User Tag List

First 8161718192028 Last

Results 171 to 180 of 330

Thread: There is no God

  1. #171
    ReflecTcelfeR
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    What 'allows' me to say anything? In any case, I wasn't saying that God is everything, but rather that an undefinable god, a logically absurd god, is a god that doesn't exist or is unrecognisable as anything like a conventional god. If 'god' cannot be defined, if it doesn't even have to make sense, then you aren't saying anything when you refer to 'God' or 'Him', because those words have no discernible meaning. It's not arrogant to try and define what one means by 'God', especially for theists who wish to understand and relate to Him. The only concepts that can't be defined are those that do not exist at all, like the highest prime number or a number greater than 2 but less than 1. A God to whom you cannot, in principle, consistently assign any properties, is no God at all, never mind the God of the The Bible (who conspicuously is some things and not other things).
    So you are saying that if you cannot define God then there is really no God? If so… Then can you see the problem with this thought?

  2. #172
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    1,211

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    So you are saying that if you cannot define God then there is really no God? If so… Then can you see the problem with this thought?
    A definition is just an abstract category.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  3. #173
    ReflecTcelfeR
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    I suspect you think that by 'define God' I mean that one should be able to say exactly what God is and is not, once and for all, with no chance of being wrong. Why you would make such a stupid assumption baffles me, but people often baffle me. A definition is just an abstract category.
    So… No. Alright. Then you can not know if an illogical God exists. Then you cannot say that a logical god has to exist.

  4. #174
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    6,747

    Default

    It seems kind of silly to talk about God in this light.
    Like, "we're humans, we're so smart, so scientific, so much better than God, that we're going to find out what it is. And if we, as humans, can't figure out what it is, then it doesn't exist. Because if there was a God, he would let us figure him out, because we're so big and important and it is necessary."
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  5. #175
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,489

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    I'm saying that anti-rational positions (i.e. positions which deflect any and all possible criticism) tend to beget violent conflict, especially on religious matters. Rather than promoting agnosticism about the nature of God, retreating to the 'God doesn't have to make sense' argument just immunises conflicting visions of God from criticism. Such argumentative tactics are subversive to a civil society which encourages us to fight with words rather than swords.
    At the root of everybody's belief is a irrational ideology: it's better to live than to die. Everything else is an extension of that. Concepts like God and order have as much benefit to society and the individual as negative aspects. Eitherway, they're with us till the end. Ultimately, some sort of widespread culture of tolarance, backed up with a large sword (a bit of an irony, har har) is the only thing I can see bringing peace, not the hope that everybody will suddently start behaving against their natures.

  6. #176
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    1,211

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    So… No. Alright. Then you can not know if an illogical God exists. Then you cannot say that a logical god has to exist.
    I can say anything I want to. It's not like the epistemological police will come and arrest me for saying stating something that I don't know to be true. In any case, the relevant question is not what I am "allowed" to say, but whether what I am saying is true or false. Retorting with 'you're not allowed to say that!' is besides the point in the extreme. I have explained why the notion of an 'illogical God' is nothing like what people mean when they refer to 'God', because an 'illogical God' would no more be a god than a logically absurd dog would be a cat. A logically absurd dog is something that just doesn't exist: it is neither really a dog nor really a cat. When people say the word 'God' in a sentence, they mean something by it: they are referring to an entity with definite properties. Maybe they are wrong about what properties God really has, or perhaps there are properties of God which they are not aware of, but they are nonetheless talking about a being that is explicable. All your criticism of this argument amounts to is 'your'e not allowed to say that! You have no right! You could be wrong!', which is all well and good but entirely irrelevant.

    I could be wrong, supposing I'm wrong, but if I'm right, then I am certainly right.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  7. #177
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    And the discussion takes a new turn.

  8. #178
    ReflecTcelfeR
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    I can say anything I want to. It's not like the epistemological police will come and arrest me for saying stating something that I don't know to be true. In any case, the relevant question is not what I am "allowed" to say, but whether what I am saying is true or false. Retorting with 'you're not allowed to say that!' is besides the point in the extreme. I have explained why the notion of an 'illogical God' is nothing like what people mean when they refer to 'God', because an 'illogical God' would no more be a god than a logically absurd dog would be a cat. A logically absurd dog is something that just doesn't exist: it is neither really a dog nor really a cat. When people say the word 'God' in a sentence, they mean something by it: they are referring to an entity with definite properties. Maybe they are wrong about what properties God really has, or perhaps there are properties of God which they are not aware of, but they are nonetheless talking about a being that is explicable. All your criticism of this argument amounts to is 'your'e not allowed to say that! You have no right! You could be wrong!', which is all well and good but entirely irrelevant.
    I apologize. You can say whatever you wish, you just may be wrong; I personally cannot live with that certainty, but being illogical does exist so technically logic could be an invention of man and god is apart from that.

  9. #179
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    I apologize. You can say whatever you wish, you just may be wrong; I personally cannot live with that certainty, but being illogical does exist so technically logic could be an invention of man and god is apart from that.
    There is the perspective that god is bound by the laws of logic.

  10. #180
    ReflecTcelfeR
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    There is the perspective that god is bound by the laws of logic.
    Why is he bound by it? Because we're bound by it?

    edit. But we aren't bound by logic because we can still be illogical. I don't see why it's so hard to accept an illogical god.

Similar Threads

  1. If there is no god of any kind...
    By iNtrovert in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 09-19-2013, 09:55 AM
  2. When there is no personality to type.
    By Tabula in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09-04-2010, 10:24 AM
  3. In Charity There is No Excess - Help Type Me!!
    By Applez in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 04-22-2010, 10:45 PM
  4. There is no such thing as personality.
    By ygolo in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-12-2009, 10:13 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO