Zarathustra
Let Go Of Your Team
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2009
- Messages
- 8,110
Not really.
That analysis is a little crude, too, cuz it assumes the NT isn't good with his tertiary/inferior F function...
It's skipping the auxiliary to work on the tertiary that results in an unbalanced dom+tert loop, not use of the tertiary itself (which is not inherently unhealthy.)
I don't have a problem with Sensors; I just think it's funny when someone with tertiary/inferior Ni lectures INTJs about "seeing the big picture"...He implied that the reason we're not understanding him is that he's "zooming out to the big picture" but the rest of us aren't...which I find unlikely.
I like it.
And I know this is not exactly your cup of tea, but what would you think of a shadow function used... ok, fuck it. I'm just gunna be specific, cuz this question obviously is based off my own experience:
If you think an INTJ could combine Ni and Fi in a healthy manner, then what do you think of an INTJ using Ni and his Ti shadow in conjunction with one another? Assuming he is able to access both his Ne and Ti to a degree relatively similarly to that of a tertiary function? (Just play along, Sim...)
It might be "funny" or "unlikely" to a dilettante like yourself, but it's not funny to those more experienced like Linda Berens and Judy Robb.
And don't weasel out of it by claiming only Tert Ni. We both know you mean any SP.
Big Picture - Many Artisans-SPs are interested in the big picture.
Full article here:
How to tell iNtuiting from extraverted Sensing | Interstrength Associates
For the record, Sim, you have no way of knowing what functions poki has developed, and that includes his Tert.
Your constant reference to people's function orders as rigid absolutes serves no purpose, but to stymie personal growth and understanding.
I have news for you, there are some Jungians who think the Dom/Aux have the same attitude. Yeah, you read that right.
So while some are having pissing matches about the Tert's attitude, there are people who don't even think the Dom/Aux is carved in stone.
Just because a single theory is more well-known than others, doesn't mean it's accurate.
Just because a single theory is used more than others, doesn't mean it's accurate either.
There are many different theories, yet you cling to only one - like Linus and his little security blanket.
And as far as your other comment about ENTPs having the same weaknesses,
what is a weakness of yours could be a weakness of any human being.
It might be "funny" or "unlikely" to a dilettante like yourself, but it's not funny to those more experienced like Linda Berens and Judy Robb.
And don't weasel out of it by claiming only Tert Ni. We both know you mean any SP.
Big Picture - Many Artisans-SPs are interested in the big picture.
Full article here:
How to tell iNtuiting from extraverted Sensing | Interstrength Associates
For the record, Sim, you have no way of knowing what functions poki has developed, and that includes his Tert.
Your constant reference to people's function orders as rigid absolutes serves no purpose, but to stymie personal growth and understanding.
I have news for you, there are some Jungians who think the Dom/Aux have the same attitude. Yeah, you read that right.
So while some are having pissing matches about the Tert's attitude, there are people who don't even think the Dom/Aux is carved in stone.
Just because a single theory is more well-known than others, doesn't mean it's accurate.
Just because a single theory is used more than others, doesn't mean it's accurate either.
There are many different theories, yet you cling to only one - like Linus and his little security blanket.
And as far as your other comment about ENTPs having the same weaknesses,
what is a weakness of yours could be a weakness of any human being.
I have news for you, there are some Jungians who think the Dom/Aux have the same attitude. Yeah, you read that right.
So while some are having pissing matches about the Tert's attitude, there are people who don't even think the Dom/Aux is carved in stone.
Just because a single theory is more well-known than others, doesn't mean it's accurate.
Just because a single theory is used more than others, doesn't mean it's accurate either.
So? A lot of SJs are interested in American football. That doesn't make them any good at it.
I don't think shit is carved in stone. I think there are widely accepted interpretations which can be used in argumentation to further develop my personal model...of course, further developing or otherwise restructuring my model is, I understand, is dishonest and lazy in Te+Fi land.
I know you understand what I mean; you just refuse to grant any Ne-oriented idea potential validity, and believe TeNi to be an objectively superior approach. Neither of us is going to bend on this; it's an immutable difference in perspectives, just let it go already.
It's like you just deliberately refuse to engage in Ne-oriented thought.
And claiming to be ENTP doesn't make you good at anything either.
That includes seeing the big picture.
There you go again - MY MODEL. As if there is only one. More rigidity.
Ne? Son, yours is dead.
For as long as I have known you, you have put up walls to exclude theoretical possibilities.
Because in that head of yours, you don't think it's "logically consistent."
Welcome to the real world, pal. People are not logically consistent.
I, as opposed to you, am wide open to all possibilities regarding the human psyche.
I don't think there is just one model.
Look in the mirror and say that. Then you will be accurate.
The peculiar disconnect that nearly always happens between NTJs and NTPs. From the NTJ's standpoint: "He seems awfully attached to his model, as if it's the only possible one. There are so many possibilities he hasn't ruled out. His argumentation is simply unfair: he is choosing observations to stack the deck to favor his interpretation over all others. He seems oblivious to the complexity of the subject. He does not seem to know what he's doing."
From the NTP's standpoint: "I'm trying to point things out and draw distinctions in order to define a vocabulary that carves out some aspect of the subject matter. That would be forward progress. But he refuses to look. He keeps translating everything I say into some moronic vocabulary that he's already familiar with, where what I'm saying is a trivial goof. He seems completely stuck in his box."
For the record, Sim, you have no way of knowing what functions poki has developed, and that includes his Tert.
Your constant reference to people's function orders as rigid absolutes serves no purpose, but to stymie personal growth and understanding.
I have news for you, there are some Jungians who think the Dom/Aux have the same attitude. Yeah, you read that right.
So while some are having pissing matches about the Tert's attitude, there are people who don't even think the Dom/Aux is carved in stone.
Just because a single theory is more well-known than others, doesn't mean it's accurate.
Just because a single theory is used more than others, doesn't mean it's accurate either.
And as far as your other comment about ENTPs having the same weaknesses,
what is a weakness of yours could be a weakness of any human being.
The frustrating part is I know you guys get it on a deep level, especially in terms of the abstract concepts (probably even better than we do), but you refuse to define anything clearly before it's become empirically verified--simultaneously a strength and a weakness. It's like you guys understand what we're getting at but won't grant our models validity until shown Te-quality proof, which is sometimes advantageous (when the NTP model turns out to be wrong) and sometimes not (when NTP was quicker than you to make up an articulable explanation and start trying, and happened to get it right.)
...
NTJs always seem to skip a lot of the potentially interesting information in their search for that which can be externally applied--hence your frustration with NeTi's spider web thinking.
To be using Ne+Ti, you would need to really understand the value in understanding one precise set of conditions in as much total clarity as possible with no regard for the external applicability of that understanding, for no reason other than that the relationships that make up its internal structure are aesthetically appealing.
I defend your thinking against Jaguar, and then you have to go writing things like these...
It's a wicked web we weave...
I defend your thinking against Jaguar, and then you have to go writing things like these...
It's a wicked web we weave...
Well, to be honest, I'm more interested in how I use Ni and Ti together (I would say that I engage in highly advanced spiritual thinking that is likely a combination of Ni and Ti, not Ni and Te).
I'm also potentially interested, although less so, in how I might use Ne and Te together (although I think it would be hard for me to distinguish between Ne+Te and Se+Te [I think I might use one of these two combinations when I drink excessively, not quite sure which]).
I haven't really put much thought into using Ne and Ti together.
Given all of the above, that's why my question was about Pi and Ji and Pe and Je functions working in tandem, even in cases in which one of the two is a shadow function.
(Btw, I think you misunderstood what I meant when I said that the two shadow functions that I believe I use are relatively close in strength to my tertiary, but I'm not sure... I was referring to Ne and Ti being of relatively equal strength/maturity as my Fi... it seemed like you might have thought I was referring to my tertiary shadow function...?)
So, what can you recommend?
So, what can you recommend?