Been thinking and thinking on this thread again ... ah my brain!
Yes, I see a lot of- what I call Pe bullying, but I don’t know what the hell it is- it just looks to me like people who have no clue how difficult something is making judgments about it cavalierly and feeling rather self righteous in doing so.
The word "judgements" seems key to me here ... I can see how a unvarnished Pe way of saying something seems "judgy" in this thread. Or maybe "decided" is a better term. Thinking data1 + Thinking data2 + Thinking data3 = Conclusion. We smack that down and it sure looks like a fact, when in fact, it's still a challengeable question: Does Thinking data1 + Thinking data2 + Thinking data3 = Conclusion??? And you're right, to cease the collection of new data to formulate any kind of Conclusion does seem presumptuous even (that's why we like stories). We don't have
all the data, and in fact to INFJ eyes, there's so much MORE data that the conclusions drawn seem - preposterous. And not only preposterous here in this instance, but also hurtful and insulting because it relates to elements of the INFJ identity.
To us, it doesn't feel like we are making judgements ... more like throwing around hypotheses. ??
Could it be that Fe-Ti folks do the same thing too, a kind of parallel collecting for Emo Data: Emo data1 + Emo data2 + Emo data3 = Conclusion. Then, NFP's anyway, we get pissy when Emo data is limited to those kinds of parameters too. Remember that time I shared the story about my INFJ friend at work, who was going through a divorce, and how Tilty said it should have been so OBVIOUS to me that if my friend performed poorly in a meeting that it was because she was embroiled in some drama related to the divorce? I find it presumptuous to limit my data in that circumstance, and it's insulting even to consider that EVERY time she might perform poorly, it's going to be because of the Divorce. It's a far more complex equation than that above.
It does seem parallel to you objecting to us simplifying yours. What do you think? And not just tossing around ideas, but toying with ideas that ... well, are controversial and even ridiculous when contemplating the entire human experience we all share.
My terms here might not work either (Emo vs Thinking data) - thinking out loud disclaimer.
I can only assume they don’t begin to know the buttons they’re pushing- because no one with any sense would push those buttons while simultaneously accusing the very same people of not having remorse (because continuing to push the buttons demonstrates an almost alarming lack of remorse in itself).
I'm still here in thread but with much trepidation at this point. I can certainly see the increasing danger signals, and feel the strong emotions, but frankly I confess I do not know
exactly why. Toying with value-neutral Thinking data seems as innocuous to me as toying with value-neutral Emotional data to you. I want to take care of your emotions, but I know that's not what you need exactly, but I don't know what to do either.
Can you state what you need in a situation like this? Space? Time? Assurances? Apologies?
That said, I do care deeply that it pains the INFJ's here. I don't want to hurt anyone or cause anyone torment.
….it does make me angry when I see TiltyRed’s post, or to see SilkRoad get upset, because I totally understand where it’s coming from.
Do you approve of Tilty's addition to this thread or does it make you angry that she lashed out like that? Since I'm in this thread too, and not an INFJ, I believe I've just been told I am a "blood sucking, mind-fucking, emotionally deaf and dumb, clueless, neurotic, noodly-headed biatch."
Does Tilty's post give INFJ's a chuckle that Tilty just "said her thing"? To me, all it really does is promote an atmosphere of hostility and tie into OA's post, exactly what people are pushing against here.
To me, Tilty's post says the following: PostFromPB1 + PostFromPB2 + PostFromPB3 = Biatch.
And I object to that as much as how OA's post appears to posit (esp to INFJ eyes): Trait1 + Trait2 + Trait3 + Trait 4 = INFJ.
~end part 1