Charisma & Fe

[Siúil a Rúin]

It could be useful to have a thread about behaviors that create charisma and positive social exchange. I thought this video was helpful. I tend to read negative intent into ambiguous situations. I'm not sure if I have Fe or not, but I can see that the outward focus has a lot to do with creating outcomes and not just reading accurately. Being positive even when it little bit distorts reality creates that positive reality, so I think that could be one aspect of Fe, but I'm not implying it's all of it. I think Fe is good at reading others accurately, but the expressed behaviors and word choice can be outcome oriented over defining. Maybe Fe is a bit like approach the subjective realm more like a verb than a noun? Feel free to share whatever thoughts.

 

[yeghor]

She comes across much more natural in this clip from 2005.

I think in Marvel clips she might be feeling insecure and anxious and trying to relieve her tension by acting witty but she is not very good at it cause it comes across as childish and immature.

Either she is immature or she has a role model in her mind and thinks she has to act a certain way to fit in yet it becomes artificial and socially awkward. That might be a sign of some Ne in her type.

I think she would fit better in an eccentric/artsy hippie role or something rather than a superhero.

Fe on the other hand is more like a representation of being charming and caring towards others and is usually conveyed thru mimics and body language that conveys to the other party that they are valued.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Although it is logically inconsistent to judge Brie negatively in ambiguous situations.

 

[yeghor]

Although it is logically inconsistent to judge Brie negatively in ambiguous situations.

Why is that?

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Why is that?

The point is that she is lacking charisma because she seems like maybe she is making negative assumptions in ambiguous situations, but we aren't entirely sure that's what she's doing, but let's dislike her because we are going to assume the negative in her ambiguous situation.

If Brie is uncharismatic for doing that then people who assume negatively on her are also lacking charisma. Same thing, right?

 

[yeghor]

The point is that she is lacking charisma because she seems like maybe she is making negative assumptions in ambiguous situations, but we aren't entirely sure that's what she's doing, but let's dislike her because we are going to assume the negative in her ambiguous situation.

If Brie is uncharismatic for doing that then people who assume negatively on her are also lacking charisma. Same thing, right?

No, it's not the same thing. That's called projection, it's an ego defense mechanism.

 

[Totenkindly]

Is this thread about Brie Larson?

My general feelings (and yes, I did watch much of the opening video):

1. Larson is a decent actress. Great in Room, and I also need to watch Short Term 12.

2. I really don't like Larson much esp after she entered the MCU (I think Captain Marvel is one of the worst Phase 1-3 MCU films and that she was generally miscast for this role, although that is not her fault, but CM needed a different presence); and I don't like how she came across during these years on screen and in public; and my son pokes me on my dislike, as if I am being unreasonable. I actually might be unreasonable and admit it, I even laugh about it. It's more about, "I don't really know what she's like, but I wish she'd stop poking all the 'hate me!' buttons". Basically, this is about me just acknowledging that she generates a negative response from me -- but she might not be as awful as she scans at times. [Note: as a weird thing, she played Scott Pilgrim's snooty ex in the same film of that name, and there her current public persona and her character actually mesh up. And no one cared then, because it all meshed. She's competent at that role.]

3. In conjunction with the footage, I think there is a strong chance her social skills just suck. I think she might actually be kidding, a bit anxious, TRYING to be funny and/or in control and sound smooth during these interviews (because she's insecure in front of SO many people and being a bona fide celebrity), but the collection of behaviors she has put together to accomplish this actually is undermining her intentions. This doesn't make me like her any more because she still rubs me the wrong way; but at least I am willing to acknowledge she could just an okay person in reality, she just really sucks at presentation in these higher-exposure appearances and in conjunction with other celebrities who are much better at self-deprecation and presenting themselves in likable ways. To summarize: I actively fine her public appearances/comments irksome, but at the same time if she was hanging out with friends of mine in a private setting, I would go and feel like maybe she'd be fun to be around or at least interesting.

4. She is really bad at telegraphing her actual intent. Sometimes just subtle nods are needed. As the video notes, if she means to be sarcastic, she needs to indicate this a little better rather than playing it SO straight. (I see this as someone who is trying to be seen as cool and be accepted but without the natural ability to communicate that she's kidding around. I think she's trying to be coy, without the cues to signal it.) Brand is a great example in the video, he makes an ALMOST straight joke about how his detractor shouldn't be paying attention to his jokes while driving, but in the middle of it he flashes a really quick small smile, and it marks the whole thing as him being playful rather than serious - he's kidding around, not actually insulting the guy. I think Larson is actually more naturally serious as a person (as her earlier film roles attest) and she's trying to be funny now in order to win approval but is just... bad at it, so her sarcasm actually scans as seriousness. Maybe she will get better with more practice.

5. I also think it feeds on itself. The more negativity she gets, the more she gets anxious, the more she tries to be liked, the harder she does the same faulty behaviors, and it just builds into a terrible loop.

 

[yeghor]

The point is that she is lacking charisma because she seems like maybe she is making negative assumptions in ambiguous situations, but we aren't entirely sure that's what she's doing, but let's dislike her because we are going to assume the negative in her ambiguous situation.

If Brie is uncharismatic for doing that then people who assume negatively on her are also lacking charisma. Same thing, right?

I am far from charismatic by the way. In the end, we are all what we are, the sooner we accept ourselves as we are with our positive and negative qualities, the sooner we become at peace with ourselves. We cannot change our core genetics, we can just try to strengthen our qualities. (Of course that comes easy to me to say that now that I am in my 40s.)

Some people are more appealing to the general public, and I am not, and there is no need to lose sleep over it. Bree may find outlier niche communities where she will be better received for who she is and feel happier. Or she might develop in later ages improved social skills that would make her more appealing to the general public.

It's like a fantasy role playing game, we cannot have all our stats 18 (maxxed out) by default.

 

[Indigo Rodent]

Brie Larson is an ENTJ.

The whole cottage industry around hating her is pathetic. I think people dislike her because of her face and her voice and just build elaborate justifications for it. Like they are like a bunch of mean girls in high school bullying an unpopular kid.

It's just lookism in action.

Also, note the paranoid interpretation of her talking about doing about stunt doubles. Like she seems to be genuinely confused. This guy thinks that people play some kind of elaborate mental games when giving quick reply in a conversation. Lol, does that guy ever come out of his house? Like it's literally like he never talks to people in real time and to him conversations are all about hatching some kind of elaborate plot about how to increase his social status. Like she's literally stating a simple fact and he created an entire elaborate conspiracy theory about it.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

It could be useful to have a thread about behaviors that create charisma and positive social exchange. I thought this video was helpful.[...snipped]

Responding to the OP:

Disclaimer
I don't watch superhero movies, so I don't know any of the characters in the video in the OP. I just know the names from Hollywood gossip videos. (The only person in the video who I even vaguely know is Craig Ferguson, the late night talk show host who is goofing around with Larson's shoulders in a couple short bits in the OP video.) So I'm just judging by what I'm seeing in the OP video.

Having said that, I think there are two issues I want to raise:

Se, not Fe
The OP talks about the nature of Fe. But when I watched the video clip, I saw little or no Fe. Instead I saw lots of Se, mostly in the male stars (Hemsworth and Chris Pratt), and also in the "likability" concepts discussed by the narrator.

To expand on that point:

I have an Fe-Dom brother and an Se-Dom sister. If I were to try to express the difference in a sentence or two, I would say that the difference between Fe and Se is more or less like this:
--Fe is about sensing the temperature of a room, setting an appropriate demeanor, and then subtly trying to build an emotional consensus on values or emotions. It tends to be more "intense" than Se.
--Se is about being playful. It can result in being silly, giddy, lots of joking and horsing around, etc. It tends to be lighter and more nonsensical.

Again, I don't know any background on the young actors appearing in the video, so I don't know if they are Se-Dom or not. But I would argue that, for the purpose of the interviews shown in the video, Pratt and Hemsworth were at least creating Se-related personas for the purpose of keeping the interview light and fun and for the purpose of appearing non-threatening and likable. And talk-show host Craig Ferguson is definitely an Se-Dom. (I used to watch his late-night show.)

Also, the tricks that the narrator of the video suggested were largely Se-related: For example, if you want to *appear* more likable, then you should try to *act* more likable: Take the lead by handing out compliments liberally, react to the situation with jokes and goodwill (even when you suspect the other person might have been putting you down), etc. I associate such devices more with Se than with Fe.

The only people who didn't use Se in the video were Larson and Russell Brand. Brand is a more intense personality than Hemsworth and Pratt and might have been using Fe or Ne. (But I don't know him enough to say.)

Why wasn't Larson using Se?
Larson was suffering from "likability" issues in this video, and I can think of two easy explanations off the top of my head:

First explanation:

If her male co-stars are using lots of Se and clowning around during promotional interviews together, then maybe Larson doesn't *want* to use Se. Maybe Larson wants to use some other approach and set herself apart from the crowd. For example, she might be deliberately creating a persona where she acts like kind of an over-the-top bitchy woman, but she plays it with a straight face so that it's up to people to guess whether she's joking or being serious. In other words, it might be a deliberate choice on her part to try to distinguish herself from her co-actors and act like the queen bee in any gathering. It may be her way of avoiding appearing to defer to the others or disappearing into the crowd and being "just another pretty face."

I guess her main role (Captain Marvel) is supposed to be a kick-ass "Mary Sue" character. So maybe she's trying to channel a similar persona in interviews--kind of in-your-face and damn-the-torpedoes.

However, it might not be a good look. It has gotten her some bad press, i.e., people say that she is abrasive and unlikable. When all the other actors and interviewers are using lots of Se and acting likable and silly and giddy, then acting abrasive and annoying as a contrast may not be a good look.

A different possibility:

I've heard it suggested that Larson might be an introvert. Apparently she has a YouTube channel (never watched it myself), and people have criticized her videos for being too introverted: Not enough portrayals of friends, partying, etc. So that could be another easy explanation for bitchiness on the part of Larson in promotional interviews for movies. I've heard that these promotional tours are exhausting. And if Larson is an introvert trying to keep up with a bunch of extraverted co-stars, she may get kind of frazzled at times and turn bitchy or defensive. In such a situation, the extraverts will still come off as likable (because Se and extraversion), while the introvert will get frazzled and come off as unlikable and defensive.

If that's the case (in other words, if Larson is an introvert and is simply getting tired and defensive and irritable), then the narrator is correct: Larson could benefit by learning more Se like her male co-stars.

My own personal opinion
But actually my own personal opinion is that Larson is doing what I suggested in the first explanation: I suspect that she has deliberately chosen a bitchy persona to distinguish herself from her peers and somewhat match her on-screen presence. And if it's a deliberate choice, then she probably knows and accepts the trade-offs: She loses in terms of likability but she gains in terms of standing out and being a "presence" in these interviews, where she might otherwise get lost in the crowd.

Of course, other explanations are also possible. But these are the things that came to my mind from just watching the video in the OP and not knowing any of the people from other sources. I kind of suspect that Larson is being bitchy and over-the-top on purpose. Her male co-stars are big and handsome and imposing, and they use lots of Se in order to appear fun and friendly and likable--it's a strategic choice on their part to appear warm and fun in keeping with the goofiness of their roles. Whereas Larson is smaller and less imposing, so she could be choosing to go the opposite route to increase her presence in the room: Be a bit bitchy and annoying and inscrutable in order to keep from disappearing into the crowd. Such a persona may grate on people, but at least she gets noticed. And in Hollywood, "getting noticed" is the name of the game.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

Brie Larson is an ENTJ. [...snipped]

I could see that. In fact, when first watching the video linked in the OP, I got the impression of Te-Dom from Larson.

But you never know. Actors and actresses are very good at deliberately choosing their personas for public consumption. So it's always tough to say what type they really are in their personal life. So unless I'm very familiar with the work of a certain actor, I always just say that they are exhibiting such-and-such "persona" in a given video or movie. ("Persona" is literally a Greek word meaning "actor's mask.")

 

[yeghor]

Brie Larson is an ENTJ.

The whole cottage industry around hating her is pathetic. I think people dislike her because of her face and her voice and just build elaborate justifications for it. Like they are like a bunch of mean girls in high school bullying an unpopular kid.

It's just lookism in action.

Also, note the paranoid interpretation of her talking about doing about stunt doubles. Like she seems to be genuinely confused. This guy thinks that people play some kind of elaborate mental games when giving quick reply in a conversation. Lol, does that guy ever come out of his house? Like it's literally like he never talks to people in real time and to him conversations are all about hatching some kind of elaborate plot about how to increase his social status. Like she's literally stating a simple fact and he created an entire elaborate conspiracy theory about it.

I think she's an INFP but she's trying to come across as a witty INTP in the interview for some reason but fails the delivery so she becomes fake.

And all her friends look like priviledged people by the way. They wouldn't last a minute on the streets, meaning their Se (toughness) is very weak.

Milli Bobbie Brown of Stranger Things also had a habit of acting socially inappropriately, but she is way more entitled than Brie (because maybe she is younger and less mature).

 

[yeghor]

Milli Bobbie Brown of Stranger Things also had a habit of acting socially inappropriately, but she is way more entitled than Brie (because maybe she is younger and less mature).

Millie is much more contained and mature here. She doesn't feel anxious and interrupt her friends. She looks at them and read their body language. She doesn't feel anxious or rejected so she doesn't cower in and go to defensive mode.

 

[Indigo Rodent]

I think she's an INFP but she's trying to come across as a witty INTP in the interview for some reason but fails the delivery so she becomes fake.

She's an obvious Te dom.

And all her friends look like priviledged people by the way. They wouldn't last a minute on the streets, meaning their Se (toughness) is very weak.

That's not how privilege works.

Milli Bobbie Brown of Stranger Things also had a habit of acting socially inappropriately, but she is way more entitled than Brie (because maybe she is younger and less mature).

Ok, saw through your game, blocking you.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

Brie Larson demonstrates pretty good Se in these old appearances on Craig Ferguson's late-night talk show: Ferguson is a strong Se-Dom, and Larson is mirroring Ferguson's Se pretty effectively.

 

[yeghor]

Brie Larson demonstrates pretty good Se in these old appearances on Craig Ferguson's late-night talk show: Ferguson is a strong Se-Dom, and Larson is mirroring Ferguson's Se pretty effectively.

Maybe Ferguson is mirroring her Ne goofiness instead?

 

[Tennessee Jed]

No way. Ferguson is just doing his normal thing. Check out this video for his usual stuff:

 

[yeghor]

No way. Ferguson is just doing his normal thing. Check out this video for his usual stuff:

They are talking about weird imaginary stuff and talking to skeletons and animal puppets, how is that Se?

If you were to define his demeanor/style in three adjectives, what would they be?

 

[Tennessee Jed]

Ferguson's humor is the lightest and fluffiest of humor, and he's riffing off exactly what's happening around him. There's no intuition there. It's just banter and silliness and working with the silly props around him or the lines he's fed by the other people on the stage. Very concrete, very sensorish.

Just because he's stacked the environment with silly stuff doesn't make it Ne. Those are simply absurdist, silly props for riffing in the moment.

I love how people try to claim Ne whenever they see anything the least bit offbeat. Ferguson isn't Ne. Ferguson is all about Se and being in the moment and riffing off the stuff and the people that are directly in front of him. Not intuitive at all.

 

[yeghor]

Ferguson's humor is the lightest and fluffiest of humor, and he's riffing off exactly what's happening around him. There's no intuition there. It's just banter and silliness and working with the silly props around him or the lines he's fed by the other people on the stage. Very concrete, very sensorish.

Just because he's stacked the environment with silly stuff doesn't make it Ne. Those are simply props for riffing in the moment.

I love how people try to turn anything into Ne. Ferguson is all about Se and being in the moment and riffing off the stuff and the people that are directly in front of him. Not intuitive at all.

Silliness is what Ne is. I would expect Se humor to be more vulgar and profane.