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Ubuntu (the philosophy, not the OS)

Mal12345

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Ubuntu (philosophy) - Wikipedia

Ubuntu aptly describes how modern Western ideologies, both Left and Right, have destroyed the virtue of kindness and the value of belonging to a group. "Ubuntu," strictly interpreted, means "humanity." The word "Humane" means "having or showing compassion or benevolence" (Google). When you serve the humanity of others you serve humanity within you.

This concept does not include creating massive bureaucracies which tax you half to death in order to serve the needs of others within a society. A typical charity keeps 99% of donations for itself. This is no different from government hand-out schemes. It detracts from the meaning of serving others to force you to give to the state who then acts as the dispenser of goods on your behalf because it takes your beneficence out of the equation. Even if you like paying your taxes, doing so does not benefit the humanity within you because you have lost direct contact with those you are serving. When your neighbor asks to "borrow" a cup of sugar, you do not give it to a government bureaucrat who then keeps 99% of the sugar for himself. In order to give your neighbor a cup of sugar via government hand-outs, the amount needs to be almost doubled in order to ensure that the neighbor receives 1 cup. But that fact distracts from the very idea that you haven't directly donated part of your life to someone else out of kindness. Socialist charity schemes are not only detracting from you economically, they detract from your humanity.

Ubuntu, when applied to Western ideologies, will be unfriendly to feminism. Does anybody remember how feminism began? I do because I was there. It started by abstracting the female from her social roots which feminists construe as a form of bondage. The feminist is no longer a member of a society but of an organization designed to destroy the roots of womanhood in society. This is accomplished by telling her that she can dress as she wants, and that it's nobody's business if she's married or not. And so, around 1968 women started going against social dress custom by wearing men's jeans, and they began to insist on being called "Ms." instead of "Mrs." or "Miss." The former is a social means of communicating that you are married - marriage being a social construct. "Miss" is a signal to others that you are single. Since it is now nobody's business one way or the other, according to feminism, the female has been abstracted out of society, cut away from her roots, at least partially, but in a major way. The female identity is no longer rooted in society, and by doing so, each woman has lost her social identity. Marriage no longer has social importance, but only provides certain economic advantages when doing one's taxes. In this way, society slowly begins to fall apart. But since humans can't survive without others (remember, Ubuntu means "humanity"), they begin to form packs and alliances that oppose other packs and alliances. They engage in inhuman activities based on allegiance to the other members of the pack. With social values cut away, people become more materialistic. Even history is defined in materialistic ways. The Civil War, it is sometimes claimed, was not conducted in order to free the slaves (thus serving the higher value of freedom), it was waged to further enrich wealthy Northerners (thus serving lower, materialistic values). This is a modern interpretation based on modern values which have been generated by modern ideologies, and was not true at the time the actual events occurred. It is to imply that what holds true for us today always held true for others in the past, and this is partially caused by school systems that teach children from a young age that your historical roots are evil, that Columbus was a criminal genocidist and Jefferson held slaves. Meanwhile, people don't stop hating because that's what people were doing all along anyway, only now they have defined their hatred in different ways. Fifty years ago you were hated for being different; now you are hated because you are *not* different.

Ubuntu is a philosophy diametrically opposed to hatred. It redefines the individual in terms of the greater value of the whole, something that is believed in theory by modern Western ideologies but not practiced in any way shape or form, or at best only obliquely. From the loss of social value was born both the Left and the Right, but extreme independence from social values is the language they have in common. Libertarianism seeks to pretend that the individual has no innate social value, while Socialist movements seeks to maintain that the individual is innately social but this is defined in very loose, abstract terms ("It Takes A Village"); the framework is made of "straw," like the huts found in African villages. Their concepts don't hold together when held up to the exigent needs of reality, but they are kept from falling apart by political organizations that rely on huge amounts of donations from large, wealthy corporate and international donors. Once again, materialism holds the reigns. Ubuntu, as a higher concept, is only paid lip-service by Hitleresque authoritarian figures such as Hillary Clinton who are struggling to maintain a dim shadow of moral virtue in a world which has forgotten its meaning.
 

Mole

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With the creation of the printing press in 1440 and the rise of universal literacy in prosperous nations, we discovered a new way of thinking called counter-intuitive thinking.

And starting to think counter-intuitively, we discovered modern science, modern economics, modern art, modern music, modern dance; we discovered liberal democracy.

We transformed the world from the intuitive world of spoken culture to the counter-intuitive world of literacy.

We discovered the literate individual, an improvement on the tribe of spoken cultures.

And I hardly need point out that the literate individual is the antithesis of ubuntu.
 

Mal12345

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With the creation of the printing press in 1440 and the rise of universal literacy in prosperous nations, we discovered a new way of thinking called counter-intuitive thinking.

And starting to think counter-intuitively, we discovered modern science, modern economics, modern art, modern music, modern dance; we discovered liberal democracy.

We transformed the world from the intuitive world of spoken culture to the counter-intuitive world of literacy.

We discovered the literate individual, an improvement on the tribe of spoken cultures.

And I hardly need point out that the literate individual is the antithesis of ubuntu.

You're a nihilist. I like that about you, Mole.
 

Mole

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You're a nihilist. I like that about you, Mole.

Rather than being a nihilist, I am a believer. I believe we are meaning creating animals, and that without meaning we sicken and die.

And I believe some meanings are life enhancing and some life diminishing.

And I believe we perceive by making distinctions, and the more distinctions, the more we see, and the less distinctions, the less we see.

And I know English contains more words than any other language, so has more permutations and combinations than any other language. So English contains more distinctions than any other language, so we see more.

See.
 

Mal12345

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Rather than being a nihilist, I am a believer. I believe we are meaning creating animals, and that without meaning we sicken and die.

And I believe some meanings are life enhancing and some life diminishing.

And I believe we perceive by making distinctions, and the more distinctions, the more we see, and the less distinctions, the less we see.

And I know English contains more words than any other language, so has more permutations and combinations than any other language. So English contains more distinctions than any other language, so we see more.

See.

Of course I see. You're an Existential Nihilist.

Life has no intrinsic meaning, only that meaning which humans give it.

Existential nihilism - Wikipedia

So as YOU see, I am no dummy, I do know what I'm talking about.
 

Mole

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The Intrinsic and the Instrumental

Of course I see. You're an Existential Nihilist.

Life has no intrinsic meaning, only that meaning which humans give it.

Existential nihilism - Wikipedia

So as YOU see, I am no dummy, I do know what I'm talking about.

Of course you are no dummy, and you know what you are talking about.

All I can say in my defence is I don't know whether life has intrinsic meaning, and I don't know whether life doesn't have intrinsic meaning. So I would have to describe myself as agnostic.

And when I examine intrinsic meaning of life such as Ganesh, the God with the head of an elephant, and when I examined the intrinsic meaning of life, such as the Trinity, the God with three heads, I can see they are preposterous, and so I keep on looking for the intrinsic meaning of life.

I do though think happiness and satisfaction are realised by doing things for intrinsic reasons rather than instrumental reasons.

I would like to see myself on the side of the angels and perhaps my love of the intrinsic might get me through the door.
 

Galaxy Gazer

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I think Ubuntu is great, but the feminist movement needed to happen. Women were literally second-class citizens before that.

Even the social aspects of 1st/2nd wave feminism are important. For example, women started using the prefix "Ms." because a relationship status should not define a woman any more than it defines a man.

You seem to strongly oppose feminism, so I don't know if you'll even consider what I'm saying, but try to look at it from our point of view. Even now, we're often judged for not wanting to get married or have kids. Some mothers are judged for working full-time.

My point is that we shouldn't have to fit into archetypes that society has laid out for us. Why do women have to be social and family-oriented? Why do men have to be career-focused and good leaders? Why can't we all just be ourselves (within reason, I mean, since there is a need for societal norms that keep people from generally being shitty)?

It's actually one of the main reasons I'm so into typology. According to the Myers-Briggs theory, there are 16 generalized types of people, regardless of gender. There are female INTJs and male ESFJs. It's not fair that some people should have to suppress their natural qualities and strengths because they're not consistent with gender roles.
 

Mole

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According to the Myers-Briggs theory, there are 16 generalized types of people.

Do you mean to tell us there are only 16 generalised types of people in the seven and a half thousand million persons alive today, and the thousands of millions of persons who have come before?
 

Mal12345

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Do you mean to tell us there are only 16 generalised types of people in the seven and a half thousand million persons alive today, and the thousands of millions of persons who have come before?

Or 8, or 5, or 3...
 

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Do you mean to tell us there are only 16 generalised types of people in the seven and a half thousand million persons alive today, and the thousands of millions of persons who have come before?

The key word there is 'generalized.' But yes, there are only 16 MBTI types.
 

Mole

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The key word there is 'generalized.' But yes, there are only 16 MBTI types.

There are the somatic types Aryan, Jew, Negro, and Asian. The psychological types of Carl Jung were created to complement the somatic types.

The fact is there are a vast number of generalised types that can be applied to seven and half thousand million persons.

So the 16 types of mbti were chosen to hypnotise us by limiting our attention, and the 16 types of mbti were chosen to reify persons so they can be controlled or killed. It is very difficult to kill a person but it is much easier to kill a thing. And Jung and his colleagues were successful beyond their wildest dreams in that they succeeded in killing 12 million of their own people, 6 million Jews and 6 million others.
 

Galaxy Gazer

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There are the somatic types Aryan, Jew, Negro, and Asian. The psychological types of Carl Jung were created to complement the somatic types.

The fact is there are a vast number of generalised types that can be applied to seven and half thousand million persons.

So the 16 types of mbti were chosen to hypnotise us by limiting our attention, and the 16 types of mbti were chosen to reify persons so they can be controlled or killed. It is very difficult to kill a person but it is much easier to kill a thing. And Jung and his colleagues were successful beyond their wildest dreams in that they succeeded in killing 12 million of their own people, 6 million Jews and 6 million others.

Cite your sources?
I also don't see how the original intended purpose of typology theory negates what I'm saying about not all men/women having personalities that match up with their assigned gender role.
 

Mole

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Cite your sources?
I also don't see how the original intended purpose of typology theory negates what I'm saying about not all men/women having personalities that match up with their assigned gender role.

Carl Jung took his orders from Reichmarshall Hermann Goering.

And there is no such thing as typology theory. There are theories like the periodic table, relativity, quantum mechanics, and natural selection, but typology theory is not a scientific theory. It doesn't exist.

I believe you are sincere and have been gulled into believing in a non existent theory.
 

Galaxy Gazer

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Carl Jung took his orders from Reichmarshall Hermann Goering.

And there is no such thing as typology theory. There are theories like the periodic table, relativity, quantum mechanics, and natural selection, but typology theory is not a scientific theory. It doesn't exist.

I believe you are sincere and have been gulled into believing in a non existent theory.

I know that MBTI is not scientific, but it doesn't change the fact that everyone can be typed. I mean... this is sort of a typology site.
And you still didn't answer the second part of my question.
 

Mole

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I know that MBTI is not scientific, but it doesn't change the fact that everyone can be typed. I mean... this is sort of a typology site.
And you still didn't answer the second part of my question.

There is the question of deception. The very title of our site is a deception hiding the real and original name of our site called MBTI Central.

Typology means the study of types, from types of planets to types of words to personality types. It is the study of any types. And as you can see Typology Central is not the study of types.

And there is the deception about the extensive personal diary of Carl Jung. Jung's diary is called The Red Book and was hidden in a locked safe for more than 70 years by his disciples.

No one likes to be deceived but perhaps it is understandable as it necessary to deceive ourselves in order to use mbti.
 

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I believe this is what Mole is talking about - The Red Book(Jung)

After having skimmed that Wikipedia page, what do you find deceitful about it [MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION]?
 

Mole

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I believe this is what Mole is talking about - The Red Book(Jung)

After having skimmed that Wikipedia page, what do you find deceitful about it [MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION]?

It was hidden in a locked safe because it shows Carl Jung suffered from a florid psychosis.

And his followers might not have taken him as guide to their psyche is they knew he was psychotic.
 

Mal12345

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I think Ubuntu is great, but the feminist movement needed to happen. Women were literally second-class citizens before that.

Even the social aspects of 1st/2nd wave feminism are important. For example, women started using the prefix "Ms." because a relationship status should not define a woman any more than it defines a man.

You seem to strongly oppose feminism, so I don't know if you'll even consider what I'm saying, but try to look at it from our point of view. Even now, we're often judged for not wanting to get married or have kids. Some mothers are judged for working full-time.

My point is that we shouldn't have to fit into archetypes that society has laid out for us. Why do women have to be social and family-oriented? Why do men have to be career-focused and good leaders? Why can't we all just be ourselves (within reason, I mean, since there is a need for societal norms that keep people from generally being shitty)?

It's actually one of the main reasons I'm so into typology. According to the Myers-Briggs theory, there are 16 generalized types of people, regardless of gender. There are female INTJs and male ESFJs. It's not fair that some people should have to suppress their natural qualities and strengths because they're not consistent with gender roles.

That is completely anti-Ubuntu.
"It started by abstracting the female from her social roots which feminists construe as a form of bondage." Do you agree that this is how it went?
'women started using the prefix "Ms." because a relationship status should not define a woman any more than it defines a man.' It was more than just the title, her entire name was defined by her relationship to a man, for example, "Mrs. Darren Stevens." This was more than just a social custom denoting marriage, it also indicated that she was a virtuous woman according to the moral terms of her culture which is deemed by feminists to be male-dominated and unequal.

But as you've observed, social customs (or "archetypes") applied to both sexes:
"Why do women have to be social and family-oriented? Why do men have to be career-focused and good leaders?" So there actually was equality because each gender had social roles placed on them, it's just that the roles were different. To say that women should be equal to men simply means, as I've observed, that women should be social, family-oriented, career-focused, and good leaders. The modern female needs to be a little bit of everything, both male and female. This is the result of your feminist push for gender equality. Instead of giving women freedom of choice, feminism has placed more burdens on women.
 
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