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  1. #1
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Default Please help type me.

    So firstly id like to apologise to those who have seen me already make a thread about typing me before, it was made in a strange moment that I cannot really explain, but if a moderator is willing to delete it that would be nice.

    But ive recently become a little uncertain. Up until this uncertainty I had considered myself to possess the cognitive functions of an INFJ. However while I can identify Ni and Ti, or what I believe Ni and Ti to be, I cannot identify Fe as a strong prescence in my evaluations.

    Of course there are different theories floating about. Only recently I read something posted on a different forum about the nature of the tertiary function and how, rather than being inferior to the auxiliary, they sit side by side with each other as a couple of counterbalances to the dominant. Then of course there are cognitive function tests which put across the idea that we possess all 8 but to different degrees.

    Lasty of course there is MBTI, a series of grouped letters designed to identify a person's 4 most prevelent functions as part of a catagory of 16 types for measuring behaviour.

    Obviously there are probably many other intepretations, but my main problem is: Is the problem with my understanding of MBTI or MBTI itself?

    Sorry there arent many questions for people to go off to help type me. Basically im a rather perfectionistic person who can get a bit intense and yet at the same time I possess a rather faecitious sense of humour, sometimes I do wind people up and push buttons, but I usually only do this to friends and they know im joking.

    Im usually not a part of any group im with but I often feel like I should be. I feel obligated to join in and laugh or say the right thing at the right time in terms of social convention, but I also feel that if I did this I would lose some part of me that is me so I dont always go along with it.

    As a child I was quite nervous and prone to lashing out verbally and physically at those around me, especially if they invaded my personal space. People have noted, especially my parents, that they could not read me in terms of body language or facial expression, my dad in particular expressed a bit of a worry that he could never tell what I was going to do in a situation and it made him nervous.

    Ironic considering that his temper and outbursts make me feel the same way. Im not a conflictual person and sometimes this is to a fault. Oddly these days it is as if ive learnt to be more relaxed and opened up, because im far more visually expressive than I used to be.

    However I always feel an obligation to help my closest friends and family if they are in trouble, it has been a great source of internal conflict for me that on the one hand is this ideal but on the other is the reality that I am selfish and sometimes I dont like getting dragged into other people's drama. Unfortunately I rarely express this.

    Im not sure if I see things in a systemic or logical way, or not. I know that gender bias and roles make us believe we possess traits that often we dont. I have especially noticed many unhealthy male personalities who are adamant that they are using rational, sensible logic, as opposed to the reality of using sensible, rational values. Of course being unhealthy these are more often expressed as irrational and selfish values.

    But then again we all possess thinking and feeling so an unhealthy thinker might confuse their flawed logic as being the most sensible choice when in reality it is out of touch with those around him/her. Ok im going off topic.

    Im at my happiest when im barely succeeding, I enjoy doing small out of the way jobs because I cannot visualise any future in which I do well in a professional career. This is mainly because I am, for the most part, opposed to competitiveness in life. The competitiveness of the job market, intelligence and life in general seems abhorrent to me.

    Not to mention as long as im doing something I dont have my parents worrying about my future and adding to my own worries. Most of my hobbies are both group and personal based. I enjoy painting models and playing warhammer as ive mentioned far too often on here and I frequently visit two different clubs.

    To me this is like a social top up, ive spent 5 days in the house, but now I can go out and socialise for just long enough for me and then retreat back home to recharge my batteries. However if you were to meet me in such an environment you would find quite a loud and expressive personality who seems to delight in the company of others.

    However I cant escape my need for alone time, I feel both energised by people and by spending time with my thoughts. When younger I would spend months at time by myself without anyone around me and I felt great, but then again I feel great when around others, although at first I am extremely shy in a new environment. I do sometimes miss social cues as well, which is odd because secretly I define myself via others, I have my own individual thoughts but what I really desire is group affirmation and validation, this might be because ive never had it.

    I also seem to be a little argumentative without really realising it, sometimes I look at something online or go over what someone has said in my mind and it doesn't fit, there is some flaw or error on their part that I believe ive spotted. However I often get this wrong or jump the gun, im not crusader of rights though, it is merely that I feel strongly about incorrectness or what I perceive as shortsightedness when it comes to other's opinions on things or how they put them forwards.

    Of course for every time I do argue there are 500 times im not. I usually overlook things and pretend to ignore them so as to preserve some harmony when im around others. However I also get quite annoyed when someone is completely ignoring what are the rigid and realistic facts of a situation, there are some facts you cannot argue against and which have nothing to do with reliability, yet some people argue against them anyhow which I cannot understand. Often it isn't a case of maybe's or might be's it truely just IS. In that sense I suppose you could say I dislike it when people look for grey reasoning where there is none.

    Although a bit of a grey reasoner myself, I can usually judge when it is best to admit the subtleties of a situation or discussion and when it is best to adhere to the facts.

    I also get really annoyed when I fail or do not succeed to my own level of standards, I also become frustrated and angry when I dont see an immediate solution to something, whether tangible or not.

    I suppose im just a contradiction, many of my morals are personal and subjective, this might seem dangerous to some but im extremely objective on the important ones, the ones which concern life and death.
    I always seem to be swinging back and forth across spectrums, never settling, which is odd because this is what I do naturally.

    That cant be right can it? I suppose my main goal in life is to live and die, not in a simplistic sense, but I dont seem to have the same ties others do, friends and family come and go but I exist.

    I want to hold onto them, but I dont know how. Essentially I want to be free of worries, guilts and prejudices, I want to scream 'FUCK IT' and just enjoy my life in my own way and hopefully bring the ones I love along for the ride. But I dont possess the charisma or charm needed for this and I doubt I ever will.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #2
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    I read about half your post. I think anxiety can do interesting things to a person's interpersonal skills. It makes you hyperaware of certain things happening, responses, attitudes. It also frustrates your ability to relate and feel a sense of belonging. So you know everything that's happening (usually, with a slight bias towards self-rejection) but you don't know how to deal with that.

    I don't know what else to tell you. I don't invest that much stock in typology in general. Trying to label myself never sounded as important as trying to understand what was actually happening. Typology is an attempt to generalize and classify something that may not really be designed for crude classification. It's like trying to classify people as Republicans and Democrats. Sometimes it'll be obvious, but there's nothing to say that people can hold views from both sides. Classifying an Independent as Republican because they have 51 conservative views and 49 liberal views doesn't really make sense.

    The same goes for typology. You have different traits and habits that come out at different times. Classifying yourself, especially when it's difficult, isn't such a big achievement.

  3. #3
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I read about half your post. I think anxiety can do interesting things to a person's interpersonal skills. It makes you hyperaware of certain things happening, responses, attitudes. It also frustrates your ability to relate and feel a sense of belonging. So you know everything that's happening (usually, with a slight bias towards self-rejection) but you don't know how to deal with that.

    I don't know what else to tell you. I don't invest that much stock in typology in general. Trying to label myself never sounded as important as trying to understand what was actually happening. Typology is an attempt to generalize and classify something that may not really be designed for crude classification. It's like trying to classify people as Republicans and Democrats. Sometimes it'll be obvious, but there's nothing to say that people can hold views from both sides. Classifying an Independent as Republican because they have 51 conservative views and 49 liberal views doesn't really make sense.

    The same goes for typology. You have different traits and habits that come out at different times. Classifying yourself, especially when it's difficult, isn't such a big achievement.
    This is true, but confirmation would be nice. I already spent months trying to understand and get down the functions, going for the belief that the application of them for helping others and yourself and the underlying, intangible, reasons behind why people might see and understand things a certain way.

    But it is nice to get a bit of feedback as well, not necessarily for the purposes of classification. Just so it is clear I am not aiming to fit into some accepted stereotype of what a type is considered to be, nor will I change who I am to fit in with that.

    This is about breaking apart who I am and how I work.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #4
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    This is true, but confirmation would be nice. I already spent months trying to understand and get down the functions, going for the belief that the application of them for helping others and yourself and the underlying, intangible, reasons behind why people might see and understand things a certain way.

    But it is nice to get a bit of feedback as well, not necessarily for the purposes of classification. Just so it is clear I am not aiming to fit into some accepted stereotype of what a type is considered to be, nor will I change who I am to fit in with that.

    This is about breaking apart who I am and how I work.
    I gotcha. I'm not sure asking for confirmation makes sense though, given how clumsy typology is in genital. Good luck though.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Oeufa's Avatar
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    Is it possible you're confusing Ti and Te? If so, you could be INTJ.
    Ti>Ne>Si>Te>Fi>Ni>Se=Fe

    And yes, there are such things as INTPs who overuse emoticons

  6. #6
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  7. #7
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oeufa View Post
    Is it possible you're confusing Ti and Te? If so, you could be INTJ.
    Could be, but I must admit my adherence to facts is subjective and I tend to use ones which support what I specifically want in an argument. In other words I tend to rationalise my personal subjectivities using objective data only where it suits me. It's a bit of a bad habit I had when younger, so I went out of my way to try and correct it and make sure I looked at the faults as well as the benefits of my thinking. Im not really sold on INTJ unless I am an INTJ who has developed a penchant for Fi due to life experience.

    In any case, im trying to look at this using the functions rather than type descriptions. < That's for everyone, not really anyone in particular.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Oeufa's Avatar
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    Maybe read a couple of different INTJ descriptions anyway and see - you never know!
    Ti>Ne>Si>Te>Fi>Ni>Se=Fe

    And yes, there are such things as INTPs who overuse emoticons

  9. #9
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oeufa View Post
    Maybe read a couple of different INTJ descriptions anyway and see - you never know!
    Heh, the only problem with descriptions is they can get filtered down to vague traits that anyone could possess, like "INTJ's are stubborn and rude arseholes who want to rule the world, or think they can" or "ESFP's are airheaded party animals who have no concept of introspection or deep evaluation".

    The descriptions can be useful if well written by people who understand the functions and then also if the people reading them also understand these same functions. But I will have a gander.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #10
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    So firstly id like to apologise to those who have seen me already make a thread about typing me before, it was made in a strange moment that I cannot really explain, but if a moderator is willing to delete it that would be nice.

    But ive recently become a little uncertain. Up until this uncertainty I had considered myself to possess the cognitive functions of an INFJ. However while I can identify Ni and Ti, or what I believe Ni and Ti to be, I cannot identify Fe as a strong prescence in my evaluations.

    Of course there are different theories floating about. Only recently I read something posted on a different forum about the nature of the tertiary function and how, rather than being inferior to the auxiliary, they sit side by side with each other as a couple of counterbalances to the dominant. Then of course there are cognitive function tests which put across the idea that we possess all 8 but to different degrees.

    Lasty of course there is MBTI, a series of grouped letters designed to identify a person's 4 most prevelent functions as part of a catagory of 16 types for measuring behaviour.

    Obviously there are probably many other intepretations, but my main problem is: Is the problem with my understanding of MBTI or MBTI itself?

    Sorry there arent many questions for people to go off to help type me. Basically im a rather perfectionistic person who can get a bit intense and yet at the same time I possess a rather faecitious sense of humour, sometimes I do wind people up and push buttons, but I usually only do this to friends and they know im joking.

    Im usually not a part of any group im with but I often feel like I should be. I feel obligated to join in and laugh or say the right thing at the right time in terms of social convention, but I also feel that if I did this I would lose some part of me that is me so I dont always go along with it.

    As a child I was quite nervous and prone to lashing out verbally and physically at those around me, especially if they invaded my personal space. People have noted, especially my parents, that they could not read me in terms of body language or facial expression, my dad in particular expressed a bit of a worry that he could never tell what I was going to do in a situation and it made him nervous.

    Ironic considering that his temper and outbursts make me feel the same way. Im not a conflictual person and sometimes this is to a fault. Oddly these days it is as if ive learnt to be more relaxed and opened up, because im far more visually expressive than I used to be.

    However I always feel an obligation to help my closest friends and family if they are in trouble, it has been a great source of internal conflict for me that on the one hand is this ideal but on the other is the reality that I am selfish and sometimes I dont like getting dragged into other people's drama. Unfortunately I rarely express this.

    Im not sure if I see things in a systemic or logical way, or not. I know that gender bias and roles make us believe we possess traits that often we dont. I have especially noticed many unhealthy male personalities who are adamant that they are using rational, sensible logic, as opposed to the reality of using sensible, rational values. Of course being unhealthy these are more often expressed as irrational and selfish values.

    But then again we all possess thinking and feeling so an unhealthy thinker might confuse their flawed logic as being the most sensible choice when in reality it is out of touch with those around him/her. Ok im going off topic.

    Im at my happiest when im barely succeeding, I enjoy doing small out of the way jobs because I cannot visualise any future in which I do well in a professional career. This is mainly because I am, for the most part, opposed to competitiveness in life. The competitiveness of the job market, intelligence and life in general seems abhorrent to me.

    Not to mention as long as im doing something I dont have my parents worrying about my future and adding to my own worries. Most of my hobbies are both group and personal based. I enjoy painting models and playing warhammer as ive mentioned far too often on here and I frequently visit two different clubs.

    To me this is like a social top up, ive spent 5 days in the house, but now I can go out and socialise for just long enough for me and then retreat back home to recharge my batteries. However if you were to meet me in such an environment you would find quite a loud and expressive personality who seems to delight in the company of others.

    However I cant escape my need for alone time, I feel both energised by people and by spending time with my thoughts. When younger I would spend months at time by myself without anyone around me and I felt great, but then again I feel great when around others, although at first I am extremely shy in a new environment. I do sometimes miss social cues as well, which is odd because secretly I define myself via others, I have my own individual thoughts but what I really desire is group affirmation and validation, this might be because ive never had it.

    I also seem to be a little argumentative without really realising it, sometimes I look at something online or go over what someone has said in my mind and it doesn't fit, there is some flaw or error on their part that I believe ive spotted. However I often get this wrong or jump the gun, im not crusader of rights though, it is merely that I feel strongly about incorrectness or what I perceive as shortsightedness when it comes to other's opinions on things or how they put them forwards.

    Of course for every time I do argue there are 500 times im not. I usually overlook things and pretend to ignore them so as to preserve some harmony when im around others. However I also get quite annoyed when someone is completely ignoring what are the rigid and realistic facts of a situation, there are some facts you cannot argue against and which have nothing to do with reliability, yet some people argue against them anyhow which I cannot understand. Often it isn't a case of maybe's or might be's it truely just IS. In that sense I suppose you could say I dislike it when people look for grey reasoning where there is none.

    Although a bit of a grey reasoner myself, I can usually judge when it is best to admit the subtleties of a situation or discussion and when it is best to adhere to the facts.

    I also get really annoyed when I fail or do not succeed to my own level of standards, I also become frustrated and angry when I dont see an immediate solution to something, whether tangible or not.

    I suppose im just a contradiction, many of my morals are personal and subjective, this might seem dangerous to some but im extremely objective on the important ones, the ones which concern life and death.
    I always seem to be swinging back and forth across spectrums, never settling, which is odd because this is what I do naturally.

    That cant be right can it? I suppose my main goal in life is to live and die, not in a simplistic sense, but I dont seem to have the same ties others do, friends and family come and go but I exist.

    I want to hold onto them, but I dont know how. Essentially I want to be free of worries, guilts and prejudices, I want to scream 'FUCK IT' and just enjoy my life in my own way and hopefully bring the ones I love along for the ride. But I dont possess the charisma or charm needed for this and I doubt I ever will.
    I love how you said that you don't use Fe, because you used Fe in the very first sentence. You sound like an IxFJ to me, and it would make sense if you used Ti because that would be your tertiary function. You also seem to be quite the negative, nervous nancy so I'm assuming you are a type 6 as well.

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