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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    So they're all sociopaths?
    Don't take my posts too seriously. Just laugh at them!

  2. #12
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Don't take my posts too seriously. Just laugh at them!
    Yeah note the edit.

  3. #13
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    asking that question is like asking 'what do you know?'..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  4. #14
    right on the left wing Philosorapteuse's Avatar
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    For me, my values and ethics definitely revolve around logic and even-handedness. In this context, that means being consistent in what I expect from people and from myself, being consistent in how I treat others (and more recently myself), delivering a basic level of respect to all humans regardless of who or what or where they are. If I apply it to them, I apply it to me. It means integrity, making decisions based on what I think/believe/forecast to be best in the world, not based on what's easiest for me or most pleasant. I'd rather be right than happy. It also, for me, means upholding a solid but spare moral framework that supports as many worldviews as possible without sacrificing structural integrity. Bits of it are flexible; bits of it aren't. As a default, it also means allowing space for right of reply/explanation when people have screwed up in my view, or have starkly differing viewpoints. I'm a relativist. There may be information there that I'm missing; without it how can I make a judgement? (Hello there Ne.)

    Notably, individuals may forfeit their right to this minimum from me by violating the principles that uphold it -- and, crucially, not caring, not responding appropriately to being pulled up on it, and not making any attempt to apologise or change. If you smash the foundations supporting the floor you stand on, don't look surprised when you fall, and don't look upset when I don't rush to catch you. I don't get a trampoline any more than you do. Them's the rules.
    "A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices." --William James

    I'd be a card-carrying sensotard, but I can't find the goddamn card.

  5. #15
    actinomycetes raindancing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Maybe I'm misinterpreting their value of emotions for "ignoring evidence". I'm thinking about an argument I had about jealousy with an ESFJ friend about her and her INFP husband. They both said that they are fine with limiting the amount of time the spend with the opposite gender for the sake of their partner's feelings. I argued that if you aren't doing anything and don't have ill intentions that you shouldn't have to limit your behavior. It came down to the idea that if she was feeling jealous she expects her partner to value those feelings and change their behavior. If I feel jealous I try to analyze my partners behavior to see if my feelings are founded or not and then change my emotional response. And we expect the same thing back. I guess feelings seem less real to me so when people use them to justify thoughts or actions it seems like they are ignoring reality while to her feelings are our experience of the world and therefore Are reality.
    When a person does something that makes me feel a certain way, I always analyze my emotions and and the situation to determine whether my feelings are reasonable. I have to understand the reason behind it, view it as objectively as possible. I can't imagine ever insisting someone change their behavior to suit my feelings... I would only ask that if I had found a valid reason outside my feelings. I guess in some sense I'm using my feelings like a warning system. A feeling flares up, I focus on it until I understand precisely what caused it, then I decide if anything needs to be done about it. If I realize a feeling is based on something false then it will (normally) unceremoniously disappear.
    “Can a man of perception respect himself at all?”
    ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

  6. #16
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Im not an INTP or even NT I dont think, but ive always disliked the pretention of trying to induce pseudo-consideration into others based upon hypothetical people who may or may not exist although most likely they do exist somewhere in the world.

    An example of this is: "Oh think about someone who is much worse off than you" or "there are people who would kill for your opportunities".

    So? Im not them, so my priorities will not be the same, life isn't fair and while im not saying we shouldn't even the playing field a little, these empty and shallow guilt statements do little to further any fairness you might wish to induce into the world. If anything it is more reprehensible than not considering them at all, because you dont care about them either, you are merely using them as a scapegoat for your own personal agenda....ie: trying to guilt trip me or someone else into doing something we may not want or see reason to do, just because you believe it is 'appropriate' or 'right' to do so.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Priori's Avatar
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    I would like to see myself as fair and benevolent but I let others fight their own battles and don’t let them walk over me. I believe that the world is harsh place, but I’m not going to crusade to make things better. I fight for those I care about, and for myself but I don’t do any harm to outsiders that isn’t necessary.
    INTP; 5w6
    The Intense, Cerebral Type:
    Perceptive, Innovative, Secretive, and Isolated

  8. #18
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    On how we're different from feelers. I think we have a greater tendency to doubt our beiliefs because we care about things being logical and also care aboutg able to prove this to others. My ESFJ friend can ignore evidence that goes against her beiliefs but I can't. I also think we have the tendency to take things to their logical extremes which causes us be very selective when it comes to defining our moral absolutes.
    I agree with this.
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  9. #19
    Member Maxcool131's Avatar
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    I dont do what could fuck me up ie I dont sell drugs cause I dont wanna die. I am rather selfish and only do things if in the end they benefit me if I decided to rape somone ( I see it as disgusting atm) I wouldnt have some sort of rules or something along those lines to stop so me in summary: I do what I want if it benefits me and will sacrifice if in the end it benefits me.

  10. #20
    actinomycetes raindancing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxcool131 View Post
    I dont do what could fuck me up ie I dont sell drugs cause I dont wanna die. I am rather selfish and only do things if in the end they benefit me if I decided to rape somone ( I see it as disgusting atm) I wouldnt have some sort of rules or something along those lines to stop so me in summary: I do what I want if it benefits me and will sacrifice if in the end it benefits me.
    dear god!

    (Appealing to a higher moral source while stating my views. Efficiency; an INTP value. )
    “Can a man of perception respect himself at all?”
    ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

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