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Thread: MBTI and Islam

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    I've learnt something special about you Victor... about your mind.
    edit: Please don't take this as a compliment. It's not
    Agreed, one would think someone would learn to be rational. Victor sounds like a hypocrite to me. Apologies if this seems personal but really, attacking a religion for the flaws of individuals?:steam:

  2. #32
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    In its inception, Islam was very pro science and knowledge. A lot of mathematics and other science comes from Arabic Islamic states during the European dark ages. While we are at it, the dark ages were also not really anti-enlightenment. The dark age churches were probably more of a light house for education and knowledge. The dark ages probably had more to do with the fall of civilization than religion. Similarly, Islam is not inherently anti-knowledge, its the fact that they did not rapidly progress since then, and now view the outside intrusion as an attack from outsiders. Outsiders could be secular or religious.
    I reckon that the political islamists are a little like some of the old style class warriors, they envy prosperity and attribute their lack thereof to oppression, yet are unwilling to do what is called for to create the same prosperity for themselves because it would seem like a betrayal of their first principles.

    Unless there is integral to islam a rennaisance, enlightenment, reformation, secular revolutions and the counter currents of each, as occured integrally within the "Christian" or western world those necessary aspects of modernity will be perceived as alien and alienating, foreign, strange and threatening.

    However it would a gross mistake to persume that there is anything like the supposed consensus in either the islamic world or its "other", ie us (if that in itself is not presumptious). Modernity has not been universally embraced, there is not also agreement as to what it means.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kambro View Post
    Agreed, one would think someone would learn to be rational. Victor sounds like a hypocrite to me. Apologies if this seems personal but really, attacking a religion for the flaws of individuals?:steam:
    Religions can be flawed too but then generalisations can build walls rather than bridges.

  4. #34
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    Victor's tertiary Ni (he is ISFP) goes absolutely nuts when it comes to Islam. Victor's such a fluffy bunny!

    Edited by geoff to remove insult and aggressive behaviour
    Last edited by Geoff; 12-10-2009 at 04:25 PM.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #35
    Senior Member wank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Victor's tertiary Ni (he is ISFP) goes absolutely nuts when it comes to Islam. Blah blah fucking blah, it's an international conspiracy, whatever, idiot. Nobody cares.
    You know, the fact that you seem so emotional about this totally gives credence to his trolling abilities. Because he is opposed to you, you have this pleasant confirmation bias of his 'type'[if you need explanation, I can give], further lending credence to his saying typology is crap. You make me smile

    elsewhile: ...Still holdin' out to see some Islamic scripture for a referential base of various views.
    Everyone is a case study.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    <Victor is a fluffybunny!>
    The man, the myth, the legend (in his own mind) has spoken!
    Now that the bullshit is out of the way, Victor is a raging N.
    Victor eats, sleeps, walks, and talks metaphor.


    Now, go make me a dirty martini so I can be nice when reading your posts.
    We have winds gusting at 40-50 m.p.h. right now,
    and the damn lights keep going on and off like the synapses in your brain.
    Last edited by Bellflower; 12-10-2009 at 03:41 PM. Reason: to match the prior edit to the original post

  7. #37
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I reckon that the political islamists are a little like some of the old style class warriors, they envy prosperity and attribute their lack thereof to oppression, yet are unwilling to do what is called for to create the same prosperity for themselves because it would seem like a betrayal of their first principles.
    I disagree with this. You have to see the Middle East in the context of its history of colonialism and the subsequent propping up by Western powers of puppet governments there. Not to mention the on-going occupation of Palestine. I disagree that “political Islamists” envy the West for its prosperity. There are a lot of pro-Western Arabs but the “political Islamists” especially do not envy the West. In my experience, many people from the West automatically assume that their way of life is the best way and that other people would be very happy to live like them and should envy them and they pity the poor Arabs, Asians or whatever because they aren't “free”. It's not true. There are millions of people who don't want to live like that and don't envy it.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Unless there is integral to islam a rennaisance, enlightenment, reformation, secular revolutions and the counter currents of each, as occured integrally within the "Christian" or western world those necessary aspects of modernity will be perceived as alien and alienating, foreign, strange and threatening.
    I find this is a very common view in the West of how Islam is seen. Like looking at Islam and judging it through the lens of a very specific cultural context of the Catholic Church, the break from it of Protestants, the Enlightenment, etc. You cannot assume that Islam is the same as Christianity, that its presence in traditionally Islamic cultures and societies is the same as that of Christianity in its history. In traditionally Christian cultures Christianity stood for something backward, and leaving behind the irrationalities of Christian doctrine meant embracing “modernity”, “rationality” and “secularism”, etc. The links in these associations are hardly questioned by many people who think it's normal and just assume it. Islam of course did not develop in the same way, it has its own context and its teachings are different, although very similar in many ways to Christian ones. You can't just say that it should also go the way of the Rennaisance, the Enlightenment, etc. That just doesn't make sense.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Now, go make me a dirty martini so I can be nice when reading your posts.
    We have winds gusting at 40-50 m.p.h. right now,
    and the damn lights keep going on and off like the synapses in your brain.
    Not a bad metaphor.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by wank View Post
    ... , further lending credence to his saying typology is crap. You make me smile ....


    If its crap what the hell is he doing here. Typology is like anything else - a guide, principles but to interpreted as per the circumstances and situation.

    As a borderline J/P my behaviour will not fit into a neat pigeonhole. Same as my ENTJ friend with a low E. Different ratings for J's will mean different reactions to same situation etc..
    Last edited by Kambro; 12-10-2009 at 12:29 AM. Reason: missing words

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