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Thread: MBTI and traits

  1. #1
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    Default MBTI and traits

    Below I've described my understanding of MBTI and the impressions that I've seen each letter associated with (reference):


    E/I:
    1) Spend majority of time alone vs engaged with others.
    2) Talking more vs less
    3) Interests are focused outward vs inward
    4) Tendency to be center of attention vs staying in background


    N/S:
    1) Tendency towards creativity vs practicality
    2) Interested in ideas vs facts
    3) Tendency to daydream
    4) Interested in theoretical vs concrete
    5) Tendency to think for yourself vs accept the thoughts of others


    T/F:
    1) Interested in delivering facts vs feelings
    2) Ability to separate emotions from logic
    3) Ability to recognize that logic is contrived
    4) Sensitivity, ability to relate
    5) Measure of dominance
    6) Tendency to avoid conflict


    P/J
    1) Open minded ("percieving") vs closeminded ("judging")
    2) Prefer to explore vs compile
    3) Measure of responsibility
    4) Tendency to organize
    5) Prefer to contribute/follow/compete with others vs lead others


    The point of this post is that all the letters are associated with multiple impressions, and some of those impressions may only be loosely connected. Hence, this can lead to confusion when trying to figure out your own type.
    Last edited by Matt22; 09-04-2007 at 06:12 PM. Reason: ew, unpolished and controversial

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    ^ That was just written for me to organize my thoughts. No other point.

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    and there we have it a true J
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    Jung Test Results
    Extroverted (E) 63.16% Intuitive (N) 60.53% Feeling (F) 84.38% Perceiving (P) 87.1% ~Your type is: ENFP

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    (Below was inspired by what I've seen from looking up GetAltitude.com--don't ask)

    I've always wondered where some people get their entrepreneurial spirit from. Despite being moderately interested in the history of companies, I've never really had that desire to form my own. In fact, when I'm at work, I feel a tendency to try please my bosses. I want to make them happy, be proud of my work, and move my way up through the company. It's almost a feeling of wanting to serve.

    This of course, conflicts with my J personality of wanting to be in charge. So while I'm standing at my boss' office and eagerly hoping to be led into something cool, I'm also not keeping solid eye contact with him. This is because solid eye contact comes naturally for me when I'm the one directing the conversation. It's wierd to have these contradictory things going on.

    And to make things even wierder, I suspect that there are plenty of P's who do have that entrepreneurial spirit. Take Eben Pagan from GetAltitude.com. I'm not going to talk about him, but to me he is like the modern day poster child for entrepreneurs. What's his MBTI type? I've heard that he said it's INTP. And everything that I've seen has screamed to my highly judgemental mind that he is indeed a p.

    So, from what I've seen, the tendency to run social interactions may be separate from the tendency to start your own company. And I believe that any time you discuss internal traits, you are bringing up things that can traced back to tribal times. So if the guy who leads social interactions was a guy in charge during ancient times, then who was the guy that wants to start his own company? Did he form his own tribe? Offer everyone else a new tribe to join?

    -------------

    Sites like this* don't get it completely right, in my opinion. It says that the heart of entrepreneurship is creativity, drive, focus, risks, and collaboration. I have plenty of those qualities, and I'm no entrepreneur. I think a site that does tap into the spirit better is this one.**

    *What is Entrepreneurship?
    **College Will Kill Your Entrepreneurial Spirit While Simultaneously Turning You into a Worker Bee · Violent Acres

    --------------

    Maybe the "spirit" is more than just an internal trait. It might be a product of environment as well. I'm under the impression that people who are poor as kids tend to be become more ambitious to make money. But Bill Gates came from a wealthy family.
    Last edited by Matt22; 09-04-2007 at 09:58 PM.

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    The few past days, I've tried to develop a more solid understanding of what dominance is. I wrote a stream-of-thought post and gradually whittled it down to a more focused topic. But in the process, I also whittled away the good introduction that is necessary to hook the audience's attention. So you guys are going to get stuck with just the information. Information based on my impressions...

    In this post, I focus on some J's and catalog the different ways that they naturally establish dominance. P's are a different story, in my opinion, and they do their own stuff.

    1) Fear. My Dad is a pretty friendly and outgoing guy. He looks after a lot of people, and there's generally a good time to be had when he's around. But he's also very strongwilled and has a temper. And he's not always good at being sensitive to other people's problems. As nice as he tries to be, a part of him gets contemptuous whenever it senses weakness. People immediately recognize these qualities in him (whether they realize it or not), and they automatically stay on their best behavior around him.

    2) Aloof. One guy I know at work who's close to my age is another ENTJ. He isn't as strongwilled as my Dad and lacks the deep-seated temper. But he also isn't as friendly. He usually won't acknowledge people's existance unless they come to him. He'll often make fun of his coworkers, call them out, etc. He'll even do it behind their backs. My favorite example was when a coworker, who was about ten years older than him, was leaving his office after a long period of chatting. The coworker said, "don't forget to ______," and the young J responded from inside his office, "don't forget to SHUT UP." The coworker laughed.

    3) Interest. One of my friends takes a genuine interest in other people. He works in a job where people can come to him easily, and we all take that opportunity. He still manages to maintain dominance though. He instinctively keeps control of the conversation while we provide the support. I would classify him as an ENFJ, because he doesn't focus on understanding the facts as much as I do (though he was an A student in school). Instead, creating a good feeling while casually discussing stuff is more his thing.

    4) P behavior. Another of my friends is both friendly and nice. His advantage is that he's good at talking, especially about himself and things he's interested in. I would normally classify that as P behavior, but I've known him for a long time, and I know that he's a J. Everything about him fits the J description. He's just good at socializing like a P (as long as he's in control, of course).

    5) Ball Busting or "Game Playing." I had a J boss who naturally did this as a habit when he was in control. I think he did this to cover up for the fact that he's actually nice on the inside. Game playing, by definition, means calling people out or creating an intense atmosphere in which there is a certain degree of 'play' involved (ie: the player doesn't really mean it, though he may pretend to). I agree that it can be fun, but it can also be tiresome for the recipient.

    6) Jokes. One guy I know well at school has a lot of similarities to my Dad. He's very competent, driving, and sharp. Nor does he bust on others unless the situation calls for it. However, he lacks the temper that my Dad has. He's pretty strong-willed, but people just aren't afraid of him. Deep down, he's just another nice guy. So when things get stressful, he turns to making jokes to keep everyone cool. They're often pretty funny too. But like the game-playing, it can be tiresome, and the laughter is more of an automatic response than a genuine one.

    7) Energy. I've had a few TJ professors now who are very good at being dramatic and putting a lot of energy into the classroom. In this sense they are playing the role of an F because they are purposely manipulating emotions as well as thoughts. But when they do this, they have a tendency to stray from the focus of the lecture. This is because they are wandering into F territory, which isn't truly their home, but just something that they have a talent for. So when they get into that mode, it takes up all of their attention. We still enjoy it, of course, though we tend to learn less and take fewer notes.

    8) Rules. Now I finally get to talk about myself. During high school, I worked as a lifeguard and swim teacher. What I lacked in natural dominance was completely made up for by official authority. People had to respect the rules that I enforced regardless of what they thought of me. This sounds uncool, but in general things ran pretty smoothly. It was an easy position for me to be in, and I saw that most people were fine with rules.

    9) Being Right. If I'm in an environment where people are seeking answers, and I make an assertion, people will start challenging me. My best chance of establishing dominance is to have "being exactly correct" on my side. This requires that I be very careful and precise in my statements. It's also essential that I keep a close eye on the conversation and not let it go off on a tangent. This means that I have to avoid the temptation to argue, call out, insert commentary, or be emotional (except under very occasional and appropriate circumstances). This is where my real "fighting" takes place.



    Which ways are the most successful? From what I've seen, people truly respond best to number 1). But I'd say that numbers 2) and 5) are the most likely to attract groupies to your door.
    Last edited by Matt22; 09-06-2007 at 12:10 PM.

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    MBTI Types


    ISTJ 11.6%
    ISFJ 13.8%
    INTJ 2.1%
    INFJ 1.5%
    ESTJ 8.7%
    ESFJ 12.3%
    ENTJ 1.8%
    ENFJ 2.5%

    ISTP 5.4%
    ISFP 8.8%
    INTP 3.3%
    INFP 4.4%
    ESTP 4.3%
    ESFP 8.5%
    ENTP 3.2%
    ENFP 8.1%

    Total J's: 54.3%
    Total for P's: 46.6%

    I have a hard time believing this ratio of J's to P's. I have lived my whole life amongst P's. I can practically count the number the J's I've come across. Why do you think I was able to describe all those J's in my previous post? Because they were so distinctive that I remembered them. Saying that there are more J's than P's is like saying there are more leaders than followers. Very, very untrue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt22 View Post
    I have a hard time believing this ratio of J's to P's. I have lived my whole life amongst P's. I can practically count the number the J's I've come across. Why do you think I was able to describe all those J's in my previous post? Because they were so distinctive that I remembered them. Saying that there are more J's than P's is like saying there are more leaders than followers. Very, very untrue.
    I think since we're talking about a very large sample of here, it's easy to get caught in unevenly distributed pockets. I don't doubt that your experience is true, but you can't extrapolate from a non-representative sample. Our social circles are not evenly distributed.

    As an analogy, I recently read that 20-25% of the Republican voter base is evangelical Christian... but if I used your logic I wouldn't believe it, because where I have lived for almost my entire life (the center and eastern parts of Pennsylvania), I would swear that 60-80% of the people I know are evangelical or conservative Christians, and the same percentages would be Republican. So if I used inductive reasoning, I would be very very wrong here -- as the facts bear out.
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    That's a good point. And my experiences may be biased by age as well. Looking through the test, something that I noticed is that all of the P/J questions emphasized responsibility, planning, and decision making. As people get older, have families, and take on more responsibility, I wouldn't be surprised if far more people test J than they would have when they were younger.

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    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt22 View Post
    (Below was inspired by what I've seen from looking up GetAltitude.com--don't ask)

    I've always wondered where some people get their entrepreneurial spirit from. Despite being moderately interested in the history of companies, I've never really had that desire to form my own. In fact, when I'm at work, I feel a tendency to try please my bosses. I want to make them happy, be proud of my work, and move my way up through the company. It's almost a feeling of wanting to serve.

    This of course, conflicts with my J personality of wanting to be in charge. So while I'm standing at my boss' office and eagerly hoping to be led into something cool, I'm also not keeping solid eye contact with him. This is because solid eye contact comes naturally for me when I'm the one directing the conversation. It's wierd to have these contradictory things going on.

    And to make things even wierder, I suspect that there are plenty of P's who do have that entrepreneurial spirit. Take Eben Pagan from GetAltitude.com. I'm not going to talk about him, but to me he is like the modern day poster child for entrepreneurs. What's his MBTI type? I've heard that he said it's INTP. And everything that I've seen has screamed to my highly judgemental mind that he is indeed a p.

    So, from what I've seen, the tendency to run social interactions may be separate from the tendency to start your own company. And I believe that any time you discuss internal traits, you are bringing up things that can traced back to tribal times. So if the guy who leads social interactions was a guy in charge during ancient times, then who was the guy that wants to start his own company? Did he form his own tribe? Offer everyone else a new tribe to join?
    Heh, I find this to be both enlightening and humorous. For me the most interesting part easily is starting up the company from scratch. That is where the challenge is. I'm afraid that once the business got to the profitable stage I'd find it boring and tedious. I don't mind being in charge of people though, but unlike an ENTJ I don't strongly desire to be in charge either.

    What I don't really care for is being part of a highly structed organization. There are lots of expectations that I don't want to conform toward. Right now I work for a corporation, but I'm already thinking of possible future business ventures. Mostly likely I'll work for my company for several years until I get the certification that I'm after, and then either work freelance or start a small consulting firm.
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    Close-mindedness

    J's are, by definition, judgemental. They have a reputation of acting before thinking, making quick (and firm) decisions, and being close-minded.

    For me, I think that the reputation is at least partly false. I'm always questioning my own statements and decisions. I look to other people's input and my own experiences for things that contradict my assertions. I'm wrong so much of the time that I need to be open-minded out of necessity.

    But even so, it's possible that I might be close-minded in a different way. For example, even though I'm hardwired to be interested in science, I don't really like reading scientific articles. It's one of those things that should be interesting, but when I get down to it, I suddenly find myself losing interest.

    Why am I like that? I guess it might be because I can't make judgements while I'm reading it. If I have no expertise on the subject, then I have to sort of just accept everything that the author says. I guess making judgements is sort of like candy for my brain.

    (so in conclusion, I guess you can say that I have a tendency to be close-minded to new information that I can't evaluate)

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