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  1. #81
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Ahh, this reminds me of a conversation I had with Jennifer and why she's more inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt and why I'm not.

    Basically I was like people can't be that stupid, I truly believe people are smarter than that and since I believe they are I expect them to be.

    She was basically like I believe people are that stupid and since they are I can cut them some slack.

    [...]
    This is kind of the dark underbelly of idealism, I think. The more positive your view of human nature, the less slack you tend to give people. If you think humans are naturally wise and intelligent, then stupid and foolish behavior pretty much HAS to be intentionally caused or inflicted somewhere up the line.

    That's one problem I have with theology and belief systems that say that people are born naturally 100% good, nice, sweet and innocent. In my experience, we are born bundles of conflicting, often selfish desires and we have to learn (painfully) how to channel those tendencies productively and nondestructively.

    I've learned that personally it works best for me to have low expectations so I can be pleasantly surprised. I tend to come across as a kind of an up-beat pessimist. Definitely not in the rose-colored glasses camp.

    However, I've heard optimists get more done even though they typically have a less accurate conception of reality. Go figure.

  2. #82
    Senior Member mr.awesome's Avatar
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    i believe we can be 'evil' so to say, but from what i have observed from myself and other infp's.. the negativity side is taken out and acted upon on themselves rather than others.

  3. #83
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Yes, I think anyone can be.

  4. #84
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    The more positive your view of human nature, the less slack you tend to give people.
    I think my idealism works the exact opposite. Seeing human nature in the positive is the reason why I give people "slack". We can be idealist about human nature and still be realistic about the diversity of human behaviors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    If you think humans are naturally wise and intelligent, then stupid and foolish behavior pretty much HAS to be intentionally caused or inflicted somewhere up the line.
    But is it really idealistic to think that all people, at all ages and stages, are "wise" and "intelligent"? That kind of thinking just seems altogether grounded in a complete lack of understanding of humanity, and the subjectivness of those terms.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  5. #85
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    I think my idealism works the exact opposite. Seeing human nature in the positive is the reason why I give people "slack". We can be idealist about human nature and still be realistic about the diversity of human behaviors.
    There are a happy mediums, and you appear to have found one for yourself. On the other end of the spectrum, if one thinks human beings are irredeemably evil and idiotic, then there's no point in trying to improve any of them (including oneself). I think the "entirely bad" view leads to behaviors as negative as the "entirely good" view.

    I also find the "entirely good" view dangerous on the personal level, because it leads to a definition of the self as entirely good. It thereby enables projection of all that is bad in oneself onto others or external forces.

    But is it really idealistic to think that all people, at all ages and stages, are "wise" and "intelligent"? That kind of thinking just seems altogether grounded in a complete lack of understanding of humanity, and the subjectivness of those terms.
    I certainly didn't mean to imply that. In fact, if anything, I was trying to argue for a realistic view of human nature. Some of the most idealistic philosophies have led to some of the worst regimes and practices because they didn't take real human nature into account.

    I'm also not opposed to idealism in general and it has certainly spurred a huge number of positive changes over the course of human history. I just think idealism should be tempered with pragmatism and compassion. As Churchill said, "No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism."

    And I do think keeping that in mind is good for us Fi-doms in general. We can be so idealistic and exacting that we forget to cut ourselves (usually) and others (sometimes) some slack.

  6. #86
    Senior Member alexx's Avatar
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    When it comes down to it - I think any type can be a douche. Saying that, I may not understand well, but isn't Fi and Fe what makes us in tune with others emotions? I would think the ability to pick up on that and know when we create conflict or hurt someone we are the most likely type to make it STOP.

    Maybe I'm reading it all wrong - this stuff gets confusing - however I would think being an idealist that you would really want the best for those around you (At least most of us).

    89% Extroverted ~ 68% Intuition ~ 84% Feeling ~ 89% Perceiving
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  7. #87
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    I think MBTI is frequently misinterpreted as a set of character traits, when it really describes your set of cognitive processes. While these processes will lead to certain types exhibiting common behavioral tendencies so as to make behavioral typing pretty useful, any and all actions are permitted by the theory: just the underpinning psychological motivations, justifications, and perceptions will be different across types.



  8. #88
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    I, unfortunately, know the truth.

    The most cruel-and even evil-person i met was an INFP.

    But it was simply a twisted version of herself. From her childhood experiences to a recent incapacitating loss she suffered through, everything only changed her more. Her personality, on good days, would be that of an INFP. But on other days she would revert to a shadow of the kind person she used to be. She wasn't just cruel to everyone--it was a ruthlessness that I'd never seen nor heard of before. Being an INFP just reinforced the way she did things. Every word hurt her as much as it hurt everyone else, and the way she could understand emotions--her empathy--was only used to slam down others, cause more and more pain on higher and deeper levels.

    I have to admit it was the saddest thing i'd ever seen, because while everyone else hated her for it, i saw that it was a double-sided cruelty. she did it to hurt herself just as well. she saw life as an opportunity to get even with everyone and atone for everything she'd done.

    And that, my friends, is ruthless.

  9. #89
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I think MBTI is frequently misinterpreted as a set of character traits, when it really describes your set of cognitive processes. While these processes will lead to certain types exhibiting common behavioral tendencies so as to make behavioral typing pretty useful, any and all actions are permitted by the theory: just the underpinning psychological motivations, justifications, and perceptions will be different across types.
    FTW!! Exactly. Outward actions may be the same but the motivations and decision making calculus completely different.

    For the OP, yes, all of the above, like the other temperaments.

  10. #90
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    xD. I've thought of what it would be like and being evil alot, hehe. It doesn't mean I'll become evil. Exactly described here on the outside, and possibly evil on the inside.. mwahaha.

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