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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    That's because you're looking at people through your typology monocle, and it's rather narrow perspective.
    I am sorry if you feel boxed in. That wasn't my intention.

    Those are just very broad perspectives. I wish there were better words to connect with the endless supply of individual choices than maybe/perhaps/possibly. If there are - I don't know them, not that I planned on ... you know. My apologies.

  2. #242
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    I am sorry if you feel boxed in. That wasn't my intention.

    Those are just very broad perspectives. I wish there were better words to connect with the endless supply of individual choices than maybe/perhaps/possibly. If there are - I don't know them, not that I planned on ... you know. My apologies.
    Yes, you damn well better.

    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Yes, you damn well better.

    1


    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    OK

  4. #244
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    INFJs seem attracted to ENTPs and I find this strange. Apart from the usual attraction to Ne and seemingly similar Fe/Ti languages.

    Perhaps INFJs like telling and inventing people's stories so much that an empty and malleable ENTP is like a canvass for them.
    Maybe they get a kick out of trying to fill the inside of an ENTP with good proper filling.
    Maybe they are trying to use ENTPs as a vehicle to deliver their personal visions to the outside world.
    Maybe INFJs are afraid of how the world crushes their vision and find looking at it through Ne safer and more manageable.
    Maybe to some extend some INFJs wish they would be more in touch with the world (Ne) and more orderly inside (Ti).
    the "usual" you mention is the most unusual experience. that of feeling completely understood. to feel completely comfortable as you are.

    as for what you describe, all of those fit for my experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    OK

    Maybe ENTPs like to think of themselves as good individuals. A parent aux Fe enables them in this regard.
    Maybe ENTPs would like to have complex inner selves and welcome the INFJs filling them with their dreams and expectations. Or perhaps see themselves through the INFJs' eyes that make them appear more complex.
    Maybe ENTPs want a long term vision and INFJs provide it with their Ni.
    Maybe ENTPs need to feel loved and approved of and the INFJs provide some of that. Socionics supports that ISFJs provide it better, maybe because they can also assist with the anima(us) Si and ESTPs can help INFJs with Se. If you prefer to believe any of these theories is your choice.

    Maybe ENTPs like to think they have deep, lasting feelings and INFJs enable that self-perception. IMO there is a lot of communication issues as each sees their own parent in the other but possibly overestimate his/her decision making authority in the person themselves. Esp. at the usual first relationships age 20-30. An INFJ will analyze and Ti is evident but not as autonomous like ENTPs' Ti in its decision making authority. At the same time a stronger connection with Ti in ENTPs might mean that their feeling of self at that stage of their lives is more strongly attached to "Truth and clarity" than to Fe's "Harmony and others". Vice versa in many younger INFJs who would sacrifice concise speech for the sake of others' emotions. The great differences in what is meant and what is understood appear hidden in the apparent similarities.

    Maybe ENTPs need to talk about themselves and INFJs are more willing to listen than most others. They are introverts with strong interest in other people.
    Maybe ENTPs don't want to think about their past and maybe they see in INFJs a ready-made connection between the past and the future (Ni).

    I don't want to argue. Don't bother. Just throwing in some perspectives.
    i also see these relating very well to the infj-entp dynamics i have experienced and witnessed. the basic gist for me is that this seems like a perfect teacher for my needs. in general, ntps, their developer skills, are what i need most in order to live the life i want to live, to be who i want to be. waking up my own ability to tell my own story and stay with my experience but still trust in the context that is being woven together, to recognize a complexity that allows me to feel open-ended and receptive to the infinite possibilities of life without feeling like i am simply trapped in particulars that have lost their universalizing meaning.

  5. #245
    Member DisneyFanGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fourplay View Post
    I believe you're talking about immature ENTPs. It takes us awhile into our 20s to really shine. INFJs love me.
    Actually I'm talking about immature INFJs. One of them has an insufferable superiority complex and she acts like she's supposed to be serious all the time. And when she DOES decide to let loose, she's always controlling herself to make sure she's not TOO crazy. This would drive both ENTPs I know completely nuts. And both of them are actually fairly mature, I don't see any of the "ENTP arrogance" in either one.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    what i need most in order to live the life i want to live, to be who i want to be
    This is just a what-if


    What if it's not about developing ourselves into what we ought to be but rather it's about what we discover we are?
    What if there is no personal development, no higher purpose to life, no pyramid of needs?

    I am tricking you little bit here, I feel playful

    Just think about it

  7. #247
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    This is just a what-if


    What if it's not about developing ourselves into what we ought to be but rather it's about what we discover we are?
    What if there is no personal development, no higher purpose to life, no pyramid of needs?

    I am tricking you little bit here, I feel playful

    Just think about it
    where there's an it there's an ought.

    i recognize the value of presence a great deal. as my biggest challenge, i see why i am how i am when particularly without presence. i recognize the value of all functions. with Ne, the added benefit is that it is simply easier to communicate about that kind of presence (to globally contextual for an Ni user), although in practice, as a practice, the natural kind of mirroring that happens when i am around others is useful with either Ne or Se, if i have the presence of mind to use them as a metronome. but it's different when you also feel like you can not only play catch but also do team juggling with a seemingly endless array of connections happening in all rhythms.

    i know the look i get from Se types. it can be a bit demoralizing/alienating, but it's also a sensitive issue for me because it can get frustrating when your best games aren't playable with others/you feel like a crazy person.

  8. #248
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    Compelling... and insightful -- Thanks for sharing.

  9. #249
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    I'm not sure this dynamic exists. I get along with some ENTP's and not with others, although id wager that whether or not I get along with them has nothing to do with their type in this theory.

    Of course the idea that a type necessarily inclines towards certain pairings is odd to me.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #250
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Did Mane start this thread?

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