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  1. #411
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    When it comes down to it Robert. You're just too caught up on a word. A word that you don't fully understand, nor do I understand. You dismiss the fact that there are lots of different interpretation on what hell actually is, and whether it's actually that much of a negative thing.

    For you.

    It's basically

    Christian: Hell is bad.
    Athiests: I'm choosing to go to hell.
    You: That's just wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Why?

    Frame it all in another way. The story that many christians often use: A child decides to leave his father because he doesn't believe in him anymore, this can be the same thing as the child choosing hell over love (God)

    Now the only thing I'll agree with you here is that according to that story, he may return after having left. That hell should not be an eternal place of damnation. But as I've said over and over again, nobody knows for certain what hell is and whether it's travelling to there is a permenant single-way destination.

    Some christians argue that it's not possible to return once a choice has been made, and I see some logic in that, but then I'd agree with you that it seems unfair to have millions of people have to make that choice before death. I'd be more inclined to believe that God is actually a forgiving individual that lets people make their own choices, once they have experienced him and are doing so in a rational mind (i.e. People losing faith in God when humanities is evil/deaths). For God to blaim these individual for being human seems kind of... wrong considering they are his own creation.
    those are all relatively nice thoughts, compared to what is found in the bible. but the point is, none of that is stated in the bible.
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  2. #412
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    those are all relatively nice thoughts, compared to what is found in the bible. but the point is, none of that is stated in the bible.
    Do you actually know what is in the bible? I'm inclined to say no.
    Can you really argue about something while having little knowledge on the subject matter? Why not just admit that you don't know that much about christianity apart from surface understanding. If you truly want to argue against it, then you should research more, but you don't even want to dedicate time to finding out whether you truly do understand.

    You choose to ignore the whole discussion on the nature of hell and most importantly why christians have different ideas regarding it's nature. Doesn't that speak volumes? That the issue is not black and white.

    Fine it doesn't matter anymore. Believe whatever you want to believe about christianity. I'll just leave it with this. The scientific method tries to understand things/entertain alternative positions without placing emotional judgement on things.

  3. #413
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Do you actually know what is in the bible? I'm inclined to think you know it about as much as me, which is very little.

    Once again... You choose to ignore the whole discussion on the nature of hell and most importantly why christians have different ideas regarding it's nature. Doesn't that speak volumes? That the issue is not black and white.

    Fine it doesn't matter anymore. Believe whatever you want to believe about christianity.
    the issue is black and white
    you either agree with what the bible says, or you don't
    to disagree with the bible, and still be christian
    seems pretty silly to me
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  4. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    the issue is black and white
    you either agree with what the bible says, or you don't
    to disagree with the bible, and still be christian
    seems pretty silly to me
    You're fighting a Fundamentalist straw-man that seems to dissolve and manifest at will. The Bible has very strong historical context; therefore what it has to say should be known by that context. Furthermore, there are symbolic connotations and underlying etiologies that descend below what you pick from the Bible at face-value. The Bible isn't just a book with words written on it. It's a lexicon, it's a guide, and it's a historical document.

  5. #415
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    You're fighting a Fundamentalist straw-man that seems to dissolve and manifest at will. The Bible has very strong historical context; therefore what it has to say should be known by that context. Furthermore, there are symbolic connotations and underlying etiologies that descend below what you pick from the Bible at face-value. The Bible isn't just a book with words written on it. It's a lexicon, it's a guide, and it's a historical document.
    no, the bible says what it says. its really interesting that you don't dispute what is written there. you just come up with real wordy reasons why we should ignore it.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  6. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    no, the bible says what it says. its really interesting that you don't dispute what is written there. you just come up with real wordy reasons why we should ignore it.
    Lol. You should read G.K. Chesterton. BTW Christianity is not solely based on the Bible, but tradition as well.

    I'll write more later.

    ALSO, undertaking studying the Bible is serious business. In fact, you would be advised to study the Second Temple period of Judaism and learn Greek.

  7. #417
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    no, the bible says what it says. its really interesting that you don't dispute what is written there. you just come up with real wordy reasons why we should ignore it.


    "Heaven or hell is determined by whether a person believes (puts their trust) in Christ alone to save them (John 3:16, 36, )."

    “The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because generally they are the same people.”

    “To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” - G.K. Chesterton

  8. #418
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    "Heaven or hell is determined by whether a person believes (puts their trust) in Christ alone to save them (John 3:16, 36, )."

    “The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because generally they are the same people.”

    “To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” - G.K. Chesterton
    the second 2 dont matter so much
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    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  9. #419
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    the second 2 dont matter so much
    It's a shame you think so.

  10. #420
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    It's a shame you think so.
    ah yes, becasue focsuing on something else really makes john 3:16 an acceptable moral doctorine
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    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

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