User Tag List

First 123

Results 21 to 25 of 25

Thread: Old INTJs

  1. #21
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INfj
    Enneagram
    451 sx/so
    Socionics
    ENFj Ni
    Posts
    5,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrischa View Post
    Well, they grow old and die like everyone else, don't they? Unless they've managed to make themselves into robots or cure aging.

    Well. Nothing so sinister, I hope. I hear from many older INTJs that they become more mellow in the strength of their preferences for INTJ. They usually become more F and more P, as far as I can see.
    I agree in that you should ideally be developing all those shadowy functions one experience at a time, hopefully ending up somewhere individuated. An individuated INTJ? Hmmm... lol
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  2. #22
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Purpose and goals underly everything. Sitting on a forum all day is a highly improbably place to find actual INTJ's. They will have purpose and goals outside just knowledge for knowledge sake, like the NTP's. If actual INTJ's do stop by, they not going to be around long. Either they will learn what they need or will dismiss the entire community.
    Why are you here, then? Just curious.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  3. #23
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,889

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    This is false. We do not develop all 8 functions. Only the first 4.
    There appear to be some quite intelligent people who do this stuff for a living (Nardi, Thompson, Beebe), who would disagree with you. I'm not saying you are wrong. I just don't know how you can be so sure of yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post

    The pattern is clear. Musk and Munger are no teddy bears. They are never ever ever ever going to develop Fe's. I had a an ESFJ girlfriend for a year and it influenced me slightly, my friends say I became more pleasant to hang out with in larger groups, but all that is just "emulation".

    Munger is just as abrasive and riles people up the wrong way even at 87. It's not Aspergers or "unhealthy" it's just Te and being decisive, it is hardly ever personal.
    So all or even most INTJs develop that way? What evidence do you have other than looking at the ones you mention. I work with some and they are not abrasive in the way you describe. Several have softened their approach as they have gotten older - some much more than others. As they have developed Fi and well, matured in general, they have become more focused on and caring about people. I guess we can argue on what "teddy bear" means but that seems pretty pointless.

    With regards to using Fe - well I can't say much there. Developing Fi is hard enough. But Ne or Ti - sure why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post

    Purpose and goals underly everything. Sitting on a forum all day is a highly improbably place to find actual INTJ's. They will have purpose and goals outside just knowledge for knowledge sake, like the NTP's. If actual INTJ's do stop by, they not going to be around long. Either they will learn what they need or will dismiss the entire community.
    I agree you likely won't find them sitting on a forum all day. That doesn't mean they wouldn't be active participants. I enjoy the dialogue because I'm looking to learn things that are of practical value. The other reason is that writing helps me to clarify my thoughts. I enjoy the interaction. It's intellectually stimulating. This has been a hobby of mine, a particular area of interest for years which I've been interested in because of the practical application. I got into it because it helped me to understand other people better, which helped me to be more successful at work and with relationships. I guess that relates to purpose and goals. As far as "Purpose and goals underly everything". I don't agree but maybe I'm disagreeing with "everything". Are they a huge driver - sure absolutely. They aren't everything though.

    I can tell you one thing. Some INTJs, as they get older, are less certain they are always right.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  4. #24
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    *sigh* I used to be so... questing.

    That was before the change.



    Maybe the turning point for an INTJ is when knowing that people are dumb is no longer threatening. The fact that they're doing their own thing is no longer a source of sabotage in you doing your own thing.


    :uni:...../
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  5. #25
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    This is false. We do not develop all 8 functions. Only the first 4.
    I believe this is true, but probably not for the reasons you think. To speak of "developing" the 2nd 4 is kind of like talking about becoming adept at typing with one's toes. Perhaps they're "there" in an ontological sense, but no, toes aren't fingers and one isn't going to "develop" them as one does one's fingers.

    Some background.

    I am 32. I have studied older INTJ's, Charles Munger (87) and Elon Musk (40) who sites Nicholas Tesla (INTJ) as someone he can learn from, extensively as well as younger INTJ's such as Mark Zuckerberg. (27)

    The pattern is clear. Musk and Munger are no teddy bears. They are never ever ever ever going to develop Fe's. I had a an ESFJ girlfriend for a year and it influenced me slightly, my friends say I became more pleasant to hang out with in larger groups, but all that is just "emulation".

    Munger is just as abrasive and riles people up the wrong way even at 87. It's not Aspergers or "unhealthy" it's just Te and being decisive, it is hardly ever personal.

    Watch this video if you need more grounding on what actual INTJ's are like.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K8NkJpUei4

    Purpose and goals underly everything. Sitting on a forum all day is a highly improbably place to find actual INTJ's. They will have purpose and goals outside just knowledge for knowledge sake, like the NTP's. If actual INTJ's do stop by, they not going to be around long. Either they will learn what they need or will dismiss the entire community.
    This is a selection effect: all of the INTJs you are analyzing are the famous, successful, entrepreneurial ones that are obviously doing "INTJ things". These will all be remarkably "Te" in nature, and you aren't spotting the more common INTJs that are perhaps just as driven, but in other directions. Philosophers and writers might be more Ni-focused on ideas and meanings, while performers and artists might focus more on Fi or Se matters, even as they manage their overall careers in Ni/Te terms.


    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    There appear to be some quite intelligent people who do this stuff for a living (Nardi, Thompson, Beebe), who would disagree with you. I'm not saying you are wrong. I just don't know how you can be so sure of yourself.
    You don't?! I know I do. I remember being that sure of myself, too, when I was younger. I still am in many ways; I just have a better idea of the limits of knowledge.

    As for Beebe, Nardi and the rest, I respect their efforts to a degree, especially insofar as they try to advance the theory, but I still find the "we use all functions" axiom to be tendentious and misleading. It's slightly more accurate to say that we have the "potential" to use all functions, and I would consider that to be technically correct. But to say we eventually "develop" all of them highly problematic. The original functions are archetypes, and to effectively belong to all archetypes is to misconstrue the nature of an archetype.

    I do believe that the ordering of the 2nd 4 is somewhat useful, in that it indicates how remote the 7th and 8th are from the consciousness of the first two, and the possibilities for misunderstanding between an individual and those who have the 7th and 8th functions in their first two.

    So all or even most INTJs develop that way? What evidence do you have other than looking at the ones you mention. I work with some and they are not abrasive in the way you describe. Several have softened their approach as they have gotten older - some much more than others. As they have developed Fi and well, matured in general, they have become more focused on and caring about people. I guess we can argue on what "teddy bear" means but that seems pretty pointless.

    With regards to using Fe - well I can't say much there. Developing Fi is hard enough. But Ne or Ti - sure why not?
    Agreed, except I think we find it easy to appear to be using Ne or Ti. The typical skill sets greatly overlap, but the thought-paths do not.

    I agree you likely won't find them sitting on a forum all day. That doesn't mean they wouldn't be active participants. I enjoy the dialogue because I'm looking to learn things that are of practical value. The other reason is that writing helps me to clarify my thoughts. I enjoy the interaction. It's intellectually stimulating. This has been a hobby of mine, a particular area of interest for years which I've been interested in because of the practical application. I got into it because it helped me to understand other people better, which helped me to be more successful at work and with relationships. I guess that relates to purpose and goals. As far as "Purpose and goals underly everything". I don't agree but maybe I'm disagreeing with "everything". Are they a huge driver - sure absolutely. They aren't everything though.

    I can tell you one thing. Some INTJs, as they get older, are less certain they are always right.
    Heheheh.

    Yeah, I enjoy forums as a means of talking with those rare individuals who have interesting things to say, and who actually understand what I'm talking about without my having to explain everything from scratch. These aren't commonly present in real life for INTJs.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

Similar Threads

  1. [INTJ] Ask an INTJ
    By logan235711 in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 870
    Last Post: 05-22-2015, 05:04 AM
  2. [INTJ] INTJ's Introverted Feeling - Child (Puer/Puella)
    By Zhash in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 01-04-2010, 09:06 AM
  3. I'm getting old and constantly changing... INTJ or INTP
    By paperoceans in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 11-04-2009, 07:41 PM
  4. New old INTJ
    By tnem in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 01-07-2009, 06:16 PM
  5. [INTJ] INTJ: Lack of Concentration?
    By Usehername in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-09-2007, 01:12 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO