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  1. #31
    sophiloist Kaizer's Avatar
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    if I may please be allowed to take a jab at sorta trying to sorta kinda summarize this so called 'discussion' :


    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
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    Silly Arabs....
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    I am honestly shocked ...
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    I'm honestly shocked ....
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    Please . . .
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    And the USA wins again!
    EDIT : my apologies if I failed miserably at my so called 'attempt'. please be kind.
    The answer must be in the attempt
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  2. #32
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    I am a proponent for free speech but people often forget just because you're free to say something doesn't mean that its nice to say it. Besides, the cartoons seemed to me to have more to do with provoking a reaction from Muslims, and less to do with meaningful commentary.

    As much as I defend Islam, I do think they should learn how to better cope when people question or undermine the religion. But we must remember, Christianity has had 200+ years to get used to criticism whereas most Muslims come from nations where it has long been forbidden to do so. Give them a bit of a break and some time to adjust.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  3. #33
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    I'm not sure if it's been said, but offense is taken from any visual portrayal of Muhammad, not just those that would make a mockery of him. Merely portraying the prophet of the Muslim faith is a punishable offense, which kinda nullifies your libel/defamation argument. (the South Park episode concerning his portrayal illustrates this nicely)

    [YOUTUBE="QG0quz3Gu8g"]Muhammad[/YOUTUBE]

  4. #34
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    There was very little outcry when South Park first protrayed him in the Super Best Friends episode.

  5. #35
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    ^ Yep, it's funny things aren't such a big deal when people forget to be offended.

  6. #36
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Why do so many people feel the need to treat violent Muslims as if they need to be handled with retarded-kid gloves? Are they retarded kids? Other than that, I can't think of any reason why people should be apologizing for a newspaper, editor or an individual expressing an opinion so that muslims won't get offended and burn shit down...
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    Do you think it's okay to offend hundreds of millions of people in the name of satire, just for the sake of doing so?
    I personally don't think so, and I was pretty mad during the abovementioned controversy. I believe it in inexcusable to mock something so many people find precious and sacred. It was also a pretty stupid move by the newspaper. They must have known that the cartoons would create a big reaction in the Middle East.
    I am completely aligned with you on that. Sad times.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I'm not sure if it's been said, but offense is taken from any visual portrayal of Muhammad, not just those that would make a mockery of him. Merely portraying the prophet of the Muslim faith is a punishable offense, which kinda nullifies your libel/defamation argument. (the South Park episode concerning his portrayal illustrates this nicely)

    [YOUTUBE="QG0quz3Gu8g"]Muhammad[/YOUTUBE]
    Well, sort of.

    The permissibility of depictions of Muhammad, the founder of Islam, has long been a concern in Islam's history. Oral and written descriptions are readily accepted by all traditions of Islam, but there is disagreement about visual depictions.[1][2]

    The Qur'an does not explicitly forbid images of Muhammad, but there are a few hadith (supplemental teachings) which have explicitly prohibited Muslims from creating the visual depictions of figures. Most Sunni Muslims believe that visual depictions of all the prophets of Islam should be prohibited, and they are particularly averse to visual representations of Muhammad.[3] The key concern is that the use of images can encourage idolatry. In recent times, some Muslims have taken a more relaxed view. Most Shia scholars nowadays accept respectful depictions and use illustrations of Muhammad in books,[citation needed] though historically they were against such depictions.[4] Still, many Muslims who take a stricter view of the supplemental traditions, will sometimes challenge any depiction of Muhammad, including those created and published by non-Muslims.[5]

    In Islamic art, depictions were never devotional images, but appear in illustrated books that are normally works of history or poetry; the Qu'ran is never illustrated: "context and intent are essential to understanding Islamic pictorial art. The Muslim artists creating images of Muhammad, and the public who beheld them, understood that the images were not objects of worship. Nor were the objects so decorated used as part of religious worship".[6] Most visual depictions only show Muhammad with his face veiled, or symbolically represent him as a flame; other images, notably from before about 1500, show him fully.[7] However, depictions of Muhammad were rare, never numerous in any community or era throughout Islamic history,[8] appearing almost entirely in the private medium of the Persian miniature book illustration, and those of other Islamic cultures
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depictions_of_Muhammad

    Here is an entire gallery: http://zombietime.com/mohammed_image...o_face_hidden/

    And this is a fully fledged portrait of the prophet and the angel Gabriel:


    the Sout Park video is funny though.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    Libel is a legal offense. I believe you can extend the moral justification of those laws to include defamation of something that is spiritually cherished by many.
    Defamation unfairly diminishes the victim's standing in society. The dishonesty is what makes it wrong. Intentionally angering or hurting someone's feelings might not be nice, but no dishonesty is involved. The two are not comparable.

  10. #40
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Obviously what we've got here is failure to communicate. Some muslims you just can't reach. So you get what we had here today, which is the way she wants it... well, she gets it. I don't like it any more than you.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


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