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Do I use Fe or Fi?

Mal12345

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Sorry, what? :unsure:

The question is not using one function versus the other, but which one you use more often. But if you are Fe dominant (which I doubt), then Fi will be a shadow function which you also use. If you are Fi dominant, then Fe will be a shadow function. You've already pointed out in the OP that you use both, so what's the real question?
 

Dox

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The question is not using one function versus the other, but which one you use more often. But if you are Fe dominant (which I doubt), then Fi will be a shadow function which you also use. If you are Fi dominant, then Fe will be a shadow function. You've already pointed out in the OP that you use both, so what's the real question?

I see. xD

I posted this thread in hopes that I would be able to discern which function is in my first four functions and which is in the last four. I hoped to get more help on the differences between Fe and Fi.

And I wasn't sure if I was using both the functions, or just having skewed perceptions of them and thinking that I use both a lot. So I needed help and more information about the two functions.
 

Mal12345

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I see. xD

I posted this thread in hopes that I would be able to discern which function is in my first four functions and which is in the last four. I hoped to get more help on the differences between Fe and Fi.

And I wasn't sure if I was using both the functions, or just having skewed perceptions of them and thinking that I use both a lot. So I needed help and more information about the two functions.

Which function represents pessimism for you, Fe or Fi?
 

Mal12345

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A handful of people have commented on my avatar.
Am I doing the whole avatar thing right? :p

Your avatar isn't relevant to your type.
 

Destiny

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I know it's just a vibe, but I'm definitely not an INTJ. I don't feel I use Ni.

- - - Updated - - -


Why do you feel that you don't use Ni? How do you define Ni?


I guess I also offer ways to see their situation from different perspectives.


This is what you wrote in your OP earlier. Now tell me, being able to see a situation from different/multiple perspectives, which function would you attribute this trait to?
 

Dox

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Why do you feel that you don't use Ni? How do you define Ni?

I define Ni as 'zooming out', looking at many different situations at once, finding patterns and forming conclusions to how future situations may unfold. I also see Ni as predicting the future based on past conscious unconscious "storing" of data.



This is what you wrote in your OP earlier. Now tell me, being able to see a situation from different/multiple perspectives, which function would you attribute this trait to?

Ne-Si. Because I usually look at different perspectives based on how I remember others have looked at things and try to look at it their way.. Shit, does Ni-Se does this too? I may not be understanding these functions at all.
 
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Destiny

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I define Ni as 'zooming out', looking at many different situations at once, finding patterns and forming conclusions to how future situations may unfold. I also see Ni as predicting the future based on past conscious unconscious "storing" of data.





Ne-Si. Because I usually look at different perspectives based on how I remember others have looked at things and try to look at it their way.. Shit, does Ni-Se does this too? I may not be understanding these functions at all.



Introverted iNtuition is transcending to a meta-perspective, it's about shifting from one perspective to another and then interpreting the same thing from multiple different, subjective angles.
I think this website here explains Ni quite well, you might want to take a look at it.

INFJ iNtuition


The below is also another good website about introverted intuition.

Lenore Thomson's Introverted Intuition
 

Dox

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Introverted iNtuition is transcending to a meta-perspective, it's about shifting from one perspective to another and then interpreting the same thing from multiple different, subjective angles.
I think this website here explains Ni quite well, you might want to take a look at it.

INFJ iNtuition


The below is also another good website about introverted intuition.

Lenore Thomson's Introverted Intuition

Thank you SO MUCH for the links.

To be honest, I was already getting comfortable being an xNFP. Now I'm not so sure if I'm one anymore.. :unsure:

If it isn't much trouble, and if you have some at hand already, could you please give me more information on Ne?
 

Destiny

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Thank you SO MUCH for the links.

To be honest, I was already getting comfortable being an xNFP. Now I'm not so sure if I'm one anymore.. :unsure:

If it isn't much trouble, and if you have some at hand already, could you please give me more information on Ne?


The below is an excerpt taken from Jung's work, this is how he defined Ne:


(III) THE PECULIARITIES OF THE BASIC PSYCHOLOGICAL FUNCTIONS IN THE EXTRAVERTED ATTITUDE

8. Intuition

Intuition as the function of unconscious perception is wholly directed upon outer objects in the extraverted attitude. Because, in the main, intuition is an unconscious process, the conscious apprehension of its nature is a very difficult matter. In consciousness, the intuitive function is represented by a certain attitude of expectation, a perceptive and penetrating vision, wherein only the subsequent result can prove, in every case, how much was [p. 462] 'perceived-into', and how much actually lay in the object.

Just as sensation, when given the priority, is not a mere reactive process of no further importance for the object, but is almost an action which seizes and shapes the object, so it is with intuition, which is by no means a mere perception, or awareness, but an active, creative process that builds into the object just as much as it takes out. But, because this process extracts the perception unconsciously, it also produces an unconscious effect in the object. The primary function of intuition is to transmit mere images, or perceptions of relations and conditions, which could be gained by the other functions, either not at all, or only by very roundabout ways. Such images have the value of definite discernments, and have a decisive bearing upon action, whenever intuition is given the chief weight; in which case, psychic adaptation is based almost exclusively upon intuition. Thinking, feeling, and sensation are relatively repressed; of these, sensation is the one principally affected, because, as the conscious function of sense, it offers the greatest obstacle to intuition. Sensation disturbs intuition's clear, unbiassed, na[umlaut]ive awareness with its importunate sensuous stimuli; for these direct the glance upon the physical superficies, hence upon the very things round and beyond which intuition tries to peer. But since intuition, in the extraverted attitude, has a prevailingly objective orientation, it actually comes very near to sensation; indeed, the expectant attitude towards outer objects may, with almost equal probability, avail itself of sensation. Hence, for intuition really to become paramount, sensation must to a large extent be suppressed. I am now speaking of sensation as the simple and direct sense-reaction, an almost definite physiological and psychic datum. This must be expressly established beforehand, because, if I ask the intuitive how he is [p. 463] orientated, he will speak of things which are quite indistinguishable from sense-perceptions. Frequently he will even make use of the term 'sensation'. He actually has sensations, but he is not guided by them per se, merely using them as directing-points for his distant vision. They are selected by unconscious expectation. Not the strongest sensation, in the physiological sense, obtains the crucial value, but any sensation whatsoever whose value happens to become considerably enhanced by reason of the intuitive's unconscious attitude. In this way it may eventually attain the leading position, appearing to the intuitive's consciousness indistinguishable from a pure sensation. But actually it is not so.

Just as extraverted sensation strives to reach the highest pitch of actuality, because only thus can the appearance of a complete life be created, so intuition tries to encompass the greatest possibilities, since only through the awareness of possibilities is intuition fullysatisfied. Intuition seeks to discover possibilities in the objective situation; hence as a mere tributary function (viz. when not in the position of priority) it is also the instrument which, in the presence of a hopelessly blocked situation, works automatically towards the issue, which no other function could discover. Where intuition has the priority, every ordinary situation in life seems like a closed room, which intuition has to open. It is constantly seeking outlets and fresh possibilities in external life. In a very short time every actual situation becomes a prison to the intuitive; it burdens him like a chain, prompting a compelling need for solution. At times objects would seem to have an almost exaggerated value, should they chance to represent the idea of a severance or release that might lead to the discovery of a new possibility. Yet no sooner have they performed their office, serving intuition as a ladder or a bridge, than they [p. 464] appear to have no further value, and are discarded as mere burdensome appendages. A fact is acknowledged only in so far as it opens up fresh possibilities of advancing beyond it and of releasing the individual from its operation. Emerging possibilities are compelling motives from which intuition cannot escape and to which all else must be sacrificed.

9. The Extraverted Intuitive Type

Whenever intuition predominates, a particular and unmistakable psychology presents itself. Because intuition is orientated by the object, a decided dependence upon external situations is discernible, but it has an altogether different character from the dependence of the sensational type. The intuitive is never to be found among the generally recognized reality values, but he is always present where possibilities exist. He has a keen nose for things in the bud pregnant with future promise. He can never exist in stable, long-established conditions of generally acknowledged though limited value: because his eye is constantly ranging for new possibilities, stable conditions have an air of impending suffocation. He seizes hold of new objects and new ways with eager intensity, sometimes with extraordinary enthusiasm, only to abandon them cold-bloodedly, without regard and apparently without remembrance, as soon as their range becomes clearly defined and a promise of any considerable future development no longer clings to them. As long as a possibility exists, the intuitive is bound to it with thongs of fate. It is as though his whole life went out into the new situation. One gets the impression, which he himself shares, that he has just reached the definitive turning point in his life, and that from now on nothing else can seriously engage his thought and feeling. How- [p. 465] ever reasonable and opportune it may be, and although every conceivable argument speaks in favour of stability, a day will come when nothing will deter him from regarding as a prison, the self-same situation that seemed to promise him freedom and deliverance, and from acting accordingly. Neither reason nor feeling can restrain or discourage him from a new possibility, even though it may run counter to convictions hitherto unquestioned. Thinking and feeling, the indispensable components of conviction, are, with him, inferior functions, possessing no decisive weight; hence they lack the power to offer any lasting. resistance to the force of intuition. And yet these are the only functions that are capable of creating any effectual compensation to the supremacy of intuition, since they can provide the intuitive with that judgment in which his type is altogether lacking. The morality of the intuitive is governed neither by intellect nor by feeling; he has his own characteristic morality, which consists in a loyalty to his intuitive view of things and a voluntary submission to its authority, Consideration for the welfare of his neighbours is weak. No solid argument hinges upon their well-being any more than upon his own. Neither can we detect in him any great respect for his neighbour's convictions and customs; in fact, he is not infrequently put down as an immoral and ruthless adventurer. Since his intuition is largely concerned with outer objects, scenting out external possibilities, he readily applies himself to callings wherein he may expand his abilities in many directions. Merchants, contractors, speculators, agents, politicians, etc., commonly belong to this type.

Apparently this type is more prone to favour women than men; in which case, however, the intuitive activity reveals itself not so much in the professional as in the social sphere. Such women understand the art of utilizing every social opportunity; they establish right social con- [p. 466] nections; they seek out lovers with possibilities only to abandon everything again for the sake of a new possibility.

It is at once clear, both from the standpoint of political economy and on grounds of general culture, that such a type is uncommonly important. If well-intentioned, with an orientation to life not purely egoistical, he may render exceptional service as the promoter, if not the initiator of every kind of promising enterprise. He is the natural advocate of every minority that holds the seed of future promise. Because of his capacity, when orientated more towards men than things, to make an intuitive diagnosis of their abilities and range of usefulness, he can also 'make' men. His capacity to inspire his fellow-men with courage, or to kindle enthusiasm for something new, is unrivalled, although he may have forsworn it by the morrow. The more powerful and vivid his intuition, the more is his subject fused and blended with the divined possibility. He animates it; he presents it in plastic shape and with convincing fire; he almost embodies it. It is not a mere histrionic display, but a fate.

This attitude has immense dangers -- all too easily the intuitive may squander his life. He spends himself animating men and things, spreading around him an abundance of life -- a life, however, which others live, not he. Were he able to rest with the actual thing, he would gather the fruit of his labours; yet all too soon must he be running after some fresh possibility, quitting his newly planted field, while others reap the harvest. In the end he goes empty away. But when the intuitive lets things reach such a pitch, he also has the unconscious against him. The unconscious of the intuitive has a certain similarity with that of the sensation-type. Thinking and feeling, being relatively repressed, produce infantile and archaic thoughts and feelings in the unconscious, which may be compared [p. 467] with those of the countertype. They likewise come to the surface in the form of intensive projections, and are just as absurd as those of the sensation-type, only to my mind they lack the other's mystical character; they are chiefly concerned with quasi-actual things, in the nature of sexual, financial, and other hazards, as, for instance, suspicions of approaching illness. This difference appears to be due to a repression of the sensations of actual things. These latter usually command attention in the shape of a sudden entanglement with a most unsuitable woman, or, in the case of a woman, with a thoroughly unsuitable man; and this is simply the result of their unwitting contact with the sphere of archaic sensations. But its consequence is an unconsciously compelling tie to an object of incontestable futility. Such an event is already a compulsive symptom, which is also thoroughly characteristic of this type. In common with the sensation-type, he claims a similar freedom and exemption from all restraint, since he suffers no submission of his decisions to rational judgment, relying entirely upon the perception of chance, possibilities. He rids himself of the restrictions of reason, only to fall a victim to unconscious neurotic compulsions in the form of oversubtle, negative reasoning, hair-splitting dialectics, and a compulsive tie to the sensation of the object. His conscious attitude, both to the sensation and the sensed object, is one of sovereign superiority and disregard. Not that he means to be inconsiderate or superior -- he simply does not see the object that everyone else sees; his oblivion is similar to that of the sensation-type -- only, with the latter, the soul of the object is missed. For this oblivion the object sooner or later takes revenge in the form of hypochondriacal, compulsive ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation. [p. 468]



Web Source: Classics in the History of Psychology -- Jung (1921/1923) Chapter 10
 

Mal12345

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I don't think any represents pessimism to me. Could you please explain your question?

My shadow (or what some call a mirror) type is Te. I am pessimistic about my ability to accomplish things in the realm of Te, such as applying Te logic, or performing in a Te manner (as in leading and controlling in the external world). If your shadow/ mirror type is Fe, then you will be pessimistic about your ability in the realm of Fe accomplishments which would typically have to do with getting along well in the social realm and following social norms.
 

Dox

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My shadow (or what some call a mirror) type is Te. I am pessimistic about my ability to accomplish things in the realm of Te, such as applying Te logic, or performing in a Te manner (as in leading and controlling in the external world). If your shadow/ mirror type is Fe, then you will be pessimistic about your ability in the realm of Fe accomplishments which would typically have to do with getting along well in the social realm and following social norms.

Oh.

Yeah, I feel I have pretty suckish Fe. But tbh I'm not even sure if it's in my first four functions or last four. For Fi.. I don't even know.

My MBTI will forever be NOOB.
 

Patrick

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Oh.

Yeah, I feel I have pretty suckish Fe. But tbh I'm not even sure if it's in my first four functions or last four. For Fi.. I don't even know.

My MBTI will forever be NOOB.
Don't be so hard on yourself. I just read this whole thread, and I get the impression you already know more than most who've replied (or you at least have a more balanced attitude about it than most).

In case it'll help, here's a link to an article that might help you figure out Fe and Fi (I'd take it with a grain of salt, but some parts of it may resonate with you or answer a question on your mind):
Introverted Feeling (Fi) vs. Ti, Ni, & Fe
 

Mal12345

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Oh.

Yeah, I feel I have pretty suckish Fe. But tbh I'm not even sure if it's in my first four functions or last four. For Fi.. I don't even know.

My MBTI will forever be NOOB.

Your MBTI is INFP.
 

Destiny

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Oh.

Yeah, I feel I have pretty suckish Fe. But tbh I'm not even sure if it's in my first four functions or last four. For Fi.. I don't even know.

My MBTI will forever be NOOB.


The difference between Fe and Fi is that Fe judge people based on their actions while Fi judge people based on the intentions behind their actions.

If an Fe type sees someone steal for example, they will immediately judge and condemn that person because according to an Fe type what that person did is inappropriate whereas the Fi type will try to figure out the intentions behind their actions and they will think to themselves, "Why did that person steal? Is it because they have some financial difficulty and they resort to stealing out of desperation?"

Both Fe and Fi will find stealing inappropriate, but the Fe type will judge and condemn that person immediately whereas the Fi type will take the time to think about that person's actions and figure out why that person resort to stealing.
 

Dox

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Don't be so hard on yourself. I just read this whole thread, and I get the impression you already know more than most who've replied (or you at least have a more balanced attitude about it than most).

In case it'll help, here's a link to an article that might help you figure out Fe and Fi (I'd take it with a grain of salt, but some parts of it may resonate with you or answer a question on your mind):
Introverted Feeling (Fi) vs. Ti, Ni, & Fe

Thanks for the link, I'll read it soon.

- - - Updated - - -

Your MBTI is INFP.

:mellow:
 

Dox

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The difference between Fe and Fi is that Fe judge people based on their actions while Fi judge people based on the intentions behind their actions.

If an Fe type sees someone steal for example, they will immediately judge and condemn that person because according to an Fe type what that person did is inappropriate whereas the Fi type will try to figure out the intentions behind their actions and they will think to themselves, "Why did that person steal? Is it because they have some financial difficulty and they resort to stealing out of desperation?"

Both Fe and Fi will find stealing inappropriate, but the Fe type will judge and condemn that person immediately whereas the Fi type will take the time to think about that person's actions and figure out why that person resort to stealing.

I may not be right, but this paints Fe rather unflatteringly..
My first reaction would be to judge them, but curiosity would lead me to think what was behind ther actions.. I would try to understand them. But ultimately, it's wrong to steal. So I know that because of some past experience, they have either compromised their own values or they have not developed it at all.
 
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Destiny

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I may not be right, but this paints Fe rather unflatteringly..
My first reaction would be to judge them, but curiosity would lead me to think what was behind ther actions.. I would try to understand them. But ultimately, it's wrong to steal. So I know that because of some past experience, they have either compromised their own values or they have not developed it at all.


My post above is based on what I heard from some Fe and Fi types so far, so I'm not trying to paint Fe types in a negative light. It's just that I often heard Fe types saying that a hierarchy system is important in society.

And I don't mean they judge people in a negative sense, but more like they are quicker to come to conclusions about a person's action because they have this strong need for hierarchy and their values tend to come from society rather than from themselves. What is right and what is wrong in their eyes, is based on what society deemed as right or wrong. So if they see a person doing something "wrong" for example, they will judge that person according to society's standards and then start reacting accordingly. See that guy there who cheated on his wife and a bunch of people yelling at that guy for cheating on his wife? That bunch of people are most likely strong Fe types.
Fi types doesn't believe in hierarchy system, hence, they are slower to come to conclusions about a person's actions, what is right and what is wrong is totally based on their own internal value system. So if they see a person doing something "wrong", they will still take the time to analyze where that person is coming from. Now if an Fi type sees a guy cheating on his wife, the Fi type will feel disgusted too, but the Fi type will also take the time to analyze where that guy is coming from, the Fi type will wonder why the hell did that guy cheat on his wife. The Fi type might even yell at that guy too, but if an Fi type yell at that guy, it's because the guy cheating on his wife violates the inner value system of the Fi type, and not because society deemed cheating as wrong.

Both Fe and Fi would have the same feelings and perhaps even the same reaction to the situation, but their motivations and their thoughts process would be slightly different.
 

Dox

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My post above is based on what I heard from some Fe and Fi types so far, so I'm not trying to paint Fe types in a negative light. It's just that I often heard Fe types saying that a hierarchy system is important in society.

And I don't mean they judge people in a negative sense, but more like they are quicker to come to conclusions about a person's action because they have this strong need for hierarchy and their values tend to come from society rather than from themselves. What is right and what is wrong in their eyes, is based on what society deemed as right or wrong. So if they see a person doing something "wrong" for example, they will judge that person according to society's standards and then start reacting accordingly. See that guy there who cheated on his wife and a bunch of people yelling at that guy for cheating on his wife? That bunch of people are most likely strong Fe types.
Fi types doesn't believe in hierarchy system, hence, they are slower to come to conclusions about a person's actions, what is right and what is wrong is totally based on their own internal value system. So if they see a person doing something "wrong", they will still take the time to analyze where that person is coming from. Now if an Fi type sees a guy cheating on his wife, the Fi type will feel disgusted too, but the Fi type will also take the time to analyze where that guy is coming from, the Fi type will wonder why the hell did that guy cheat on his wife. The Fi type might even yell at that guy too, but if an Fi type yell at that guy, it's because the guy cheating on his wife violates the inner value system of the Fi type, and not because society deemed cheating as wrong.

Both Fe and Fi would have the same feelings and perhaps even the same reaction to the situation, but their motivations and their thoughts process would be slightly different.

I think I understand what you mean now.

But what happens if a Fi type values respect for all people, and strongly dislikes people who cheat because it shows disrespect to the other person?

Or what if a Fi type has been cheated on in the past? Would they still hold back their judgements?
 

pluviophile

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I think I understand what you mean now.

But what happens if a Fi type values respect for all people, and strongly dislikes people who cheat because it shows disrespect to the other person?

Or what if a Fi type has been cheated on in the past? Would they still hold back their judgements?

I'm pretty new to all of this myself, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Ok, so, I value respect for all people and I strongly dislike when people cheat. I think it goes beyond disrespect. However, I would never say that I strongly dislike people who cheat. I would say I strongly dislike WHEN people cheat. Part of showing respect to all people is not judging them as completely useless or bad when they make mistakes. In the scenario, I would likely feel really bad for the person who got cheated on because I would be using Fi and relating that back to when I had been cheated on and how that made me feel. BUT, I would also feel bad for the cheater that everyone was yelling at because I would relate that back to times when I did something wrong and everyone made me feel judged and disliked.

So, I think that's Fi? It all goes back to my own inner feelings and values. Maaaaaybe it's kind of like Fi is saying, "I feel bad for you because I know how that would make me feel." where Fe would say, "I see you feel bad so I also feel bad." I'm not even sure if that's right though.

To answer your last question, that would probably depend on if the Fi type valued not being judgmental as much or more than they valued treating all people with respect. In some ways, I don't feel like the two can be separated. However, if I had to choose one, I'd say not judging people is more important to me. I have been cheated on, but I don't judge the person who did it as being bad as a whole, just that particular action.

Here are some things you might find helpful:

INFP vs INFJ: 5 Surprising Differences To Tell Them Apart : Personality Hacker

This is EXACTLY how I think:

 
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