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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1661
    Horst Jensen Array entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Thanks Tamske

    It's so easy to get bogged down in your own flaws, sometimes. Especially when you're a "fixer" sort of person! And can you get more perfectionistic than an Si type 1?

    Sorry -- I did read this post before! Really! I just got bogged down in a lot of things (thanksgiving break etc).

    Here are some of the most obvious ways that those functional differences manifest:
    - Stronger Te means that they're less likely to sit back and let people make the "wrong" decision -- whereas ISTJs are more likely to sit back and silently shake their heads at the person with the knowledge that they'd do it better.
    - Weaker Fi means that it isn't as well restrained in ESTJs -- an ISTJ in an argument would be more likely to recognize the effects of their emotions and end it by saying "that's just how I feel and let's agree to disagree", while an ESTJ with especially weak Fi (e.g. me a couple of years ago!) would fight that fight to the bitter end, absolutely convinced that they're correct and logic is on their side, and completely oblivious to their emotions. Also, ESTJs show their anger a lot more, and sometimes their rage explosions can be as scary and sudden as an ENFP bitchslap.
    - Stronger Ne means that their sense of humor is less linear, more random, and a lot goofier. If you put an ESTJ and an ISTJ in a room together, chances are that the one shaking his/her head at the other one's "bad jokes" will be the ISTJ. I'd say that ESTJ humor is more likely to be described as "random" and "ridiculous", and ISTJ humor as "sarcastic" and "deadpan". Also, ESTJs are a lot more excitable about things that they find interesting/fun -- and they evangelize that excitement with their Te. Example: "I saw this movie the other day and it was AMAZING! The special effects were awesome and the story was awesome and I am taking you to see it tomorrow! No arguments!! You have no better plans than watching this awesome movie."
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    Junior Member Array disco's Avatar
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    I just want to say that my dad is an ESTJ and I think he's the best ever I love how powerful he is, in being an informed and responsible citizen, in creativity and innovation, in getting things done...I wish I could get things done like he does! I do think he's a bit more paranoid-practical, but perhaps that's just his anxiety. He's remarkably open-minded and supports my wild ENFP ideas, as long as I'm taking concrete steps to realize them
    ♕ ENFP ♡ 7w6 sx/sp ♕

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    The smart car is pretty stupid...unless you look at it from a financial standpoint. The money you save on gas will more than cover your funeral bill when you get t-boned by an suv!

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    Wow I just stumbled upon this thread, which is amazingly long! What an awesome find. I'll have to go back and read the whole thing, because I'm an INFP and married to an ESTJ. Probably would do me a world of good in terms of insight. My hubby is the yummiest man on the planet, and has made me such a better person. The biggest thing that mystifies me about my ESTJ though is the sheer volume of negative, critical, lecturing, condescending, dominant, complaining, depressing, pessimistic, and mocking statements that come out of him. Last night I asked for 5 minutes of nothing negative (just about me or something about me, though, i.e. how I do something, anything I've done, something I don't do that I should, etc. - he could still be negative about anything else if he wanted), and he actually set a timer. He made it 2 minutes before forgetting he had set the timer and started talking about something that was "my fault." lol He then recovered and said "oh, forgot about the timer." I've developed very thick skin (we've been married almost ten years) and most of the time they either roll right off of me, or I integrate them into my personal growth. But sometimes the lopsided negativity gets the better of me and I start to feel "down" or get defensive and testy. Any advice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mia_infp View Post
    Wow I just stumbled upon this thread, which is amazingly long! What an awesome find. I'll have to go back and read the whole thing, because I'm an INFP and married to an ESTJ. Probably would do me a world of good in terms of insight. My hubby is the yummiest man on the planet, and has made me such a better person. The biggest thing that mystifies me about my ESTJ though is the sheer volume of negative, critical, lecturing, condescending, dominant, complaining, depressing, pessimistic, and mocking statements that come out of him. Last night I asked for 5 minutes of nothing negative (just about me or something about me, though, i.e. how I do something, anything I've done, something I don't do that I should, etc. - he could still be negative about anything else if he wanted), and he actually set a timer. He made it 2 minutes before forgetting he had set the timer and started talking about something that was "my fault." lol He then recovered and said "oh, forgot about the timer." I've developed very thick skin (we've been married almost ten years) and most of the time they either roll right off of me, or I integrate them into my personal growth. But sometimes the lopsided negativity gets the better of me and I start to feel "down" or get defensive and testy. Any advice?
    I'm amazed that an INFP is getting along with an ESTJ! Sounds like you're developing the sort of Te toughness that ESTJs often have. Hopefully he's properly developing his gentle, positive, optimistic Fi side, and if not, maybe you can keep on trying.
    Thinkist: not optimist nor pessimist. I am primarily competent in the enneagram.
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  6. #1666
    Senior Member Array ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Why are ESTJs so anal and perfectionistic about everything? This is a serious question... i have alot of ESTJ coworkers, and i have to say, every ESTJ is a potential headache. I mean jeez bruh how many procedures and step-by-step headache implementations do you have to pull through, to do a single simple task, because of their poor overly linear wired brains they are incapable of jumping to accurate conclusions, and instead have to resort to tedious processes just to do what we STPs do in a matter of minutes. And the worst of it all is also that they have to act all assholic when they lose, going on vicious rants behind our backs and acting all up. They simply can't take it from the superior ESTP race, they fail to acknowledge that their genetic capacity is very limited when compared to ours. We all know Ti beats Te, by a long shot.
    Last edited by ColonelGadaafi; 01-25-2012 at 04:07 AM.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  7. #1667
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo1590 View Post
    The smart car is pretty stupid...unless you look at it from a financial standpoint. The money you save on gas will more than cover your funeral bill when you get t-boned by an suv!
    So true.

  8. #1668
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia_infp View Post
    Wow I just stumbled upon this thread, which is amazingly long! What an awesome find. I'll have to go back and read the whole thing, because I'm an INFP and married to an ESTJ. Probably would do me a world of good in terms of insight. My hubby is the yummiest man on the planet, and has made me such a better person. The biggest thing that mystifies me about my ESTJ though is the sheer volume of negative, critical, lecturing, condescending, dominant, complaining, depressing, pessimistic, and mocking statements that come out of him. Last night I asked for 5 minutes of nothing negative (just about me or something about me, though, i.e. how I do something, anything I've done, something I don't do that I should, etc. - he could still be negative about anything else if he wanted), and he actually set a timer. He made it 2 minutes before forgetting he had set the timer and started talking about something that was "my fault." lol He then recovered and said "oh, forgot about the timer." I've developed very thick skin (we've been married almost ten years) and most of the time they either roll right off of me, or I integrate them into my personal growth. But sometimes the lopsided negativity gets the better of me and I start to feel "down" or get defensive and testy. Any advice?
    Huh! Interesting. ESTJs do have a negative streak -- thanks to Si perfectionism and an Fi/Te need to fix things that are "wrong" -- but it looks like your ESTJ is definitely more negative than most. How do those comments manifest themselves? Do they seem manager-ish (e.g. "I noticed that you were doing ___ -- but could you do __ instead? because it would really help. Thanks!"), or do they seem rude/frustrated (e.g. "Why aren't you doing __? You're supposed to do ___!")?

    As for advice -- I guess I agree with @Thinkist, that you should keep working on him. ESTJs can be a lot more flexible than they look, and if he can be made to realize how he comes across (in a nice, positive, NF-ish way ), then I think his negativity could be eased. But props to you, for dealing with it so well, for so long!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thinkist View Post
    I'm amazed that an INFP is getting along with an ESTJ! Sounds like you're developing the sort of Te toughness that ESTJs often have.
    You'd be surprised -- this thread (and this forum!) is full of NFs that married ESTJs (with positive results when the ESTJ is healthy). I have lots of INFJ friends and a very close ENFP friend -- and I would totally date an NF given the chance
    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post
    Why are ESTJ's so anal and perfectionistic about everything? This is a serious question... i have alot of ESTJ coworkers, and i have to say, every ESTJ is a potential headache. I mean jeez bruh how many procedures and step-by-step headache implementations do you have to pull through, to do a single simple task, because of their poor overly linear wired brains they are incapable of jumping to accurate conclusions, and instead have to resort to tedious processes just to do what we STP's do in a matter of minutes. And the worst of it all is also that they have to act all assholic when they lose, going on vicious rants behind our backs and acting all up. They simply can't take it from the superior ESTP race, they fail to acknowledge that their genetic capacity is very limited when compared to ours. We all know Ti beats Te, by a long shot.
    Firstly, I thought you were dead? Didn't the rebels kill you? I heard about it on the news.

    Secondly, considering the fact that you're still listed as ESTx and not ESTP, your "superior race" comments are especially entertaining

    Thirdly, ESTJs are perfectionistic because their Si database tells them how things have succeeded and failed in the past (and what exactly was done to cause those things to succeed or fail), their Ne makes general rules from that ("if I do this, it'll work out, and if I do this, it won't"), and their Te acts accordingly, with great zeal and strength of will (motivated by Fi)! My theory is: the more Si an ESTJ has, the more perfectionistic and detail-centric they are (meaning you must have lots of Si-heavy ESTJ coworkers, or mistyped ISTJ coworkers) -- and the more Ne an ESTJ has, the more chill they are (comparatively speaking).

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  9. #1669
    Senior Member Array ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Secondly, considering the fact that you're still listed as ESTx and not ESTP, your "superior race" comments are especially entertaining

    Thirdly, ESTJs are perfectionistic because their Si database tells them how things have succeeded and failed in the past (and what exactly was done to cause those things to succeed or fail), their Ne makes general rules from that ("if I do this, it'll work out, and if I do this, it won't"), and their Te acts accordingly, with great zeal and strength of will (motivated by Fi)! My theory is: the more Si an ESTJ has, the more perfectionistic and detail-centric they are (meaning you must have lots of Si-heavy ESTJ coworkers, or mistyped ISTJ coworkers) -- and the more Ne an ESTJ has, the more chill they are (comparatively speaking).
    I forgot to add heils and all that, and gestures declaring of superiority. Anyway i suspect that i'm ESTJ myself... and being cooky with my humour here.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  10. #1670
    Lay the coin on my tongue Array SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Hey EJCC,

    One of my favourite poets, Louis MacNeice, wrote the following about what he thought poets should be like.

    He was more or less describing himself, and yeah, it does sound a bit chauvinist especially as it implies poets are all men - it was another time, I guess. (his dates were 1907-1963). Do you think he might have been ESTJ? I think it very likely that he was.

    "I would have a poet able-bodied, fond of talking, a reader of the newspapers, capable of pity and laughter, informed in economics, appreciative of women, involved in personal relationships, actively interested in politics, susceptible to physical impressions."

    It might not be enough information, but even from what I know about his life he kind of seems ESTx to me and somehow ESTJ seems more likely than ESTP.
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