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  1. #21
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    School can be very tedious and frustrating for those of us who are SPs. I never wanted to tell my parents how tedious and frustrating and just plain boring school was because I didn't want to hurt their feelings. I would just go to school and sit there and look longingly out the window and not pay a whole lot of attention to the teacher, whom I couldn't understand anyway because I couldn't tune out any of the background noise, even the hum of the electricity (I have an auditory processing problem but that was undiagnosed until I was in my 30s). I liked art and music the best and could hardly wait to draw and paint and sing but we didn't do that anywhere enough in school..
    It was very stressful to experience that, day after day. I couldn't see an end to that tedium. Sometimes, I would go home and just start to cry. My mom asked me what was wrong, and I didn't have the words to tell her.
    When I was in ninth grade, I had a great history teacher. We were supposed to study China and India. The teacher gave us novels to read instead of textbooks. The novels made China and India feel real to me. I really liked the story telling and I was fascinated by the differentness of the Chinese and Indian cultures.
    An inspiring teacher can do wonders for students.
    I hope that your son is blessed with an inspiring teacher, who can connect with him in the way that my ninth grade history teacher connected with me.
    Best of luck to you and your son.
    me
    Last edited by Walking Tourist; 09-02-2009 at 08:28 PM. Reason: add a few words
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  2. #22
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    there are alternatives for education now, and it's not so taboo to get your GED. i think forcing kids to be in school all day all their lives is, seriously, a travesty and a waste. he is probably completely burned out from going so long as it is. running start is a great option too, but that's mainly for those who want to go to college, and it sounds like he doesn't. anyway, if he's dependable and responsible, there is always the homeschooling route, which would allow him to have a lot more freedom during his day, because doing the basics like math, english, science, history, etc. enough to pass his GED at 16, or whenever you take it, doesn't take 8 hours out of your day like in 'real' school, more like 4, and is a viable option. i wouldn't recommend it unless he likes his alone time, and can study independently. but i am serious when i say he can get a decent to great education at home with some really good books and references, and an occasional tutor if needed. just 2 more years, then he can pass the GED or opt to take some runnng start classes. he hasn't lost anything, but gained a damn lot of time for his artistic pursuits. he might appreciate the extra time for his own endeavors so much that he is more motivated in his studies, and actually enjoys learning!! homeschool books can exist of anything. there are so many fabulous history and science books out there, even if english and math are pretty much the same.

    EDIT: i have homeschooled all my kids always. and they are pretty hip and smart. my son is 16. he (and his other homeschooled friends) all are really smart but have spent, oh, maybe 3+ hours per day in school only (on average) for 9th and 10th grades. he is now in running start at the local junior college and loves it, i think more than he would going to high school all day. he's with students with an average age of 20+ and feels very comfortable among them.
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  3. #23
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchop View Post
    My 14 year ISFP (Wyatt) starts high school this year. I REALLY need the help of SP's on helping motivate him in school, help him CARE about school and proper "consequences" when he isn't holding up his responsibilities!

    He sees no need for school. Last year, 8th grade was pure hell. He has his own band formed and he is great with music. However, he's not interested in ANY programs at school with regard to music. Thankfully, we've been able to get him some electives like Art and Digital Photography (he's won awards for art and is a great photographer) to mix in with the rest of the classes or I think it would be all out war. He says he is planning to drop out when he's 16because he's going to make it big in music. We have of course talked until we're blue in the face on having a back-up plan until he "makes it big" (because if you don't agree exactly with him on him making it in music...he accuses you of not supporting him.) He is a bright kid and a great kid. I know that ISFPs don't love school and crave freedom. We've told him that he can hang with his band and whatever, as long as he keeps his grades up. The last semester of school last year, he pretty much spent at home because he was failing his classes. I had meetings with the teachers and principal (who were wonderful and very supportive) and we did as much as we could. I am so worried about him this year! He was really terrible at getting up in the morning last year too...at one point, I was just about ready to dump a bowl of icewater on his head (I literally had it suspended over his head) before he would get up. The only thing different this year is that he has a "girlfriend" who is in AP classes. She is a good influence on him and wants him there every day on time, so she can see him. But, I don't know how long that will last.

    I don't know how to make him care. We would be more than happy to help him get into an Art School after high school or pursue photography. You can't get even get a job at McDonald's these days without graduating! He is so stubborn and just won't listen. I guess I thought I would ask other SP's for advice on how to help him and what to do. What motivates you? Is school/education something that is valuable to you? How do we help you value education?

    As an ISFJ, I was always a model student. I was internally motivated and got excellent grades. Nobody ever had to remind me to do ANYTHING. Even now as I'm finishing college and juggling work and school and kids...teachers love me and my GPA is 3.5. I WANT to relate to him, but have a really hard time. I end up just wanting to bash my head against the wall!

    Thanks for any and all advice!
    I'm-not-an-SP,-but-I-can-still-relate.

    ...I-doubt-he's-not-listening-to-you,-and-I'm-sure-he's-hearing-every-word-you-say!


    What-instrument-does-he-play?

    Is-he-self-taught?...-That-might-be-why-he-isn't-interested-in-any-music-programs..-I-found-music-instruction-to-be-quite-monotonous...I-already-knew-the-basics...Try-to-get-him-interested-in-music-theory!

    Teenage-pipe-dreams,...-Mine-was-a-very-similar-scenario,-and-let-me-just-say,-it-ended-with-reality-slapping-me-in-the-face...-I-didn't-have-very-understanding-parents..Lol

    A-band-is-hard-work,-it's-really-competitive,-exhausting,-and-if-you're-not-in-the-right-scene,-you-get-weeded-out,...Quickly!.

    The-ice-water!...It'll-just-piss-him-off!
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  4. #24
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    And-as-for-the-dropping-out-of-school-part,-John-Lennon-thought-it-was-a-good-idea!
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  5. #25
    Senior Member Lambchop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    I'm-not-an-SP,-but-I-can-still-relate.

    ...I-doubt-he's-not-listening-to-you,-and-I'm-sure-he's-hearing-every-word-you-say!


    What-instrument-does-he-play?

    Is-he-self-taught?...-That-might-be-why-he-isn't-interested-in-any-music-programs..-I-found-music-instruction-to-be-quite-monotonous...I-already-knew-the-basics...Try-to-get-him-interested-in-music-theory!

    Teenage-pipe-dreams,...-Mine-was-a-very-similar-scenario,-and-let-me-just-say,-it-ended-with-reality-slapping-me-in-the-face...

    A-band-is-hard-work,-it's-really-competitive,-exhausting,-and-if-you're-not-in-the-right-scene,-you-get-weeded-out,...Quickly!.

    The-ice-water!...It'll-just-piss-him-off,-trust-me!
    Aphrodite Gone Awry, there is no way I could home school him. The thought has crossed my mind before and he has actually mentioned it as well though. We are barely making it on a 2 income household, I can't imagine struggling with just one. I have no prejudices against home schooled kids, we just can't afford it. I am feeling really bad, because he did just completely shut down last year and I didn't know what to do! I took him to a counselor, but he didn't really talk to her...and she was using the same approach that I was. I took him to the doctor and they thought he might be depressed, so they put him on anti-depressants. I tried so hard to get "in" and I couldn't. I realized it was my approach. So, I stopped pushing. I told him that he was responsible for his grades and put things more in his hands. He still had to regularly visit with the principal and counselor and sometimes had detention, but things got better at home. I have to tell you that reading all of this has almost made me have a new appreciation for him. I found myself at work today...thinking of him and then calling his cell phone to tell him that I was glad he had a plan for his life with his music. He said "Uhh...thanks, Mom. I'm in the middle of practicing with the band, so I gotta go. Bye-bye!" and I laughed a little. I remember one of his teachers in junior high went to a mini-concert that his band was playing at a local coffee shop and he really appreciated it and worked harder for her than the others. I think this year at conferences, I will discuss different teaching styles and let them know all the things I've been told on here.

    Prototype, this is probably an SJ thing...but why are there dashes between all of your words?

    He plays guitar and yes, he is self taught. He went from playing Guitar Hero 24/7 to picking up a guitar and starting to play it perfectly. I know that's why he's not interested in music programs.

    I know what you mean about it being hard to make it in the music industry...hence, my over need to help him prepare for possible alternatives. It is true that he can always go back and get his GED...and it's more PC now to have one. But, I stopped at the gas station the other day on the way to work and saw a help wanted sign and it said "high school graduate." I'm sure they would also take a GED, but employers aren't hiring drop outs really anymore. I always ask what he will do to feed himself while his music takes off and he says he doesn't have a problem working at McDonald's while it does...(although I think he will find that he hates it after awhile), but he may not even be able to do that without a diploma or GED.

    I guess I question the posters who say that he'll love the freedom as an adult. You are "free", but you have responsibilities that take the place of the freedom. Like bills and rent and food and car insurance and all of the other things that "free" adults have to deal with. Sure, I can choose whether or not to go to college, but I'm not just free to do whatever I want to. Although honestly...it's hard for me to relate to freedom. I became a mom at 16 and have been one ever since. I never really had "freedom" for all intensive purposes...so maybe I'm not relating correctly.

    So, if he drops out at 16 -- if he's not going to school, then I would expect him to contribute towards his living expenses at home. He would have to get a job and pay, like my older son does. When my older son goes back to being a full time college student, I cut him slack because he's in school.

    I don't know....I just want to do what's best for my son and help him succeed and be happy in life.

  6. #26
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchop View Post
    So, if he drops out at 16 -- if he's not going to school, then I would expect him to contribute towards his living expenses at home. He would have to get a job and pay, like my older son does. When my older son goes back to being a full time college student, I cut him slack because he's in school.
    Absolutely, he will understand and respond to that too as there are immediate tangible consequneces of that.

    I don't know....I just want to do what's best for my son and help him succeed and be happy in life.
    You seem to be doing pretty well so far, I'm glad you want the best for him, just keep in mind that ISFJ and ISFP can be superficially similar but they are actually fundamentally different and what he defines as success and happiness is likely to be very different from what would bring you happiness (he will probably value personal expression over financial security for example).
    Last edited by Quinlan; 09-03-2009 at 04:15 AM. Reason: Wording wasn't right.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Lambchop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    ISFJ and ISFP can be superficially similar but they are actually fundamentally different and what you define success and happiness as is likely to be very different from what would bring you happiness (he will probably value personal expression over financial security for example).
    Quinlan, thank you so much for pointing this out! You give excellent ISFP advice! Understanding that he values personal expression over other things helps a lot!

  8. #28
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchop View Post
    I always ask what he will do to feed himself while his music takes off and he says he doesn't have a problem working at McDonald's while it does...(although I think he will find that he hates it after awhile), but he may not even be able to do that without a diploma or GED.
    Uh, does he not think that working at McDonald's would be taking away time from his music too?

  9. #29
    Member ilovetrannies's Avatar
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    I meant to try and convince him to graduate and pass his classes the best that he can. Quitting would be much worse. I almost did. But thankfully, I didn't. I meant the freedom of an adult being worth the wait is that for some people having a job is much more satisfying, even if it sucks, than being in school.

    I'd rather be paid to be at a crappy job, than go through the hell that was high school. People grow up is what I'm saying.

    And I don't have freedom that I want. Oh, how I wish I could.

  10. #30
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    *facepalm*

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