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  1. #41
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    The responses sound a little overwrought to me.
    This is a bit what I'm wondering about. Why do NFs have to be so melodramatic for? But we can't HELP it! Makes me hate myself. As an INFJ I contain it and try my best not to plague people about it, but I can't help feeling it inside!

    I agree with you that such deep feeling should lead to action, and in my case, I generally do try to help as much as is in my power. This is precisely why I'm asking what is the ultimate usefulness of deep feeling.

  2. #42
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    This is a bit what I'm wondering about. Why do NFs have to be so melodramatic for? But we can't HELP it! Makes me hate myself. As an INFJ I contain it and try my best not to plague people about it, but I can't help feeling it inside!
    The thing is...arg, I feel like such a downer for being one of the odd ones out in this thread, and I don't want to invalidate people.... but I think we CAN help it. I mean, like I said in my first post, I don't really relate to the melodramatic thing. So while I think it might be an NF trend, I don't think it's something NF's are chained to. If that makes sense. I don't want to invalidate people, as I've had some patches in my past when I've been stuck in a loop, but I don't think it's something that's..unavoidable.

    I don't have enough time to write today but I want to try to come up with a good, helpful response for some other ways to look at it and look at things...as if you 'hate' yourself for it, I think that means there's a way you can approach all of it that might alleviate some of that self-bashing and other things.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  3. #43
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    The thing is...arg, I feel like such a downer for being one of the odd ones out in this thread, and I don't want to invalidate people.... but I think we CAN help it. I mean, like I said in my first post, I don't really relate to the melodramatic thing. So while I think it might be an NF trend, I don't think it's something NF's are chained to. If that makes sense. I don't want to invalidate people, as I've had some patches in my past when I've been stuck in a loop, but I don't think it's something that's..unavoidable.

    I don't have enough time to write today but I want to try to come up with a good, helpful response for some other ways to look at it and look at things...as if you 'hate' yourself for it, I think that means there's a way you can approach all of it that might alleviate some of that self-bashing and other things.
    You certainly have a strong T standing alongside your F. Was that a process or it's natural? I see you are a type five (often analytical and not so feely).

  4. #44
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    You certainly have a strong T standing alongside your F. Was that a process or it's natural? I see you are a type five (often analytic and not so feely).
    I'm not sure. When I think too much about this topic, I start going into the chicken-or-the-egg thing..which came first, haha. I did test as INTJ in my early 20's, and I do think I'm closer to T than some F's, although I think I'm still much more of the NF temperament.

    I think it's partly natural (or at least, nurture/life experiences)- given how I was raised. Very introverted environment, and not emotionally expressive in the slightest, so I think I was NiTi long before the Fe really came out. I have also always been pulled in two directions - the sciences/math and the arts, so in that sense I think I'm more divided and not strictly one or the other.

    Yeah, I think the type 5 has a lot to do with it too. Anyway, I sometimes debate whether to post in threads that I don't relate as much to, or not, because I want to contribute but I know what I have to say won't be received as well if I happen to not relate, you know? Anyway..gotta go.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  5. #45
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    No, the OP seems to be questioning if there is anything positive about having strong emotional reactions at times. Does it serve any purpose to be very sensitive?
    Of course there's something positive to have strong emotional reactions at times. That's human. But people sound like they live is a state of constant emotional reactivity. I don't believe that's a defining feature of being NF nor should people pass it off as one.
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    No, most don't sound overwrought. But maybe to a disgruntled ESFJ they do.
    Are you still sucking on that lemon?:rolli:

    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    Just out of curiosity, do the posts here really sound that overwrought? I won't use the word whiny (that would be assuming knowledge)
    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    The thing is...arg, I feel like such a downer for being one of the odd ones out in this thread, and I don't want to invalidate people.... but I think we CAN help it. I mean, like I said in my first post, I don't really relate to the melodramatic thing. So while I think it might be an NF trend, I don't think it's something NF's are chained to. If that makes sense. I don't want to invalidate people, as I've had some patches in my past when I've been stuck in a loop, but I don't think it's something that's..unavoidable.

    I don't have enough time to write today but I want to try to come up with a good, helpful response for some other ways to look at it and look at things...as if you 'hate' yourself for it, I think that means there's a way you can approach all of it that might alleviate some of that self-bashing and other things.
    +1000000000000000000000. I'm totally with you, casca.

    In my perception, I find there is an overvaluing of being emotional in threads like these. The more extreme the emotional reaction, the more eviscerating it is, the more real it is. There's very little advocacy to attempt moderation or regulation. If you're oversensitive, then that's beautiful. And then there's the pile on.

    Emotional processing can go in many directions; they can be stripped of all of their nutrients and wholesomeness or they can be refined to a more usable object like a precious metal. I'm not advocating ignore your emotions, skip over them, stuff them away in a little box and push them to the back of your closet. But what seems overwrought to me is what seems to be people saying the consistently dwell in these emotional crevices. And then on top of that there seems to be a learned helplessness, like you couldn't take control even if you tried.

    I think this makes you a slave to your own emotions. You're at their whim and mercy. That's not emotional processing. Is this empathy or is this empathy without discernment, without context, or without proportion? So yes this a contribution to the question of why NFs supposedly "need to feel upset so easily." I say they don't! It's not a prerequisite to being an NF as people are trying to pass it off as.

    I understand this is not exactly what the OP was talking about, but thread derails are abundant here so...
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  6. #46
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Of course there's something positive to have strong emotional reactions at times. That's human. But people sound like they live is a state of constant emotional reactivity. I don't believe that's a defining feature of being NF nor should people pass it off as one.
    They don't sound that way to me.

    Are you still sucking on that lemon?:rolli:
    You certainly are.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  7. #47
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Which type are you, Proteanmix?

    I'd like to add that as SilkRoad and Fidelia have mentioned in earlier posts, this deep feeling does not apply to all situations, but only to those that mean an awful lot to us. Situations or people that have managed to find room within our ideals. If we are disppointed, our whole world is shaken. This is true for INFJ, at least.

  8. #48
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post

    I agree with you that such deep feeling should lead to action, and in my case, I generally do try to help as much as is in my power. This is precisely why I'm asking what is the ultimate usefulness of deep feeling.
    Ok, so I have a little more time here!

    I'm not sure there's much usefulness in feeling things deeply - but I'll elaborate here. I do think there's incredible value in reflecting, processing, and understanding the emotions that you're experiencing at a given moment. They provide an indicator/roadmap/gauge to how you're doing, whether you need to reassess your priorities or relationships, or reassess your own perceptions or beliefs. Sometimes 'reassessment' isn't necessary...you instead know you have to do something, an are propelled directly towards action. And sometimes there is value in just working through the feelings - say, grief - because it can be a process to get to the other side. But that's all individual growth/awareness. They provide more direct usefulness, again, with being better able to reach out and connect with others. So emotional awareness creates better self-understanding, which in turn means you're better able to reach out and help others....when your own self is nourished/healthy, you're in a much better position to interact with others in a positive, mutually beneficial way.

    But..I think there's a difference between emotional awareness and the act of 'feeling deeply'. Simply the act of feeling - pure feeling - doesn't accomplish anything, so in that sense I don't think it's 'useful' per se. I mean, after all, it's a wholly reflective process, feeling/emotion in and of itself. It's what you end up doing with what you've learned from it -- not the feelings themselves. Are you feeling the feelings just for the feeling themselves, or are you exploring the feelings with the goal of learning/analyzing/taking action?

    I'm reminded of a quote from a book I was reading the other night (it's a cultural history book and the author (Jacques Barzun) was discussing the concept of sentimentalism); it's not directly related to this thread, nor am I directing this towards anyone specifically, I just thought it was a fun little tangent:

    But what is sentimentality? If one asks somebody who ought to know, one is told: an excess of emotion; or again, misplaced emotion. Both answers miss the point. Who can judge when emotion is too much? People vary not only in the power to feel and express feeling, but also in their imagination, so that a stolid nature will deem it excessive as soon as love or grief is expressed vividly and strongly. Shakespeare is full of "exaggerated" emotion, but never sentimental. The same remark applies to the other answer. When is feeling misplaced? at the sufferings of the tragic hero? at the death of a pet? at the destruction of a masterpiece? One may argue that any emotion out of the common should be restrained in public, but that is another question, one of social manners that has nothing to do with a feeling's fitness to its occasion. The diagnostic test must be found somewhere else.

    Sentimentality is feeling that shuts out action, real or potential. It is self-centered and a species of make-believe. William James gives the example of the woman who sheds tears at the heroine's plight on the stage while her coachman is freezing outside the theater. So far is the sentimentalist from being one whose emotions exceed the legal limit that he may be charged with deficient energy in what he feels; it does not propel him. That is why he finds pleasure in grief and when he is in love never proposes.


    -------------

    For myself, the reason I posted a second time was simply because KLessard's comment,
    But we can't HELP it! Makes me hate myself.
    , seemed to me as if she was somehow dissatisfied with this aspect of herself, and felt it was 'inevitable' and unavoidable. That's what the rest of this post is directed towards - towards anyone who might not like being caught up in such emotional fluxes. But I recognize that many people not only process things differently, but also have no dissatisfaction/problem whatsoever with this aspect of themselves- which is a good thing (being happy with who you are, that is).

    I just know from personal experience the self-bashing isn't a great place to be in. I went through a period where I was really upset about my emotional ups and downs, and consequently I fixated on them that much more and they played a much more powerful role in my life. I've never been one to verbalize any/most of this, so it wouldn't have been known to anyone really (which is why I've never been called dramatic or anything like that). But eventually I came to just accept them - accept it as a given. Not focus on any of it too much, just let them be, let them alone, accept the nature of things I might not like (stop fighting against reality), and you know what? They immediately began to have much less 'power' over me, and became less important. Just background noise, in some cases. That's in general.

    Specifically, I guess over time I've chosen not to take things terribly personally, nor 'expect' certain behaviors out of other people, or out of my relationships. I also think I used to be quite a bit more sensitive (esp. as a teenager) than I am now. They are who they are, I am who I am. I am certain if I DID expect certain traits out of others, I'd be disappointed WAAYYY more than I am, now, as well as offended more, and then I'd again be caught up in consistent negative feelings, many of which I don't think I'd truly be justified in having, because again, a lot of it would be due to my projecting my own desires/wishes/hopes/self onto others that isn't exactly fair for me to do.

    With everything I've written, I don't mean to imply this is the way everyone should be or respond (because I don't believe that it is), nor that this is the 'right' way. This is just some of how I go about doing things/looking at things that I think makes it so that I'm less emotionally reactive/upset, in general.



    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    But what seems overwrought to me is what seems to be people saying the consistently dwell in these emotional crevices. And then on top of that there seems to be a learned helplessness, like you couldn't take control even if you tried.

    I think this makes you a slave to your own emotions. You're at their whim and mercy. That's not emotional processing. Is this empathy or is this empathy without discernment, without context, or without proportion? So yes this a contribution to the question of why NFs supposedly "need to feel upset so easily." I say they don't! It's not a prerequisite to being an NF as people are trying to pass it off as.

    I understand this is not exactly what the OP was talking about, but thread derails are abundant here so...
    I do think this is something it took a bit of time for me to learn. The time I was speaking of, I really felt at the mercy of my emotions, which I hated.... but it IS controllable, to a pretty significant extent (at least it was for myself).

    And I agree [Which is why I agree] all of this isn't a prerequisite for being NF.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  9. #49
    Member Tycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    So emotional awareness creates better self-understanding, which in turn means you're better able to reach out and help others....
    Yes, but not only to help, also to just enjoy the feeling of a deep emotional intimacy with them.

    Isn't the deepest desire of a person with Fe to be in an emotionally intense contact with the people surrounding him?

    Besides that, I think I'm able to (kind of) enjoy the feeling of emotional torture even while I'm suffering, on some level. Maybe aesthetically.. I feel very much alive when I feel pain; especially because I know it won't last long.

    I do intend to feel happy and see no specific virtue in mutual suffering. It's just that I have a very empathic nature that creates the need to connect with people on a deep emotional level.

    Because of our sentimental nature, we are ultimately able to understand things more profoundly and clearly than other people will. Therefore, you could say that people with a lot of empathy are 'responsible' for the emotional wellbeing of others that simply don't manage to be happy.

  10. #50
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    I'm going to assume that the OP is a female. A lot of NF females like to talk about how intensely they feel things and all of that.

    I say, it's all a steaming pile of bull.

    When a woman talks about how intense she feels things or how sensitive she is, the key thing she forgets to add is that she is only that way when it comes things INVOLVING HER.

    The so-called sensitivity, when you objectively analyze it, could actually spring from a rather peculiar form of selfishness.


    Now, I specifically target females in this tirade. Partly for personal reasons which you could easily figure out. Hint: my signature.

    But also because with males it's a different story. I believe that with males, our emotions are purer or less diluted , and if a male NF tells you he feels things intensely, or is extra sensitive, then you can safely take that at face value, for it takes balls to display such vulnerability.

    On the other hand, when a female says, "I feel things so intensely!!!" : Be Wary. You can't just take it on face value for their emotions are more diluted and who knows what the sensitivity could be masking. Perhaps, that sensitivity is a symptom of more complex neurosis or plain old self-absorption.

    "Oh, but I am empathic too!"

    No, not really.

    When you imagine yourself in the person's position and then start to feel sorry for...........................yourself............ ........well, that's not exactly empathy, now is it ?

    Be very way of Fi in females. Too much Fe might lead to mother-henning, but too much Fi could make you think she's in love with you, when she's actually more in love with the "intense feelings" that you make her experience on the inside.

    Something we should all remember: When you're busy feeling things so intensely on the inside, it is much easier to fail to realize the impact of your actions on another.

    Everything else pales in comparison to what you're feeling on the inside. This could make you become self-absorbed, but to yourself, you will think that you're just a misunderstood, perpetual victim ("nobody else understands how powerful my feelings are inside")

    This is why I call it a peculiar form of selfishness.
    The purple sun won't heal my purple bruises :ouch:

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