[Multiple Personality Systems] Astrology's Planet Archetypes and MBTI Letter Code/Cognitive Functions

[Mole]

Not one astronomer in the whole world believes in astrology.

I attended a global meeting of astronomers at the Australian National University and I asked them about astrology. And quite spontaneously they laughed at me.

So astronomers all over the world laugh at astrologers.

 

[iauiugu]

Not one astronomer in the whole world believes in astrology.

I attended a global meeting of astronomers at the Australian National University and I asked them about astrology. And quite spontaneously they laughed at me.

So astronomers all over the world laugh at astrologers.

Yes well I find most physical scientists of all stripes find astrology laughable. It has more to do with the humanities and social sciences anyways, fields that often have members with less of a knee-jerk reaction to it, and are more often of personalities amenable to it.

I think you're speaking too absolutely for your own good though. Many astronomers in India would probably disagree with your assertion.

 

[iauiugu]

Ceres and Pluto, eh..

eheh yeah the two non-transneptunian minor planets of the solar system (at least part of the time for pluto)

they weren't even named in relation to each other

 

[Mole]

Yes well I find most physical scientists of all stripes find astrology laughable. It has more to do with the humanities and social sciences anyways, fields that often have members with less of a knee-jerk reaction to it, and are more often of personalities amenable to it.

I think you're speaking too absolutely for your own good though. Many astronomers in India would probably disagree with your assertion.

Astrology is a confidence trick, and mbti is astrology for the college educated.

 

[senza tema]

Yes well I find most physical scientists of all stripes find astrology laughable. It has more to do with the humanities and social sciences anyways, fields that often have members with less of a knee-jerk reaction to it, and are more often of personalities amenable to it.

I think you're speaking too absolutely for your own good though. Many astronomers in India would probably disagree with your assertion.

They wouldn't be very good astronomers if they did, tbh. Astrology is not a scientific discipline. Which is not to say that scientists can't believe in it; they're probably not using their scientific training to bolster that belief though. (Though I will say that belief in "science," as any good historian of science will tell you, should be subjected to the same scrutiny that we subject other beliefs to.)

Full disclosure: I dabble in astrology/tarot myself and know a little bit about reading charts, etc. Now, while I'll admit that it's more than just a party trick for me, I still strongly hesitate to say I believe in it. While a part of me would like to believe in a world where the preternatural and divinatory practices have some basis, I more or less accept that they probably don't.

 

[Mole]

Astrology is our ur-religion, our first religion on which most of the others are based, click on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD9f0XU_S78

And we know today from astronomy that astrology had no understanding of the stars, and so astrology is simply wrong, a natural mistake for primitive people to make.

And if astrology is our ur-religion, then all subsequent religions based on astrology, say Christianity with the twelve disciples based on the twelve signs of the zodiac, are simply mistaken like astrology.

 

[iauiugu]

They wouldn't be very good astronomers if they did, tbh. Astrology is not a scientific discipline. Which is not to say that scientists can't believe in it; they're probably not using their scientific training to bolster that belief though. (Though I will say that belief in "science," as any good historian of science will tell you, should be subjected to the same scrutiny that we subject other beliefs to.)

Full disclosure: I dabble in astrology/tarot myself and know a little bit about reading charts, etc. Now, while I'll admit that it's more than just a party trick for me, I still strongly hesitate to say I believe in it. While a part of me would like to believe in a world where the preternatural and divinatory practices have some basis, I more or less accept that they probably don't.

yeah many in the west do think India's consideration of astrology as a science is foolhardy at best

 

[iauiugu]

Astrology is our ur-religion, our first religion on which most of the others are based, click on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD9f0XU_S78

And we know today from astronomy that astrology had no understanding of the stars, and so astrology is simply wrong, a natural mistake for primitive people to make.

And if astrology is our ur-religion, then all subsequent religions based on astrology, say Christianity with the twelve disciples based on the twelve signs of the zodiac, are simply mistaken like astrology.

"astrology has no understanding of the stars"

what do you mean by this exactly? every printed astrologer i've read knows the stars in an astronomical sense as well astrology. they all make a point about it. it gets repetitive.

there's a lot of theoretical and cutting edge, scientifically-minded theory behind astrology out there, like Richard Tarnas's Cosmos and Theory. it's a follow-up of his academically standard Passion of the West

 

[Mole]

"astrology has no understanding of the stars"

what do you mean by this exactly? every printed astrologer i've read knows the stars in an astronomical sense as well astrology. they all make a point about it. it gets repetitive.

there's a lot of theoretical and cutting edge, scientifically-minded theory behind astrology out there, like Richard Tarnas's Cosmos and Theory. it's a follow-up of his academically standard Passion of the West

There is not even one scientific astrology theory. Astrology is not the slightest bit scientific, it is simply a confidence trick.

And so many want to be tricked. Reality is too painful to bear, so we want to be tricked into feeling better.

A good sex worker turns tricks for lonely men who want to feel better, and a good astrologer turns tricks for lonely women who also want to feel better. Far better the lonely men and women get together, rather than going to sex workers and astrologers.

 

[senza tema]

yeah many in the west do think India's consideration of astrology as a science is foolhardy at best

I'm Indian and I think for the most part it's a bunch of superstitious claptrap designed to prey on the anxieties of the gullible. I'm not suggesting that's unique to India ... fear mongering sells products like nothing else. But seriously come on ... rules like "don't start anything on a Saturday because it's inauspicious" or "women born under the influence of Mars will lead blighted loveless lives unless they marry trees and wear a dozen gem studded rings" ... It's as pernicious as it's idiotic.

I think astrology can be fun but seriously pinning your hopes, fears and ambitions on it is flat out dangerous.

 

[iauiugu]

I'm Indian and I think for the most part it's a bunch of superstitious claptrap designed to prey on the anxieties of the gullible. I'm not suggesting that's unique to India ... fear mongering sells products like nothing else. But seriously come on ... rules like "don't start anything on a Saturday because it's inauspicious" or "women born under the influence of Mars will lead blighted loveless lives unless they marry trees and wear a dozen gem studded rings" ... It's as pernicious as it's idiotic.

I think astrology can be fun but seriously pinning your hopes, fears and ambitions on it is flat out dangerous.

Yeeah as a westerner I find it difficult to take the determinism and specificity of Indian astrology seriously, in addition to how much theory it has well and beyond euro-american astrology that only makes it more impenetrable and fosters dependency on Those Who Know, the arbiters of astrological truth

Not that western astrology isn't largely as impenetrable, but it's not all that way, nor is it all deterministic. i personally find it without any predictive merit, but then very few things in the world are reliably predictable

 

[iauiugu]

There is not even one scientific astrology theory. Astrology is not the slightest bit scientific, it is simply a confidence trick.

And so many want to be tricked. Reality is too painful to bear, so we want to be tricked into feeling better.

A good sex worker turns tricks for lonely men who want to feel better, and a good astrologer turns tricks for lonely women who also want to feel better. Far better the lonely men and women get together, rather than going to sex workers and astrologers.

Jung and others have proposed the acausal ordering principle of synchronicity behind astrology; others hypothesize a causal relationship: EM solar activity is instigated by the planets revolving around the sun ==> solar wind hitting earth ==> atmospheric influences on human life, which lacks many mechanisms, but they haven't been proven to not exist

It's true that astrology as a whole isn't scientific, especially not in the falsifiable, popperian sense, but nothing can positivistically state that at least some of astrology can't be true or real. Even if it is all bunk and a millenia-long con, self-assuredly saying so with condescending analogies that don't address astrology as it exists for the millions of practioniers, believers, and dabblers, will accomplish nothing.

 

[iauiugu]

Updating the concept...

I got the relationships between the astrological and jungian categories when I found out the planetary symbolism is related to the tree of life in kabbalah -- with three additions on my part



Which set up polarities that were particularly fruitful with jungian type -- compared to the more common Mars-Venus and Jupiter-Saturn pairings of western astrology



which makes my idea even more mystically rooted and inclined than I let on, but hey

 

[Mole]

Jung and others have proposed the acausal ordering principle of synchronicity behind astrology; others hypothesize a causal relationship: EM solar activity is instigated by the planets revolving around the sun ==> solar wind hitting earth ==> atmospheric influences on human life, which lacks many mechanisms, but they haven't been proven to not exist

It's true that astrology as a whole isn't scientific, especially not in the falsifiable, popperian sense, but nothing can positivistically state that at least some of astrology can't be true or real. Even if it is all bunk and a millenia-long con, self-assuredly saying so with condescending analogies that don't address astrology as it exists for the millions of practioniers, believers, and dabblers, will accomplish nothing.

Telling the simple, unadorned truth is valuable in itself.

Whereas promoting a confidence trick does untold harm.

 

[iauiugu]

Telling the simple, unadorned truth is valuable in itself.

Whereas promoting a confidence trick does untold harm.

I don't believe in simple, unadorned truths. Truth with the big T is hard-won and difficult if at all possible to transmit to others. It is more often found on and in individual terms, a product of an accumulation of analogous experiences and ideas that click in the mind. to me it seems to take undue confidence to trick someone into thinking Truth can be expressed and received simply.

I see jungian type and (some of) astrology as accelerators in the process of Truth's apprehension. I see them on a sub-verbal emanations of the self-same fractal nature of the cosmos, something that defies simplicity

 

[GraffitiMuse]

Truly excited about your findings!

I've also come to the same conclusion and decided to test out this theory with the help of modern technology. You'd be amazed by how much push back I've received from attempted this.

 

[Mole]

Truly excited about your findings!

I've also come to the same conclusion and decided to test out this theory with the help of modern technology. You'd be amazed by how much push back I've received from attempted this.

No Astronomy Department in any university in the world teaches astrology. In fact if we mention astrology in any Astronomy Department, they laugh at us.

And no Psychology Department in any university in the world teaches mbti.

Yet our guru, Carl Jung, was an astrologer who invented psychological types which mbti plagiarised.