting into and I usually like to know what I am as well but I don't push to ask too much so I don't seem clingy or hesitant, etc.
If I am a 2w3, you will start to like them.
WHY AM I SO BORDERLINE
also, I should have clarified, 2s are not like 8s. they're not going to strong arm you into liking them unless they are severely fucking unhealthy . average to healthy 2s are more about influence. they don't directly try to control people, but they will set up scenarios and manage certain dynamics which will suggest the behavior they're wishing to elicit. they're still hoping to sway you, they just want you to come to the decision yourself. on the other hand, 7s in this situation will typically be oblivious to all these social games. their minds are elsewhere
i think 7's just assume you like them haha
Really? Interesting. I'm good at reading whether someone likes me or not but I feel like even if someone likes me we both have to put in effort into building a connection with each other to actually become friends. Of course, I just have a pleasant conversation with someone once and then assume from there on that we're friends.
sure haha or neutral but neutral for me is usually to like ya until i don't. i think i assume it's like that for other people but truth is i don't really think about it.
Neutral for me is I have no positive or negative feelings about you and we haven't really connected on a meaningful level yet. Haha maybe this stuff could be like so-first vs. so-last? I love that you like people until they make you dislike them, though. That's so nice to hear that there are people like that whose default feeling about everyone in the room is liking. Gives me hope about the world.