[ENFJ] ENFJ: Talk About Yourself!

[Usehername]

(edit) As the previous title seems to have been too specific...

All I really want is to understand the ENFJ motivations and inner life. Any input, example, thought in reference to that would be mightily appreciated.


What really pulls you toward someone? What kinds of things affect your soul? What kinds of behavior/personalities bug you?

I don't understand ENFJs. But sometimes I think they are my favorite.

 

[proteanmix]

I don't think ENFJs like to talk about themselves, I'd rather talk to and about other people.

But it's nice to know someone likes us.

 

[Elwin_Ransom]

Well, I'm utterly attracted to an INTP, and I think that these are some of the reasons why I find us so compatible in terms of personality (and, in effect, what draws me to her).

Intellect. I may be a feeling person, but I absolutely love her thinking nature. It holds a huge amount of pull for me. I don't see everything as it is at all times, so her generally-objective take on things is very attractive. This seems to be a matter of complimentary/compensatory typing, but I'm not sure how exactly it ties into the ENFJ mindset.

Passion. For me, it doesn't matter what her current object of focus is; any time she is passionate about something I get caught up in it. Even when it's something way over my head, her passion makes me want to understand it. This is probably tied to empathy, which I assume is part of the ENFJ type.

Compassion. Not necessarily the hallmark trait of an INTP, but seeing compassion show up is awesome. I don't think this is actually empathy, though. It probably just comes from the way that an ENFJ would probably consider compassion a happy thing, and so the ENFJ is happy when observing someone doing it because it is thought that the other person will be happy from doing so.

Humor. Humor is important to me for some reason. Her intelligent/dark humor is absolutely brilliant. I would think humor appreciation to be common among ENFJs, but I have nothing to base that on other than personal experience.

Hmm. I wonder how much of this is a personality type thing, and how much of it is bound to this specific pairing. I'm not really sure about that.

Anyway, that's a start on a list; I hope there's something helpful in it.

 

[Lookin4theBestNU]

As the previous title seems to have been too specific...

I saw the post last night. I really didn't think it was too specific, but was waiting for another ENFJ to get the ball rolling. There is just a small handful of ENFJs on this site so far, and we all seem to be a bit different from one another. I like to talk about myself sometimes hence the starting of a blog recently. I know that by talking about myself and by 'giving' a little here and there it opens others up to identify/differ and share about themselves. I think I am a little conceited though when comparing myself to other NFs a huge flaw I relalize. Eventually IRL especially my focus however will turn much more on the other person then myself. I have noticed that we don't like to make generalizations about other ENFJs or speak for each other. I will gladly give you the information you desire but it will be my own personal view. Authenticity/identity as you may know from PUMII is an underlying motivation for NFs in general .

All I really want is to understand the ENFJ motivations and inner life. Any input, example, thought in reference to that would be mightily appreciated.

Despite many of theories I have seen on Extroverts I have a vivid inner life that would surprise some people. I don't share it often because truth be told most people wouldn't want to hear it anyway. I am however glad that you asked . I do spend a great deal of time thinking about other people and THEIR motivations (external focus) but plenty on my own as well. I'm constantly watching people looking for 'potential' in themselves they may not have seen and I want to bring that out. My inner life seems to be spent discerning "what's really going here". In the past this has been problematic. I've been surrounded by S's who are much more literal my entire life. I have no Intuitive friends IRL and get my "N-action" here. I take very little in life at face value as it's presented to me. I have voiced what I was thinking many times and gotten the response "you are reading too much into this/that" or "wow that was really deep" when I didn't think it had much depth at all. I trust my Ni without doubt generally much more than my feelings.

I spend a great deal of time focusing on 'the whole of a system' or even the 'whole of humanity' etc. is the only way to describe it. I used to think that INFJs and ENFJs were basically the same with one being much quieter. I was wrong on that little theory. I actually don't mind being wrong about my theories as it gets me closer to the truth I'm seeking. It's not good enough for me to just theorize....I must test it. If the theory cannot be given an application or tested for it's validity in the realm of people I will generally disregard it. I am not going to type out a huge example (yes I'm lazy!) of this but I will give a brief one. I do 'experiments' but not in an NT view of experiments as that sounds scientific and I don't want to give the impression that they are. As a small example: I had a theory though on the difference between SFJ helpfulness/altruism and NFJ. I waited for an opportunity to arise to see the different reaction each of us would have. The test of my theory ended up happening more than once with homeless people approaching us and later people asking for various charities. I stayed very quiet as I wanted to view the initial reaction of the SFJ I was with. We later talked about how I would have handled it differently and why, and what was the motivation/thinking process of the SFJ. I have done the same thing with all different types of people the SFJ was just the most recent. My inner life is pretty darn full of things like this though not all of it revolves around MBTI just to make that clear. MBTI, other personality theories, currently some interest in a philosopher, and even the bible/religion gives me 'freebies' in the sense of I have others ideas to test and explore.

What really pulls you toward someone? What kinds of things affect your soul? What kinds of behavior/personalities bug you?

I am really fascinated by introverts honestly and always have been. I want to know what people are about. Introverts provide me with a challenge if you will. E's talk too much for my liking generally. I find it can be fun sometimes though when I am feel especially 'bubbly' as it only increases it to be around them. 2 E's fighting with one another to get a word in edgewise can be a sight to behold! I also generally like T's and they make up my closest circle of relationships. I have tons of F friends though. The one thing that can bother me more than anything about another person is if I come to view them as "needy". I like independent people and view myself as being fairly headstrong independent even rebellious at times. I have tried 'helping people' before and they ended up listening to my every word as if it were prophecy. I wish that was an exaggeration and it has proven to be really weird to me. I have found this has happened more with F's than T's though it's oddly happened with T's too. I use lots of qualifiers anymore because I don't want to sound like I know everything a person should do/not do or 'Oprah-esque' . I have insight I'd like to think and I know what I would do and why....but that doesn't make it right. I have spent time as an adult learning to watch people closer who have these 'needy' tendencies who will rely on my direction too much as occasionally my confidence attracts them. I know this may sound harsh but I avoid them like the plague!! Helping people reach their goals and explore their own inner workings keeps me going in life. The things that affect my soul will have to wait for my blog .

 

[Elwin_Ransom]

Can I just second what was said?

I think I misunderstood what was being looked for on this topic, but that pretty well describes my mentality as well. I just wasn't so articulate.

 

[Totenkindly]

More! More!

 

[proteanmix]

To be quite honest, I'm very reluctant to post anything about myself to revealing. It's not that I'm worried that anyone's going to show up at my front door, it's the effects of lurking at INTPc for two years and seeing how people respond to ESFJs that I don't want to give people ammunition to flame me. And I'd like to say I'm only speaking for myself. It's very important to me that other people realize that.

I probably am taking this very personal, but I highly resent the fact that ENFJs are often compared to everyone's favorite type to hate, ESFJs. I don't even understand where all the antipathy towards ESFJs comes from. I do understand that my personality is such that I create more positive interactions with people and while I may not often be a recipient of SJ "you're so weird," I do get that when I turn down Fe and turn up Ni. All the more reason for me to keep Fe up. Maybe even more than the INTP, an ENFJ is a social chameleon.

I like blending in with people, I wholeheartedly believe in "When in Rome..." It's not that I capitulate to dominate norms and mores, it's just that I feel like I can be more effective when I'm "inside." I'm completely obsessed with the idea of being average, looking average. People don't question you very much when you look, act, and talk just like them. You're able to earn their trust, not to break it, but to change things. I'm all about changing things.

Navigating the social jungle is the best fucking thing I do. And I hate to brag, but I do it extremely well. I hate sitting in this little cube I'm in all day. I can walk into a group of complete strangers and have everyone chit chatting like best friends in less that 30 mins. And yes, it may be superficial, but I don't care. I can organize people together and whip up activities to do in no time, I've been in job interviews where I had to put my interviewer at ease. I've talked myself out of some crazy intense situations (like being arrested), calmed irate customers and had them writing letters to management about how great a salesperson I am. I have a vision of how people can be, and I have no problem applying that where ever I go.

I have people projects that I work on and like Lookin and Elwin said I love for people to be passionate about something. Anything! I talk to people until I find out what it is. I hate apathy. I don't understand how people can go through life and not have anything they care about and be generally nonreactive. This may be completely un-PC, but I appreciate the fact that Islam extremists have found a cause they believe in enough that they're ready to die for it. That idea, believing in something you're willing to die for is very noble to me. It gives someone a purpose in life.

I believe I have a rich inner life, although I'm not in anybody's head so I don't know what they're thinking. I'm very observant about people, body language and microexpressions. Sometimes I wonder if I see stuff that's not really happening and I tend to second guess myself a lot. I try to be a supportive person, but I don't know how successful I am at that. My interpersonal relationships are very important and what gets me into the most trouble because I tend to press how I think my loved ones should be onto them. I'm trying to mitigate that.

I like vivid colors and things that are a little odd and quirky. I haven't turned on a TV in since 2004 (I'm quite proud of that) although I can't say I haven't watched snippets here and there. I have a problem with impulsiveness that I chalk up to my retarded Se and Ti.

That's all I can think of.

 

[Littlelostnf]

To be quite honest, I'm very reluctant to post anything about myself to revealing. It's not that I'm worried that anyone's going to show up at my front door, it's the effects of lurking at INTPc for two years and seeing how people respond to ESFJs that I don't want to give people ammunition to flame me. And I'd like to say I'm only speaking for myself. It's very important to me that other people realize that.

I probably am taking this very personal, but I highly resent the fact that ENFJs are often compared to everyone's favorite type to hate, ESFJs. I don't even understand where all the antipathy towards ESFJs comes from. I do understand that my personality is such that I create more positive interactions with people and while I may not often be a recipient of SJ "you're so weird," I do get that when I turn down Fe and turn up Ni. All the more reason for me to keep Fe up. Maybe even more than the INTP, an ENFJ is a social chameleon.

I like blending in with people, I wholeheartedly believe in "When in Rome..." It's not that I capitulate to dominate norms and mores, it's just that I feel like I can be more effective when I'm "inside." I'm completely obsessed with the idea of being average, looking average. People don't question you very much when you look, act, and talk just like them. You're able to earn their trust, not to break it, but to change things. I'm all about changing things.

Navigating the social jungle is the best fucking thing I do. And I hate to brag, but I do it extremely well. I hate sitting in this little cube I'm in all day. I can walk into a group of complete strangers and have everyone chit chatting like best friends in less that 30 mins. And yes, it may be superficial, but I don't care. I can organize people together and whip up activities to do in no time, I've been in job interviews where I had to put my interviewer at ease. I've talked myself out of some crazy intense situations (like being arrested), calmed irate customers and had them writing letters to management about how great a salesperson I am. I have a vision of how people can be, and I have no problem applying that where ever I go.

I have people projects that I work on and like Lookin and Elwin said I love for people to be passionate about something. Anything! I talk to people until I find out what it is. I hate apathy. I don't understand how people can go through life and not have anything they care about and be generally nonreactive. This may be completely un-PC, but I appreciate the fact that Islam extremists have found a cause they believe in enough that they're ready to die for it. That idea, believing in something you're willing to die for is very noble to me. It gives someone a purpose in life.

I believe I have a rich inner life, although I'm not in anybody's head so I don't know what they're thinking. I'm very observant about people, body language and microexpressions. Sometimes I wonder if I see stuff that's not really happening and I tend to second guess myself a lot. I try to be a supportive person, but I don't know how successful I am at that. My interpersonal relationships are very important and what gets me into the most trouble because I tend to press how I think my loved ones should be onto them. I'm trying to mitigate that.

I like vivid colors and things that are a little odd and quirky. I haven't turned on a TV in since 2004 (I'm quite proud of that) although I can't say I haven't watched snippets here and there. I have a problem with impulsiveness that I chalk up to my retarded Se and Ti.

That's all I can think of.

Much of the above applies to me...and a bit of what Lookin4 said also. I'm loathe to repeat the things that they said but I must stress two points. I too use to think INFJ's and ENFJ's were not that far apart either..as I've gotten older I see the dif. I'm def an E but my inner life would surprise most. I also get what Proteanmix is saying about the whole ESFJ/ENFJ comparisons. Sorry people we are different. I have many ESFJ's in my life and many that I love and appreciate...but I also tend to turn up the Ni which is my strongest function and turn down the Fe when I'm around an ESFJ...there's enough Fe going on there. Anyway...for as much as I like being an individual...it's wonderful hearing from the ENFJ's on this forum because many times they do speak what I feel/think and I find it refreshing to know that I'm not completely weird...(altho I secretly enjoy being the weird one in the bunch)

 

[Usehername]

Guys, keep it 'coming if you have any thoughts. I love figuring out ENFJs. Especially if you have any more "this might just be me, and not an ENFJ trait, but just in case..."
b/c who cares if it's just you, but it's a great quirky source of information if it's an ENFJ thing!

And, btw, maybe it's just that I'm an N, but even before Myers-Briggs entered my life, I could've slotted, with 100% accuracy, ENFJs on one side of teh room and ESFJs on the other.

I've always felt pulled toward ENFJs, I've always felt frustrated by ESFJs.


I don't think you guys are anything alike. Except your area is "people".

 

[Usehername]

Question:

As an INTJ, I have been directly observing ENFJs for their social skills; when I was much younger I had an awesome ENFJ teacher that I particularly liked and consciously paid attention to b/c I wanted to be able to do what she did around people. (At the time I didn't know anything about her being an ENFJ, but of the few people I've consciously studied, they were all ENFJs.)

I've got very good social skills now that I'm "older" (very early 20s). When I'm around people, I've always come across as extraverted. (I just spend way more time by myself.) And I've consciously been developing my "F" skills hte past few years.

So: I was wondering, do you think you could pick out an INTJ who was coming across as an ENFJ? Would you be able to tell that our "quirkiness" was of a different flavor?

That's one of my goals. To get so good at the "people" thing that people initially type me as ENFJ (until, of course, they sit down and talk with me and see the NT, how much little "natural" "F" I have (not that when I show "F" it's fake, just that it's consciously effortful) and how much time I spend alone.)


ALSO: If anyone flames an ENFJ in this board, I will personally kick his/her ass. So don't worry about saying anything that might get you flamed. They will not touch you Now, share.

 

[Lookin4theBestNU]

Hmmmm your last couple of posts are honestly making me wonder. I have reread these posts a couple of times and I'm still unclear on something. You want to learn to emulate ENFJs for what reason? This seems to be the closest to an explanation there is.

That's one of my goals. To get so good at the "people" thing that people initially type me as ENFJ (until, of course, they sit down and talk with me and see the NT, how much little "natural" "F" I have (not that when I show "F" it's fake, just that it's consciously effortful) and how much time I spend alone.)

If I am to sum this up properly I need feedback and apparently I'm missing something!!! You want to be typed initially as an ENFJ and later spring the fact that you are an NT on someone? Why would you want to start any relationship at all with people based on that? If you are wanting to learn 'people skills' to be better at work or dating all you need to do is practice. ENFJs generally have good intentions and seek others motivations. I am unclear of your motivation/interest in us. Please elaborate.

 

[Varelse]

ALSO: If anyone flames an ENFJ in this board, I will personally kick his/her ass. So don't worry about saying anything that might get you flamed. They will not touch you Now, share.

Heh...I concur. I like hearing from the ENFJs.

 

[substitute]

I don't understand ENFJs. But sometimes I think they are my favorite.

I know what you mean - though I think one of my reasons for not understanding them is that they so seldom DO talk about themselves. I know one who's a great listener - too great, for my comfort, in a way. Sometimes I feel a bit resentful towards him because I feel like he coaxes all my innermost stuff out of me, gets me telling him things I've never told others, and I share stuff with him so he knows so much on me, and yet he never opens up in return. It also gives me a bit of a complex, that he thinks I talk about myself too much when in fact, the only reason I'm talking half the time is to try to draw him out to talk about himself, but all he seems to want to do is talk about me, my problems, my life etc and offer advice. Which is great, but like I say, I'd like to be able to 'give back'. I feel uncomfortable about the one-sidedness of it all he sorta forces...

Dunno if anyone else gets that...

 

[Usehername]

Hmmmm your last couple of posts are honestly making me wonder. I have reread these posts a couple of times and I'm still unclear on something. You want to learn to emulate ENFJs for what reason? This seems to be the closest to an explanation there is. If I am to sum this up properly I need feedback and apparently I'm missing something!!! You want to be typed initially as an ENFJ and later spring the fact that you are an NT on someone? Why would you want to start any relationship at all with people based on that? If you are wanting to learn 'people skills' to be better at work or dating all you need to do is practice. ENFJs generally have good intentions and seek others motivations. I am unclear of your motivation/interest in us. Please elaborate.

Nah, I should've been more clear.

I don't want people to think I'm something I'm not... I just want someone who's just met me to be able to say to me, "you're an intj? look at your social skills! you're so warm and friendly and everyone feels comfortable around you". (not that we would be discussing myers-briggs.... but maybe now I'm being more clear.)

I've made it personally important to me that people are important to me... and thus I want to make people comfortable and like I am approachable, etc. (Which, when I'm not making conscious effort, sometimes I give off the opposite.)

I just want to make people feel more comfortable around me, I guess.
Which I think is a very ENFJ trait. A skill, actually, that I want to Master with a capital 'M' I was just wondering if you think it's theoretically possible that someone who isn't naturally gifted like that could learn to act with that ENFJ skill.

(I guess differentiating between the certain "skill" of the ENFJ and the ENFJ itself would be helpful.)

Also, that was kinda a side note from my original question. I am genuinely fascinated by ENFJs in general, aside from the skills that they have that I want to learn.

 

[Lookin4theBestNU]

I've made it personally important to me that people are important to me... and thus I want to make people comfortable and like I am approachable, etc. (Which, when I'm not making conscious effort, sometimes I give off the opposite.)

I just want to make people feel more comfortable around me, I guess.
Which I think is a very ENFJ trait. A skill, actually, that I want to Master with a capital 'M' I was just wondering if you think it's theoretically possible that someone who isn't naturally gifted like that could learn to act with that ENFJ skill.

(I guess differentiating between the certain "skill" of the ENFJ and the ENFJ itself would be helpful.)

Thank-you that is much more clear. I think it would be possible for an NT, even an introverted one, to make people feel more comfortable with practice. Separating the 'skill' from the ENFJ is not too difficult. I can go into a room of people some days and feel as though I am walking on air (more like positive feelings) in a sense. I like days like that .

I'm naturally inclined to scan my surroundings including people for what I see that is positive just below the surface. I think what draws people to me is that when I make such an observation, with total sincerity, I want to share it with them. You will rarely see me in a 'flattery mode' as that just feels manipulative to me. I will not say that I haven't practiced it because that would be a lie. I needed to know for myself if I could do it . I would say if you make habit of finding something that you quite genuinely admire/appreciate about someone and tell them you could see huge results. I would say though it might be difficult, at first, with practice you could become a person people want to share and be with. Be careful what you wish for is all I have to say . ENFJs rarely share on the negative side of this but there are some believe me. I think we just happen to be well-equipped to deal with it.

Sometimes I feel a bit resentful towards him because I feel like he coaxes all my innermost stuff out of me, gets me telling him things I've never told others, and I share stuff with him so he knows so much on me, and yet he never opens up in return. It also gives me a bit of a complex, that he thinks I talk about myself too much when in fact, the only reason I'm talking half the time is to try to draw him out to talk about himself, but all he seems to want to do is talk about me, my problems, my life etc and offer advice. Which is great, but like I say, I'd like to be able to 'give back'. I feel uncomfortable about the one-sidedness of it all he sorta forces...

I have had people share this same thing Substitute . I have read enough about ENFJs to know this can be an area where those in relationships with us can become uneasy. I have tried my own self-improvement plan to attempt to correct this. I find it hard, really hard, to reveal any of my innermost thoughts and feelings. I always want to 'be there' for the other person. I know what I look for in other people so I am a little paranoid. People have no idea what an ENFJ can 'get' from a simple statement-though every now and again we are wrong . I don't want to give away too much until I am ready and trust this person. However the cycle for me usually goes that I fall into a pattern after a time with someone and then my innermost being never gets to surface. This tends to be a trap for me. I desperately want to find someone to share with and I find someone I care about. The pattern will by then be set in my mind at least after I develop some trust (difficult as well). I generally end up thinking that it would be selfish to 'dump' all of my issues on them. Doesn't make sense does it? I have always had that feeling of being alone and I am frankly tired of it!! I am 'testing' on the internet letting some of this stuff out and it is pretty good so far. I don't know if it will transfer to RL or not but I hope it does someday-at least that's the plan.

*sorry if I unintentionally made any generalizations other ENFJs I tried to keep it personal*

 

[proteanmix]

I know what you mean - though I think one of my reasons for not understanding them is that they so seldom DO talk about themselves. I know one who's a great listener - too great, for my comfort, in a way. Sometimes I feel a bit resentful towards him because I feel like he coaxes all my innermost stuff out of me, gets me telling him things I've never told others, and I share stuff with him so he knows so much on me, and yet he never opens up in return. It also gives me a bit of a complex, that he thinks I talk about myself too much when in fact, the only reason I'm talking half the time is to try to draw him out to talk about himself, but all he seems to want to do is talk about me, my problems, my life etc and offer advice. Which is great, but like I say, I'd like to be able to 'give back'. I feel uncomfortable about the one-sidedness of it all he sorta forces...

Dunno if anyone else gets that...

I've thought about this some more and while I have people I'm comfortable talking about my personal life with, I usually don't get the level of feedback I give to others when I talk about myself. It makes me reluctant to say anything because I try to listen and give solutions to any issues people are having and I want the same in return. I know I'm difficult to talk to if you want me to talk about myself which is why I don't like to do it.

It's not like I don't talk about myself to other people it's that I throw meaty tidbits about myself wrapped in silliness and I wonder if the person will take the bait. Most people don't so I don't continue. I guess want I want is for people to do what I do, think there's something more in what I said and start trying to figure out what it is. I can see how people can think ENFJs are superficial because I try to be a lighthearted person. I don't want to be around people that depress me and drag me down so I put out upbeat vibes. I've gotten into heated arguments with family members and then gone to work like nothing happened, plastered a smile on my face and faked it the whole day. I often wish someone could just tell that I'm not doing OK and ask me what's going on.

So maybe with your ENFJ, you're talking and he's just listening. It's a good strategy, talk about yourself and make the other person comfortable so they'll talk about themselves. I do it and it works, but maybe since an ENFJ does it, they're hipper to it and not as likely to fall for it. I say just be more observant of his moods and go from there.

 

[proteanmix]

Wow Lookin, we posted nearly the exact thing and I hadn't even seen yours yet.

 

[substitute]

I've thought about this some more and while I have people I'm comfortable talking about my personal life with, I usually don't get the level of feedback I give to others when I talk about myself. It makes me reluctant to say anything because I try to listen and give solutions to any issues people are having and I want the same in return. I know I'm difficult to talk to if you want me to talk about myself which is why I don't like to do it.

But I like doing that too, and this guy's seen me doing it with loads of other people, and I do it too with the non-personal stuff he tells me. I do want to listen and I am genuinely interested, and I do try to ask him leading questions that I think you'd have to be the most clueless person ever, to not get that I'm hinting that I want them to open up or give me their opinion. But he still doesn't seem to bite.

It's not like I don't talk about myself to other people it's that I throw meaty tidbits about myself wrapped in silliness and I wonder if the person will take the bait. Most people don't so I don't continue. I guess want I want is for people to do what I do, think there's something more in what I said and start trying to figure out what it is.

Yeah I see what you're saying, I sorta do the same thing in some ways. A lot of the time I can clearly see that there's more to what he's saying than the words alone, and I've often got some ideas as to what it might be, and I want to discuss it. However, since he's established this image of a guy who doesn't talk about himself, I hesitate to ask or pick up verbally on it, because I figure he doesn't want to talk about it. I'm worried about him thinking I'm prying or poking my nose in his business or something.

I can see how people can think ENFJs are superficial because I try to be a lighthearted person. I don't want to be around people that depress me and drag me down so I put out upbeat vibes.

Trouble is, the guy I know, I think the reason he does this is more because he thinks other people will be upset or brought down if he talks about his problems, not that he himself finds it depressing. What I mean is that the source of his feeling of being 'dragged down' if he talks about his problems, is that he believes it will drag others down. I've tried 'til blue in the face to get him to understand that it's NOT a burden to me, and it's actually quite fascinating to me, stimulating and refreshing to listen to a thoughtful person for a change. But again, no success.

I've gotten into heated arguments with family members and then gone to work like nothing happened, plastered a smile on my face and faked it the whole day. I often wish someone could just tell that I'm not doing OK and ask me what's going on.

Like I say, with my ENFJ, I can tell. But I don't ask because he makes it look like he doesn't want me to. And also, I start to resent this idea that it's my job to dig it out of him all the time against his childish resistance (what, is he testing me? wanting me to prove myself worthy?), as if he thinks it's for my benefit that I do it, as opposed to caring about him and it being for his good.

So maybe with your ENFJ, you're talking and he's just listening.

But that's not what I want. I don't want him to just listen. I want him to TALK BACK. If I wanted to just sit and talk I'd stand in front of a mirror and save the money I spent on his drink!!

It's a good strategy, talk about yourself and make the other person comfortable so they'll talk about themselves. I do it and it works, but maybe since an ENFJ does it, they're hipper to it and not as likely to fall for it. I say just be more observant of his moods and go from there.

But I'm not thinking like that at all. I'm not thinking, talk about myself to make them feel comfortable. I'm thinking: talk about myself so they know I'm cool with talking about this kind of thing with them, so they figure it's cool to talk about themselves too. Often I'm not just talking about myself, but all sorts of stuff - just trying to go through as many areas of thought and knowledge or humour or whatever, as I can come up with in the hope that one of them might spark his interest and get him talking. But instead, it just makes me feel like an awful chatterbox, and I go away feeling really bad about myself, like I'm the most boring person ever, and even trying my hardest to get along with this guy and get him interested, he just sat there looking as though he was 'suffering in silence' or something.

Sometimes when I go to lunch with him, I wonder why the hell he wants to meet up with me, and get a complex like he feels sorry for me or something, and I spend hours afterwards beating myself up over what seems like my horrendous social skills (until I see someone else - anyone else - and realise that it's just him). So if his aim is to make me feel comfortable or better, he failed, dammit!

Well, this is how he was in earlier days - well, for about the first 2 years that I knew him. He's not so much like it now, he's opened up a little bit, but compared to other people I've known for the same amount of time, I feel like I hardly know him, and it upsets me cos I really respect him and I feel like he just doesn't think I'm cool enough or whatever, for him to want me to be one of his close friends.

 

[proteanmix]

Yeah I see what you're saying, I sorta do the same thing in some ways. A lot of the time I can clearly see that there's more to what he's saying than the words alone, and I've often got some ideas as to what it might be, and I want to discuss it. However, since he's established this image of a guy who doesn't talk about himself, I hesitate to ask or pick up verbally on it, because I figure he doesn't want to talk about it. I'm worried about him thinking I'm prying or poking my nose in his business or something.

Trouble is, the guy I know, I think the reason he does this is more because he thinks other people will be upset or brought down if he talks about his problems, not that he himself finds it depressing. What I mean is that the source of his feeling of being 'dragged down' if he talks about his problems, is that he believes it will drag others down. I've tried 'til blue in the face to get him to understand that it's NOT a burden to me, and it's actually quite fascinating to me, stimulating and refreshing to listen to a thoughtful person for a change. But again, no success.

If you're trying as hard as you say you are, then you've gone a lot further than I would. All I can say about myself is I truly don't like to speak about my personal matters. Two weeks ago my mother was in the hospital and I missed work for a few days. I had to tell my boss something so I gave her an abbreviated version of the story. Every day she asked me how is your mother doing and it just felt invasive. Then I wonder if this is how people feel when I start asking questions? So I oscillate between not wanting to offend the other person with personal questions because I know how I react to them, and genuinely wanting to know about the other person and trying to figure out ways to make a connection without being pushy.

And then add some trust issues because when you talk to people the way I have and hear the rotten stuff they do, I have a serious complex about revealing information.

But that's not what I want. I don't want him to just listen. I want him to TALK BACK. If I wanted to just sit and talk I'd stand in front of a mirror and save the money I spent on his drink!!

LOL

Sometimes when I go to lunch with him, I wonder why the hell he wants to meet up with me, and get a complex like he feels sorry for me or something, and I spend hours afterwards beating myself up over what seems like my horrendous social skills (until I see someone else - anyone else - and realise that it's just him). So if his aim is to make me feel comfortable or better, he failed, dammit!

Well, this is how he was in earlier days - well, for about the first 2 years that I knew him. He's not so much like it now, he's opened up a little bit, but compared to other people I've known for the same amount of time, I feel like I hardly know him, and it upsets me cos I really respect him and I feel like he just doesn't think I'm cool enough or whatever, for him to want me to be one of his close friends.

If you sincerely want to broaden your relationship with this person, then I'd ask straight out. I appreciate when people are up front with me because it relieves a lot of the tension I've been feeling about a relationship I'm unsure of. Is he inviting you out any places with him outside of work? Although I tend to hang out with coworkers if they ask me to during work hours, I don't spend my personal time with people I'm not interested in becoming friends with. How I "make friends" with someone is I ask them if they want to do something with me or I go hang out with them. I like to spend one-on-one time with them and not be with a bunch of people. When I'm with a group, my attention is spread thin and I don't concentrate on the individual the way I'd like to. When we have some time to ourselves I ask them questions to see where their head is at and see if I want to disclose more info. I'm basically trying to lay a foundation for a friendship/relationship. Even though I hang out with different people, I don't try to make friends out of them.

I tend to be more assertive when I want a person to be my friend (if they want to also I'm not a jerk forcing my friendship off on people). I'm really not used to being pursued by someone who wants to be my friend. This may be throwing your ENFJ friend off a little, I don't know.

Maybe if the other ENFJs want to chime in about how they'd react you'd get more informative responses.

Do any other people have any ENFJ experiences they want to share?

 

[Brendan]

(edit) As the previous title seems to have been too specific...

All I really want is to understand the ENFJ motivations and inner life. Any input, example, thought in reference to that would be mightily appreciated.


What really pulls you toward someone? What kinds of things affect your soul? What kinds of behavior/personalities bug you?

I don't understand ENFJs. But sometimes I think they are my favorite.

My blog.