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  1. #41
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    The wise person foresees that the dating issues before marriage will not go away after marriage; they'll get worse. She should accept him the way he is or break up with him.
    i dont believe that, people change, i have changed myself from antisocial drunkard to successful business man (tho i dont know where the difference is )

    I maybe an idiot but I always believe there is hope. and in the ops case i dont think its really dramatic. i rather think he is just a bit jealous plus fears too loose her. if one doesnt make a huge problem out of that, you could try changing him. manipulation master out

    p.s.: at some point the op wrote 'that she went out without him visiting friends and three bars alone in the middle of the night'

    a man who loves his woman and doenst become jealous of his woman doing that, does not exist. and tho you can of course let your girl go party alone, you can only do that if you trust her. but if she uses to go out over and over again without reassuring trust but rather reassuring dislike towards his behaviour, problems will follow.

    I rather see the classical problem here: xnfp forgets to think like his partner and doesnt calculate that he could interpret some things fundamentally different from the xnfps perception. I have such a version at home, I know what i am talking about (or at least i pretend to xD)
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #42
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I rather see the classical problem here: xnfp forgets to think like his partner and doesnt calculate that he could interpret some things fundamentally different from the xnfps perception. I have such a version at home, I know what i am talking about (or at least i pretend to xD)
    That ISTJ is doing the same thing.

    And i dont see whats the problem with letting your SO to go to a bar with her friends, its your benefit if it makes her happy and if you are an introvert, you might get some needed alone time at the same, so its a win-winwin situation, that is unless she cheated or he has any real reason not to trust her(in that case this issie should be dealt with before marriage) other than his own paranoia or has some obsessive need for control with lack of regard for other people.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #43
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post

    ...a man who loves his woman and doenst become jealous of his woman doing that, does not exist. and tho you can of course let your girl go party alone, you can only do that if you trust her. but if she uses to go out over and over again without reassuring trust but rather reassuring dislike towards his behaviour, problems will follow...
    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    That ISTJ is doing the same thing.

    And i dont see whats the problem with letting your SO to go to a bar with her friends, its your benefit if it makes her happy and if you are an introvert, you might get some needed alone time at the same, so its a win-winwin situation, that is unless she cheated or he has any real reason not to trust her(in that case this issie should be dealt with before marriage) other than his own paranoia or has some obsessive need for control with lack of regard for other people.
    Before this gets too far, both me and my ISTJ have never ever cheated on one and another. And He is definitely not the jealous type at all. He isn't threated by ex boyfriends, he isn't really threatened by my guy friends. I think where he comes from is that it isn't "right" for a girl to hang out with guys by herself if she has a boyfriend. It isn't "right" for a wife to go out with mix gender if her husband isn't there. He doesnt think anything bad will happen, but rather, he feels that it just isn't what is suppose to happen. Though, If I can explain this correctly, he is worried what people think about him when he isn't there. That maybe people will think he's antisocial, weird, unsupportive, or whatever, perhaps undermine him. I'm not sure where this comes from. He is a very logical person. He tested as a type 5 (though, I'm not sure I fully agree on that yet...) so maybe that has something to do with it??

    That being said, he isn't jealous of me going out at all. I do know that he wishes he could be more comfortable when he goes out, but then there's times where he takes PRIDE in the fact that he dislikes dancing, bars, loud music, etc. He loves being different than what the typical 'world' enjoys.

  4. #44
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Have you both ever taken the love languages quiz? This could be a way to connect adequately with each other and understand each other's needs and perspective.

    I recommend you both take this test:

    http://www.5lovelanguages.com/

    Post back here with the results and I am happy to share more thoughts. I am an INFP married to an ESTJ (23 years) so I may have some experience of relevance.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #45
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Before this gets too far, both me and my ISTJ have never ever cheated on one and another. And He is definitely not the jealous type at all. He isn't threated by ex boyfriends, he isn't really threatened by my guy friends. I think where he comes from is that it isn't "right" for a girl to hang out with guys by herself if she has a boyfriend. It isn't "right" for a wife to go out with mix gender if her husband isn't there. He doesnt think anything bad will happen, but rather, he feels that it just isn't what is suppose to happen. Though, If I can explain this correctly, he is worried what people think about him when he isn't there. That maybe people will think he's antisocial, weird, unsupportive, or whatever, perhaps undermine him. I'm not sure where this comes from. He is a very logical person. He tested as a type 5 (though, I'm not sure I fully agree on that yet...) so maybe that has something to do with it??

    That being said, he isn't jealous of me going out at all. I do know that he wishes he could be more comfortable when he goes out, but then there's times where he takes PRIDE in the fact that he dislikes dancing, bars, loud music, etc. He loves being different than what the typical 'world' enjoys.
    Okay, so he rather preserves his view on others as being someone who isnt antisocial rather than lets you have fun, even tho he doesent mind being seen as different from social butterflies ?

    But you know this him seeing that there is something wrong with girls hanging out in mixed company is one of these Si weird shits(which i explained earlier when explaining his behavior) that he needs to work with. Believe me theres nothing wrong with that in the real world, its just some weird subjective truth of his that doesent make any sense when you compare it to real world and if he cant even explain it with jealousy, well i just see it as him having something wrong with his mind, some minor mental problem that he needs to work with.

    But let me ask one thing, you said something before about him saying that he will be even more strict with this stuff after you get married. Are you willing to accept being something between a prisoner and a child to him for the rest of your life?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  6. #46
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    And sorry for having this type of attitude towards him, it just makes me cry inside that someone restricts another persons freedom like this, isnt able to think whats good for someone he loves and isnt concerned how his partner feels(or honestly i cant even see that as love for the other person, but just love to self and childish want to have someone to love him also), and even more so if someone is willing to put up with this kind of shit for being such a good hearted person and due to some hormonal activity that they call love.. In my eyes this is equal to physical abuse of your partner
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  7. #47
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Okay, so he rather preserves his view on others as being someone who isnt antisocial rather than lets you have fun, even tho he doesent mind being seen as different from social butterflies ?

    But you know this him seeing that there is something wrong with girls hanging out in mixed company is one of these Si weird shits(which i explained earlier when explaining his behavior) that he needs to work with. Believe me theres nothing wrong with that in the real world, its just some weird subjective truth of his that doesent make any sense when you compare it to real world and if he cant even explain it with jealousy, well i just see it as him having something wrong with his mind, some minor mental problem that he needs to work with.

    But let me ask one thing, you said something before about him saying that he will be even more strict with this stuff after you get married. Are you willing to accept being something between a prisoner and a child to him for the rest of your life?

    Yeah, I'm aware of all of this weird Si stuff haha I call him out on it all the time, and have showed him and he understood that he can be wrong about things. Again, there were questions we are going through for premartial counseling, one of the questions is how will your role with the other gender change once you are married -- which is how he gave his explanation to mixed gender hang outs. He really doesnt have any girl friends, and I have a lot of guy friends so I think he just doesnt understand it ya know? Anyways, I should have rephrased the "being more strict" I think his wording was more that once we are married, he would like me to limit my time with mixed gender hang outs. What I dont understand (which I will bring up during counseling) is why do things suddenly need to CHANGE once we are Married?? We've been dating for like 7 years, why does all of a sudden, things like this need to adapt?

    I wouldnt use the word "prisoner" at all. as I have said, he isnt demanding and domineering and controlling, it's more of like the "child" relationship, which I talked to him about times before. That sometimes i feel like he 'fathers' me. He is aware and works on it.

  8. #48
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Yeah, I'm aware of all of this weird Si stuff haha I call him out on it all the time, and have showed him and he understood that he can be wrong about things. Again, there were questions we are going through for premartial counseling, one of the questions is how will your role with the other gender change once you are married -- which is how he gave his explanation to mixed gender hang outs. He really doesnt have any girl friends, and I have a lot of guy friends so I think he just doesnt understand it ya know? Anyways, I should have rephrased the "being more strict" I think his wording was more that once we are married, he would like me to limit my time with mixed gender hang outs. What I dont understand (which I will bring up during counseling) is why do things suddenly need to CHANGE once we are Married?? We've been dating for like 7 years, why does all of a sudden, things like this need to adapt?

    I wouldnt use the word "prisoner" at all. as I have said, he isnt demanding and domineering and controlling, it's more of like the "child" relationship, which I talked to him about times before. That sometimes i feel like he 'fathers' me. He is aware and works on it.
    Okay.

    Btw have you talked about parenting, i could see you two having sooo different views on how to raise a child and i can see this bringing up some major problems.

    Also you mentioned that your premaritial counseling is at church. Is the counselor some grumpy old fart who sees female-male friendship as something close to cheating or someone who lives on earth, not in heaven?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  9. #49
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Have you both ever taken the love languages quiz? This could be a way to connect adequately with each other and understand each other's needs and perspective.

    I recommend you both take this test:

    http://www.5lovelanguages.com/

    Post back here with the results and I am happy to share more thoughts. I am an INFP married to an ESTJ (23 years) so I may have some experience of relevance.
    Yep! We took it for premarital counseling. This is the first theory type thing that I think he's ever found interesting and useful.

    He scored leading with Acts of Services and very very close behind (maybe 1 point away) was a tie between Quality Time and Words of Affirmation.

    I scored very high tying between Quality Time and Words of Affirmation. Very close behind was Physical touch.

    We found that we both enjoy QT but on different terms. He likes when he knows I am doing something I dont like to make him happy. (Hence, why I created this thread-- i cant fathom that). I enjoy QT time as any NF would -- deep conversations and exploring ideas.

    INFP & ESTJ? Yeah, I'd love some insight!!

  10. #50
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    He likes when he knows I am doing something I dont like to make him happy.
    Wtf, seriously.. Has he had some psychological evaluation? That sounds like serious psychopath trait..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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