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Thread: There is no God

  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle View Post
    This is exactly why I currently consider myself agnostic. I was raised in the Christian faith, and I was always taught that believing in God implies belief in the absolute truth (whether in a literal or metaphorical sense) and infallibility of everything in the Bible. There are many things in the Bible that I just don't agree with and cannot hold to be true. According to my early Biblical education, if God exists, then the Bible is all true and right. So to me, the fact that (I believe) that there are some very wrong and untrue things in the Bible implies that God is not real.

    At earlier times in my life, I considered myself "saved" as was defined by my church at the time, I had accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior and all that. Now I'm not even sure I believe in God, which according to this would be an unforgivable sin if I died right now. So am I saved or am I damned? This all seems very contradictory.
    Who is to say?

    Anyway, the first part is interesting, I have said things which you dont agree with do you think that perhaps I dont exist? I'm not being facetious and not trying to catch you out either (wouldnt dream of it) but do you see what I mean by drawing the comparison?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Isn't the bible more about agreeing with the supposed unique-yet-multiple deity than stating whether it exists or not (the bible tends to assume existence )
    There are atheists who believe that the bible does not suggest supernatural or otherworldly beliefs, for instance Fuerbach or Fromm.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Isn't the bible more about agreeing with the supposed unique-yet-multiple deity than stating whether it exists or not (the bible tends to assume existence )
    That's not the point. Of course the Bible assumes existence. But if I don't believe in God in the first place, I have no reason to believe in the Bible, so why would I consult the Bible to find out if God exists? The problem for me is that I started out believing in God and the Bible, and was taught that you can't really believe in one without believing in the other. But now I definitely don't believe some of the stuff in the Bible. So that makes me question whether the whole thing was just a load of crap all along.
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  4. #284
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    The problem for me is that I started out believing in God and the Bible
    Why? trust in your parents or something?

    I never understood why it took so much time for ppl to figure out the utter lack of sense, coherence and moral of something that is supposed to be absolute and a moral arrow. Independantly from the fact that all claims\proofs\evidence seem counter factual

    Makes sense in children though. Under developed prefrontal cortex + early endoctrination.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Who is to say?

    Anyway, the first part is interesting, I have said things which you dont agree with do you think that perhaps I dont exist? I'm not being facetious and not trying to catch you out either (wouldnt dream of it) but do you see what I mean by drawing the comparison?
    Yeah, but you don't claim to be all-knowing, perfect or infallible, either. I see what you're saying, but it's also different with a human being. I've talked to you and seen pictures of you; I know you exist!
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    I'd like to know the answer to this myself. I was a very devout Lutheran earlier in my life. Am I still OK then even though I am now an atheist?
    Have you read Confessions of a Justified Sinner by Hogg?

    Its something I ask of all Lutherans I meet, given what I understand of predestination as presented by Luther and Calvin in their writing, I've read them both and read Luther and Erasmus' discourse on Free Will, very interesting stuff.

    Anyway, have you read Matthew? It is the only book which has Jesus explicitly speak about judgement and the afterlife, providing more than a clue about salvation and damnation.

    He does not mention religious practices, he does not mention fidelity to laws, he does not mention sect or creed or class or anything of that kind, he describes how those expecting salvation have not proven themselves when they have had the opportunity and those who did not expect salvation have been doing it all along.

    This was part of the big reformation era battle about salvation by faith and works or salvation by faith alone, now, the RCC has reconciled, on paper at least, with the Lutheran church, acknowledged completely that salvation can by faith, or rather grace, alone. That salvation is a gift from God as God being the creator and author of all needs nothing from his creation or created beings, therefore it is impossible to earn, deserve or win salvation by your actions.

    While I can understand the logic at work there it is not what Jesus himself taught, it is not what he lived out himself in his own life and I'm going with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Why? trust in your parents or something?

    I never understood why it took so much time for ppl to figure out the utter lack of sense, coherence and moral of something that is supposed to be absolute and a moral arrow. Independantly from the fact that all claims\proofs\evidence seem counter factual

    Makes sense in children though. Under developed prefrontal cortex + early endoctrination.
    Yeah, trust in my grandma, actually. My parents were both lapsed Christians for most of my early life. They were both raised in very religious households, but my dad is an atheist, and my mom is a believer but not religious. That probably has something to do with my current state of affairs, as well. I think the main thing is that I was taught to believe as a child, and once you are raised to believe one thing, it is pretty hard to shake that belief, even if you come to realize that there are some holes in its foundation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle View Post
    Yeah, but you don't claim to be all-knowing, perfect or infallible, either. I see what you're saying, but it's also different with a human being. I've talked to you and seen pictures of you; I know you exist!
    Are you sure? It could be an elaborate plot (alright I dont want to persist with this and leave everyone thinking I dont really exist).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Are you sure? It could be an elaborate plot
    Well, that's a good point. Guess I'll have to verify in September!
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  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Why? trust in your parents or something?

    I never understood why it took so much time for ppl to figure out the utter lack of sense, coherence and moral of something that is supposed to be absolute and a moral arrow. Independantly from the fact that all claims\proofs\evidence seem counter factual

    Makes sense in children though. Under developed prefrontal cortex + early endoctrination.


    It makes you wonder how it has persisted doesnt it? Also how anything like the old and new testaments could be written in the first place, pretty articulate documents for having been composed by a bunch of intellectually infantile, incoherent and insensible authors.

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