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Thread: Evil ENFJs

  1. #31
    Junior Member disco's Avatar
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    Both ENFJs I know are quite fun and great friends, but they also both make me feel distant from them at the same time. They are both enneatype 3w2 so there's the deceit thing, I guess? Anyway, warm and fuzzy on the surface, but somehow something is still off. Or maybe I am paranoid
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  2. #32
    Junior Member Melody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopherRed View Post
    Technically speaking, people are evil on an individual to individual basis.


    only thing i've noticed is that many ENFJs are very distant. it's like they have a little of themselves out in public and most of themselves hidden in private, and they can't bridge the gap because their private selves are too intense. so it's like they have an outward persona that has a kind of sad emptiness to it and you just gotta wonder if they've ever even met another intuitive person because maybe they think they are alone in their weirdness

  3. #33
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    I have known 2 ENFJs closely over a long period of time, my 3w4 good friend and my 2w3 coworker.

    What I have found to be the "dark side" that they share in common is how quiet they are about their motives. Both my friend and coworker are very meticulous about what information they share and what information they conceal. Sometimes this may be tact, but other times, it leans heavily towards manipulation, being that they lead with Fe people-managing. In both cases, this can mean playing very different roles with different people. Sometimes you will catch them saying one thing to one person and something very, very different to another. I assume it seems internally consistent to them, but to many others it does not appear that way. This can certainly play into the distance that @disco mentioned.

    At least for me personally, I have to be very careful around ENFJs. I tend to get pulled too easily into their whirlwinds... they have such a gift for captivating and redirecting. If I'm not wary, I end up losing my self in their energy. Then I'm left behind 4 years later wondering why I wrapped my life around their finger... (true story.)

    They are beautiful, though. Beautiful and captivating sirens. I think they just always need to be aware that they do lead people, and leaders have an inherent responsibility to bring their followers down paths of mutual benefit.


    As for a (mostly) evil ENFJ, ceecee beat me to it. Jim Jones of the Peoples Temple, who founded the cult and lead 909 people including 303 children in mass suicide via cyanide poisoning, for paranoid fear that intelligence organizations were conspiring against the group and were planning to torture and kill the adults, and turn the children towards fascism. To his credit, he was an integrationist. Probably ENFJ 6w7.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Neutralpov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I have known 2 ENFJs closely over a long period of time, my 3w4 good friend and my 2w3 coworker.

    What I have found to be the "dark side" that they share in common is how quiet they are about their motives. I assume it seems internally consistent to them, but to many others it does not appear that way. This can certainly play into the distance that @disco mentioned.

    At least for me personally, I have to be very careful around ENFJs. I tend to get pulled too easily into their whirlwinds... they have such a gift for captivating and redirecting. If I'm not wary, I end up losing my self in their energy. Then I'm left behind 4 years later wondering why I wrapped my life around their finger... (true story.)

    They are beautiful, though. Beautiful and captivating sirens. I think they just always need to be aware that they do lead people, and leaders have an inherent responsibility to bring their followers down paths...
    uhhh I don't get it.... I don't think that I lead anyone or aim to be a "captivating siren." Maybe I am unusual but I tend to be individualistic and don't want the bondage of other followers in any consistency. I need the freedom to move and leap! I do agree on the sins of omission though. I am guilty but I find that to be on topics that I have decided firmly and will not accept input, backlash, mocking, debate, or otherwise silly comments on the topic without going stonefaced. I also agree on not letting an ENFJ overgive. That should be rule #1 in our guidebook.
    My reaction to the last post was, "hey are you responsible for your own life and decisions?" but that was a bit much now that I chew on it.
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  5. #35
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutralpov View Post
    My reaction to the last post was, "hey are you responsible for your own life and decisions?" but that was a bit much now that I chew on it.
    And yet you posted it anyway, lol. So here's my reply that's a bit much, too: No, I'm a mindless drone that follows others around and can't fend for myself in the big scary world.

    Realistically: Yes, of course, which is why I wrote I have to be very careful [...].

    However, E3 friend is quite selfish in some ways, and especially in comparison to my ESFJ boyfriend, I see how much directing and behavior-adjusting she did with me. She was explicitly disapproving of certain things and she would simply not respond if you seemed to like those things; she would not respond if you behaved in certain ways; she chose certain people she did not like and would be cold to you if you were kind to them; and so on. It wasn't about what she did as much as how she would only respond positively to you if you behaved in certain ways. She effectively changed others' behavior to suit her goals - which would be a great gift if she were using it for psychotherapy, but she was largely a college student leader manipulating other students.

    Anyway, I would guess with E1 you are more individually-focused, but the E2 and E3 are very extraverted and natural leaders, and were/are in positions of leadership, and as such, I feel like they do have responsibilities to be careful of how they lead other people. I was beneath E3 in two organizations, as well as being close friends, so that was a very difficult situation for me. I have to point out, though, that the whole thing was often fairly subtle - she was essentially operating on a behavioral psychological level. I've pointed it out to her since and even she didn't realize just how much she did it.

    I also agree on not letting an ENFJ overgive. That should be rule #1 in our guidebook.
    Yeah. Especially because it both hurts the ENFJ and everyone else who just can't keep up with the giving. Coworker ENFJ volunteers himself to do our lazy manager's tasks and has a very hard time saying no, and as a result our manager won't take responsibility for her own work, and the rest of us are forced to pick up after her, as well as taking care of the extra work ENFJ creates for the rest of us. He's hurting everyone even though he's trying to help (though I still appreciate and look up to him because he is a very positive and disciplined guy) - and, maddeningly, he gets props from the higher-ups for doing it... even though him doing that makes it harder on the rest of us.

  6. #36
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    I always thought NTJs are the most evil of all the types!

  7. #37
    Member WheresRocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    However, E3 friend is quite selfish in some ways, and especially in comparison to my ESFJ boyfriend, I see how much directing and behavior-adjusting she did with me. She was explicitly disapproving of certain things and she would simply not respond if you seemed to like those things; she would not respond if you behaved in certain ways; she chose certain people she did not like and would be cold to you if you were kind to them; and so on. It wasn't about what she did as much as how she would only respond positively to you if you behaved in certain ways. She effectively changed others' behavior to suit her goals - which would be a great gift if she were using it for psychotherapy, but she was largely a college student leader manipulating other students.
    My ENFJ mother does this - not at all knowingly, I feel sure. I think it's a function of her desire to avoid conflict at all costs, which does seem to be an ENFJ tendency. If you ignore/shut out all sources of potential conflict (read: anywhere anyone else disagrees with her), there can't be any conflict, right? But the effects of the strategy can easily become manipulative.

    Many times she has squashed abstract discussions between me (INFP) and my ISFJ dad, because it seemed to her we were approaching a point of potential conflict. A favorite strategy is to loudly comment on the weather to my ENFJ spouse, and the two of them will hold a loud discussion ("You think it's gonna rain? I think it's gonna rain! Hey, what if it rains!") to drown us out until we quit talking. I know her well, so I know she's operating out of fear of conflict and I make allowances, but it still frustrates both me and my dad to be denied our (usually fairly neutral) conversation.

    I can see how that kind of behavior can come across as manipulative or even evil, especially when the person being acted on doesn't know the ENFJ very well. It's certainly not an enjoyable thing to be on the receiving end of, even when you understand the motivation.

  8. #38
    Dali
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I see how much directing and behavior-adjusting she did with me. She was explicitly disapproving of certain things and she would simply not respond if you seemed to like those things; she would not respond if you behaved in certain ways; she chose certain people she did not like and would be cold to you if you were kind to them; and so on. It wasn't about what she did as much as how she would only respond positively to you if you behaved in certain ways. She effectively changed others' behavior to suit her goals.
    My ex did this. It confused me how they were so in love with me yet tried (and succeeded, in part) to change so much about who I was. Confused me.

    I've also seen my stepmum pull the same on my half-sisters.

    (Some) ENFJs need to realise what a mindfuck this is.
    Last edited by Dali; 04-04-2012 at 04:46 AM.

  9. #39
    Member WheresRocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dali View Post
    (Some) ENFJs need to realise what a mindfuck this is.
    Yeah. Especially since they gravitate toward positions of power/leadership - not that it's ever cool to be messing with people's heads, but it can be even more of a problem when the one doing the messing has power over the one being messed with.

  10. #40
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    @WheresRocket Exactly.

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