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  1. #31
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violator View Post
    Find out what her type is, then go for the jugular. The goal is to make her seem like your assistant, not vice versa.
    You might find yourself a sheep, but not a team player and possible companion. Reversing the negative behavior only reasserts the fear that only one person can be good, and everyone else, no matter how skilled, can't be anything more than a slave. Power-hogging doesn't do much for team innovation, creativity, and productivity.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  2. #32
    Junior Member Violator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    You might find yourself a sheep, but not a team player and possible companion. Reversing the negative behavior only reasserts the fear that only one person can be good, and everyone else, no matter how skilled, can't be anything more than a slave. Power-hogging doesn't do much for team innovation, creativity, and productivity.
    You have to weed out the dead weight first. I've made mistakes in the past where I gave someone on my team the benefit of the doubt, and he messed up big time. He had a problem with playing for a team- tried to do everything himself, take all the credit etc.

    My first instincts about him was that he was a bad egg- then I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and later I was right by looking at his later actions, he proved that he is someone who couldn't be trusted.

  3. #33
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violator View Post
    You have to weed out the dead weight first. I've made mistakes in the past where I gave someone on my team the benefit of the doubt, and he messed up big time. He had a problem with playing for a team- tried to do everything himself, take all the credit etc.

    My first instincts about him was that he was a bad egg- then I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and later I was right by looking at his later actions, he proved that he is someone who couldn't be trusted.
    I agree that unfortunate events happen all the time to good people, though it doesn't look like a dead end for the OP (unless he gives up for good). When the stressful events are gone, people can go back to analyze the situation, and determine what is worth changing or keeping. It seems like such a waste of two-three years in friendship to stop early on.

    For your situation, it would be a good choice to let him sit out for the term, and rethink how he's impacting the team. However, the OP's team was strong enough to handle his problematic friend without loosing balance, so throwing out the source of trouble isn't absolutely necessary.

    Having worked with many dramatic individuals before, once you find/resolve the root-cause of their actions, they will start to participate and contribute more. I think what also makes a strong team is how they face the issues that arises -- either from the inside or out. The more positive groups will be proactive and solution-minded, aiming to move pass the obstacles while keeping everyone focused on cooperation instead mudslinging each other. Sometimes, an environment can make a huge difference in someone's behavior. Of course, there's the concern of limited resources, and that's why I think you were right in the second post.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  4. #34
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    that stinks. I know some ESFJs that assume EVERYBODY feels the way they do, and if not, they try to match up their feelings to a few particular people to the point where everybody else has to do it too. They will encourage you, but it often turns out they were convincing you to want something to make up for skills they couldn't own up to themselves, they will be your 'best friends' or 'confidants' but show any independence of thought, and they will make fun of what you want for yourself or try to plant doubt in your mind about other relationships. But I'm sure healthy ESFJs would be very nice people because they'd be more aware of where themselves end and others begin, I try to keep my mouth shut about other types unless I've met a healthy version but I haven't there. they can be what my dad would refer to as real users of people, didn't believe people that would use others actually existed until I ran into
    some. They can also be overprotective to the point where it backfires and makes the people they over protect targets for people that like to talk about
    everybody then they wonder why everyone thinks those people are strange when they can't do anything or get a word in without someone saying something,
    including being targets for bullies and taunting in social situations. Best way to deal with them is to not be offhanded, bc u will be blamed, but avoid too much
    interaction with them and try to work with others if possible, they are real manipulators.

  5. #35
    Junior Member Violator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    Having worked with many dramatic individuals before, once you find/resolve the root-cause of their actions, they will start to participate and contribute more. I think what also makes a strong team is how they face the issues that arises -- either from the inside or out. The more positive groups will be proactive and solution-minded, aiming to move pass the obstacles while keeping everyone focused on cooperation instead mudslinging each other. Sometimes, an environment can make a huge difference in someone's behavior. Of course, there's the concern of limited resources, and that's why I think you were right in the second post.
    Dramatic individuals don't belong in business school. We've had a talk with him, about his lack of vision, and his necessity to take credit for work that wasn't his own, and basically he couldn't take any criticism at all. His type ISFP- points to the fact that he can't hack it working with others in a team. Another member told me that he was some unappreciated pencil pusher in a large organization and his entire motivation was driven by trying to get all the glory himself. We all dumped him, so he's not in any project groups at the moment and has been blacklisted by all our investors.

    Last I heard, he is trying to program some iphone apps by himself. I think dead weights like him have to be identified immediately. They really have to be taught a lesson, like a bug to be stepped on.

  6. #36
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violator View Post
    They really have to be taught a lesson, like a bug to be stepped on.
    Spoken like a true ENTJ.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  7. #37
    Senior Member JHBowden's Avatar
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    How in the future can I best deal with these control freak people?
    Say what's on your mind. We're dealing with just words, right?

    And don't take Violator's advice. Isn't this business? Then pursue your own interests, and never take events personally-- if we're going out of our way to teach other people moral lessons, then we're taking our eyes off the ball.

  8. #38
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    I see benefits to both sides of the argument. I know when I'm by myself in the shower I imagine myself calling out that girl, being tough and all, and saying what's on my mind ("You're just making a fool of yourself if you keep acting mean to me that way!").

    But where I went wrong was to be discouraged by these setbacks and withdrew my enthusiasm for the class. I had ungodly amount of work compared to others on the team, and with this ES(F/T)J girl bullying me like that, I had no desire to contribute more than what's asked of me. I basically became like an order-taking worker, doing what people told me to do and didn't want to do any more of it. I knew some people other than the girl were dissatisfied with how much contribution I had to the project. The EN(F/T)J guy was probably my only ally in the team.

    The peer evaluations were turned in to the teacher a few days ago, I ended up with a B- in the course (I'm not too surprised, it's true that others took a lot more responsibilities and busy work of compiling the report/putting together the powerpoint, etc., so in retrospect, I do perhaps deserve a lower grade. But more or so I'm just relieved that it's over.)

    Maybe my silent attempt to not bring out the issue backfired. Maybe it was simply because I physically stretched myself too thin this semester. I don't know. But as many of you here have suggested, I really wanted to address the underlying issue that girl had with me, whether it's her thinking I didn't do a good job, or it was something more personal, I don't know.

    But where I went wrong was feeling discouraged and sweeping the problem under the rug. I thought it was a noble way to keep myself out of trouble. I didn't have the capacity to deal with any drama at the time (I was getting by with 4-5 hr sleep every day for an entire month), so I guess it was a lose-lose situation for me either way. But in the future, I will make sure to learn from this and speak up before I let her turn the majority of the team against me (and me feeling guilty/discouraged, thus contributing even less... hence, the vicious cycle).

    ************************************************** ************************************************** ****************

    On a slightly different but related note, I learned through this project that business is probably 1/3 of innovation/creativity/original thinking, and 2/3 of paperwork filling, making pretty power point, creating outlines/timetables, make things presentable and package them nice. It seemed like we arrived at our conclusion/recommendations within minutes of looking at the collected data. The remaining 70% of the time was spent discussing in what order we present our findings (the 5C's, 4P's, and any other business frameworks/jargon) in our final powerpoint deck.

    I've always thought those latter 2/3 of the work was boring. What I'm naturally good at is the first 1/3, finding relevant data, extracting useful information, performing different "analyses" and making suggestions. I get scared if people volunteered me to write the executive summary, to write this, write that....ahhh :-(

    But it's the latter 2/3 that takes up the most time, and I think that's also part of the reasons why people underestimated (I think) my portion of the contribution. I pulled up many documents and reports that other people based their research on, but when it was time to write out outlines/executive summaries/final report, I didn't take an active role to go above and beyond. For one thing, I couldn't because of other academic requirements, but even if I did, I probably wouldn't do a good job at it as the ES(T/F)J girl did.

    I know my strengths are in data analysis and coming up with proper recommendations. And the personal attacks aside, I do admire her ability to keep things on track and organized. But it seems like her strengths are a lot more readily visible and appreciated in a group work setting often found in business. What can people like me do to make sure we don't get our efforts bogged down by people with other sets of strengths?

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